Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    It really depends on the plot. If the Sith reappear the audience will demand some answers how that could be as the Sith were thought extinct after ROTJ. Anakin could be the person to deliver those answers (secret imperial genetics project, carbonite Sith, Palpatine fathered a son/daughter, Plagueis, etc.).
  2. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    That's true [face_thinking] It's really a plot issue. I guess what I fear is that they'll do what the EU has done so many times already and throw in a lot of basically good stuff but into the wrong point of timeline. Like Luke doing his first man-to-man killing in CoO or Artoo not revealing a thing abut L&L's past before DNT!
  3. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    This is where the PT legacy really causes aggro, why? Because Anakin even when he was good, wasn't exactly all that good! He was more a pyromaniac allowed to throw petrol around and an infinite supply of matches and then when he inevitably went up in flames it was: Damn, never saw that coming!


    Easy fix:

    "You're extinct!"
    "Many have thought that! All of them were wrong!"
    Last edited by Jedi Ben, Mar 25, 2013
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  4. Skaddix Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2012
    star 4
    Come on all they have to do is take a trip to Korriban. You cannot walk a mile on that planet without tripping on a Holocron. Or they could loot an old Palpatine Lab.
  5. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

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    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Sure, that would also work. But if it is possible to bring some father-son interaction into play I'm still all for it.

    That is a bit ... lame.
  6. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Oh, it's cheesy, corney, hokey... but very SW!
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  7. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

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  8. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    I think a good way for there to be some relevant bonding between Luke and Anakin would be in the potential cgi/animated movies/series instead of Episode 7. That way they could have a young Luke after ROTJ legitimately learn some things from his father, as well as bond with his father. Actually it would be nice if it was Anakin instead of just Obi-wan be the only one to communicate with him POST ROTJ or how about Yoda, Obi-wan, Mace and Qui-Gonn too ? As others mention there are other ways to explain away the new threat, I think after the prequels and the Clone Wars, Episode 7 needs to shift the focus on the OT characters and the new generation.


    I feel the same way, of course I want Mara, Luke's defeat of Palpatine Reborn, the Jedi Order, Mindor, SOTE, to be canon. But at this point I'm willing to take a cold reboot, or more likely what the TCW show did to the continuity of the books and comics.


    execution has been probably the most prevalent issue since post NJO.

    as JB mentions the handling of POST DE, instead of it being a great victory it was view as a defeat.....I'm sorry did people forget that Luke defeated Palps in one on one combat and Luke and Leia destroy him and his ship through the power of the LS. Also I would love for Luke himself to point out that he was being mind controlled, subtly at first but during his first battle with Palps he was fully under his sway. The fact that he hasn't corrected people in the other books is another reason why fans feel like he fell.


    I find it interesting that Lando knew Luke's con but Han legitimately fell for it. Luke conned Han ;)


    perhaps the Force itself was nudging Luke to make the decision to pretend to follow Palpatine in the first place, that this was the only path. We lacked Luke's POV during his thoughts when coming up with the idea but I think Luke followed his instincts.


    Traviss wrote it as a vengeance killing when in reality it could have been Luke simply dispatching a sith. Traviss deliberately wrote it in shades of grey instead of black and white, and the fact that Del-Rey allow that and Mara's death means they should get the boot :mad:

    really ??!?!? why ? I get sick of ambiguous visions that lead nowhere. I do agree he likes to paint Luke as dark even when Luke isn't doing anything dark.

    much agreed, I feel we all need a change of focus as TCW continued more of Anakin's story. Time to put the perspective on Luke and his kids.

    nope not at all, and it's really not hard as Luke is the traditional straight man optimistic hero. Same goes for Superman and Captain America, sure they all have differences but when you get down to their core character, they're pure good people fighting evil, also they have great assertive, strong, female love interests. How KJA misinterpret Luke from OT....I won't ever figure out.

    exactly!

    Sadly though Travis handle the execution in a very ambiguous way. It was different shades of grey instead of black and white.
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Mar 25, 2013
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  9. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    That would be great! :)
  10. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Darth_Pevra:
    I would think that if Luke would have gotten some visits from Anakin that they would have occurred soon after RotJ rather than 30 + years later, which is probably when the ST will take place.


