Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Yes, I actually think it's from there. :) And Vader is father in dutch - plus it's close to latin's vadere - to go = a clue to (sky)walker.

    @MasterSkywalker86 - yeah I guess. I don't know how much we need that book - but I'm sure it will sell anyway. I've found myself buying even SW books I've decided not to, those few times I find a SW book surprising places. I guess I just feel I want to encourage the bookshops to take them in. [face_blush] But now we know that the news that Disney's shutting down the release of all SW products until the ST http://clubjade.net/, was a 1. april's fool we can all breathe again and happily go on buying. :D I couldn't live for long without Luke!
  2. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I always thought that Vader comes from (in)vader. Pretty fitting, huh? ;)
    In the first draft of Star Wars, Vader was not Lukes father by the way. He was just some imperial General and Kane Starkiller was the Cyborg Jedi.
    MasterSkywalker86 likes this.
  3. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    The day they stop selling SW merchandise is the day I cease to exist....lol
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  4. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    Ooh, I love Luke Skywalker! :)

    ...

    I'm back... kinda. ;) I had an insane idea to send Luke to Equestria to train under Celestia and Luna. :D
    MasterSkywalker86 likes this.
  5. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    I didn't know you were a brony RK :p
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  6. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    I have distinct memories of watching the original MLP. :D And yes, I'm a brony.
    kataja likes this.
  7. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    First of all, Striker, it's good to have you back ! Welcome! :)


    Darth_Pevra:
    Exactly!!!!! And look at the risk Luke was willing to take when he was even less experienced, going to face Vader and the Emperor, and then, later, going to Byss to try to defeat the Emperor from behind enemy lines. If he was willing to risk all both of those times, it just seems ridiculous that when the galaxy was being overrun with invaders and countless people were dying, that Luke would choose to do nothing for a long while because he feared some Jedi might fall to the darkside. So he would rather that everyone in the galaxy be killed or enslaved rather than risk some Jedi falling?







    Jedi Ben:
    That's what I would like to know. There had to be a better way than to just let the Vong take over the galaxy and kill and enslave the populace. Why shouldn't the Jedi be allowed to defend others? What does it matter that they couldn't sense the Vong through the Force. It was annoying that Luke was on the wrong side of that debate while Kyp wanted to act.

    What *IS* that new avatar of yours, JB???








    Tim Battershell:
    While I understand and sympathize that Luke didn't want to kill off all of the Vong, I think his duty as a Jedi was to protect and defend the people of the galaxy against the aggressors. If the YV wouldn't give up, so be it. Why allow them to kill or enslave every member of a galaxy instead. The onus was on the YV, not the Jedi, in my opinion.

    See, I don't really understand why that was really an issue. As far as I'm concerned, the fact that the YV were killing and enslaving people and were destroying the ecology of planets was the real problem. They needed to be stopped, whether or not they registered in the Force.

    But the Yuuzhan Vong WERE the aggressors. Simply by invading the galaxy; taking over worlds; and killing countless people means that by standing against them, the Jedi *were* defending the galaxy and its people. As you said, there were really very few Jedi to oppose the YV, so sometimes the best defense is a strong offense. Why couldn't the Jedi destroy that growing shipyard on Belkedan, for example? By doing so, they would have been saving countless people from being killed by future living vessels, and they would have really caused the Vong a big blow early in the campaign, way before they became so entrenched in the galaxy.

    Welcome back to you too, by the way, TB!







    Jedi Ben:
    That's a great point, JB!







    kataja:
    I never really understood why that mattered either. If anything, it just made them harder to defeat, as a Jedi wouldn't be able to sense when one was nearby.


    Yes! As I said, sometimes the best defense is a strong offense, and since the Jedi didn't start this war and were protecting the people and the galaxy against the invading aggressors, they were DEFENDING. And Luke's Jedi Order WAS very much outnumbered too.


    More another time....
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  8. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Imo the NJO so far (reading book 7) includes a lot of navel gazing by the Jedi when they shouldn't. Jacen is the worst culprit because he wouldn't even use the force in the midst of intergalactic war and only did because his mother was in danger. It seems that to the Jedi of the time their own spiritual oneness is more important than the fate of the galaxy which comes across supremely self-centered and arrogant. It doesn't surprise me that Jacen, who embraces this viewpoint (and also comes across like a prick with low self esteem who