    I think this is something that would have taken place between the OT and the ST, not at the time of the, which is so many years later. Maybe we'll get a TV series or a book series that will include what you suggest some day. But I would rather not see that in the ST.


    This would be about the only scenerio that might be possible. Still, we'd have a young Anakin with a much older Luke, and that would just take me out of the story, I think.








    kataja:

    That's sort of what I think too. I think if Luke and Anakin were to interact and discuss the Jedi, the Sith, etc., that it would take place way before the beginning of the ST.



    But see, I think that makes it even worse. Luke didn't kill her in an unthinking, grief-filled moment. He was as cool as a cucumber. He knew exactly what he was doing. He wasn't killing Lumiya because she was a dangerous threat to the galaxy or because of all the terrible crimes she had committed and would likely commit again. It was far more personal. Luke CHOSE to kill her and to kill her himself because she had taken Mara from him. That's a vengeance killing as far as I'm concerned.


    It bothers me that the authors chose to write Luke so terribly out -of-character.... like his villainous father who did the same thing in similar circumstances.... just so their twin duel could go forward. That was throwing Luke under the bus for the sake of the plot, and that really bothered me. Plus, I rather suspect that Traviss very much enjoyed writing Luke Skywalker, the head honcho of the Jedi Order, as doing something so awful and so wrong because she truly hates the Jedi.

    There were many other ways that the authors could have had Jacen and Jaina face off in the twin duel that wouldn't have degraded and diminished Luke in the process and made him look so bad. I'm very annoyed that they chose to have their plot go forward by doing it in the worst way possible for Luke. It was bad enough that Luke lost Mara in Sacrifice. He shouldn't have lost his way morally as well, in my opinion.







    Jedi Ben:
    I agree about that.








    Skaddix:
    Great points, S!



    More later....
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  11. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Wait, there was a cold-blooded killing and it involved the force? Shouldn't this have put him straight on dark side road? In ROTJ it was implied that even killing Vader would be enough to taint him forever.
  12. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    he didn't kill with emotion..but the author wrote it in shades of grey rather than black and white. Luke faced Lumiya two times before, and she escaped from both scenarios. Lumiya turn out not to be Mara's murderer. From there he was "tainted" and he couldn't face Jacen for fear of falling after he defeated him. That was the "best" idea the publishers came up with to hold back Luke from beating Jacen which was the only outcome that could have happen in the series. Even though Luke defeated him four times during the course of the series. Jaina gets to face her brother which I'm all for, but they shouldn't ruin Luke's character for her character to rise. The basic excuse of Luke being "too powerful" and then hindering him by the plot was just terrible. They couldn't have given Luke oh I dunno more enemies to fight to keep him occupied from fighting Jacen, despite there being an ongoing Civil War going on that gets resolved in the background. :rolleyes:

    If you can bear with the entirety of NJO, LotF will kill any hope you have for the EU.
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Mar 26, 2013
  13. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    So FOTJ then kicks the corpse?
  14. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    not only that but it condemns your Force spirit to watching the Star Wars Holiday special for all eternity [face_devil]
  15. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    MasterSkywalker:
    I agree. I also agree that Episode 7 should focus on the OT character and the next generation.


    Apparently that didn't make much of an impression on many people.


    But did Lando know that it was Luke who was purposely causing the Imperials to lose?


    Maybe I would have liked DE better if we could have gotten the DE story from Luke's POV and could have been privy to his thoughts and motivations.

    Exactly! I would have had no problem with Luke dispatching a Sith because she was a danger to the galaxy and because of the crimes she had committed. It was because Luke killed her for a personal reason that I strongly object to the way that the author chose to do this. It was done in a way that hurt Luke the most, in my opinion.

    I have no idea why Denning wrote Luke that way. Like you, I too hate ambiguous visions that go nowhere, and hints of darkness about Luke for no reason.

    Exactly!

    That's definitely what *I* think!

    Yes! It's simple! No rocket science is involved!








    Darth_Pevra:
    Well, it seemed to me that Luke's killing of Lumiya was a cold-blooded vengeance killing. It was written very poorly, in my opinion. I have been ranting about this ever since I read Sacrifice. I truly think it was the worst thing that Luke ever did in his entire life. :(:mad: It was written by Karen Travis, who is known as a Jedi hater. She has admitted to cheering in the theater when the Jedi were killed during Order 66 in RotS. She must have loved writing Luke doing something so questionable.
    :(:mad:
  16. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    right I think Anakin's portion of the story has ended.

    and that's the biggest failing of earlier EU continuity.

    "General Calrissan thinks that Commander Skywalker is doing something to sabotage their systems." -DE

    right that would have a gone a long way of seeing Luke's inner thoughts and the reasoning behind the decsions.

    the fact that Traviss loved the fact jedi died in ROTS, means she should NOT be allowed to work with any jedi characters. Despite how separated she felt her biasis was from her writing it's pretty obvious that she has an aversion to all Force wielders when reading ANY of her books.
  17. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    @ MasterSkywalker86

    I read the NJO mostly because I want to know what happens with the Skywalker family. The war itself I find pretty boring because it is always the same. Vong want to destroy a planet, NR has to keep them from it.

    What really irritates me now is how fearful the Jedi are of the force. Yes, afraid. So afraid are they that some even won't use it ... in the middle of a war! They chose the worst of times to deal with ideological problems.

    Ugh, that sounds real bad.
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  18. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Um, why do you think Luke didn't kill her because she was a threat to the galaxy? He had already decided long time ago that he'd have to kill her. I my mind, that desicion was the one was foremost in his head when he went after Lumiya. Luke Skywalker would never allow himself to kill for vengeance. But even he could be deluded into a complicated situation where he would think he was more in control than he was.

    I'm not claiming it was handled well, far from it. As MS states, the scene was annoyingly grey! But retain my opinion that it wasn't as bad as you see it. And Luke was nothing like his father, even here. He didn't go ballistic with rage. He didn't kill innocents. He didn't kill anyone who he hadn't judged long ago he had to kill. It was simply that in the kill, he couldn't keep his personal emotions out.


    I read the EU for the same reasons. Well, mainly Luke [face_blush] And the same thing annoyed me to no end! A great misunderstanding, started by Zahn! :mad:
  19. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    luke fans need to go over to the new thread on powerful force users. There is some luke thrashing going on there. A couple people seem to think Luke is not the most powerful, and that even Krayt was shown as more powerful in Apocalypse. I disagree. Luke is the most powerful force user among Jedi and Sith ever. He has the full potential of Anakin. Krayt was not focused on by Abeloth to me, which is why he did not get as injured. I don't think he is more powerful than luke.
  20. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    She tends to write Dooku and Ventress as sympathetically as she can make them, in The Clone Wars. And Djinn Altis & other unorthodox Jedi in No Prisoners.

    It's only the mainstream Jedi Order she disliked.
  21. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Of course Luke's the most powerful. ;) But I don't have the energy to quarrell about most Force Powers, the highest Midicholrian count - or the biggest... [face_shhh] I don't even go there :p (sorry...)

    Besides, how do you do those maths anyway?
  22. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I find these discussions increasingly tiresome. I think Luke is a very powerful Jedi, more powerful than Yoda or any other movie Jedi, but if others rate their favorite Gary Stu characters higher I'm not interested in battling it out.

    What annoys me as well is the whole suited Vader < ROTS Vader discussion when in the movies suited Vader kicks ass (while using force techniques Anakin has never used) and kills mother******* Palpatine with one hand.
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  23. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Eh? Anakin used TK and choke.
  24. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    delete
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Mar 28, 2013
  25. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    delete
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Mar 28, 2013
  26. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    delete
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Mar 28, 2013
  27. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

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    May 21, 2008
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    Yes, and suited Vader uses those masterfully plus telepathy, danger detection (on DS I) and some sort of force whirlwind on Bespin.

    Anakin on the other hand stumbled into an energy trap and couldn't detect OBW in a ship that was standing right in front of him.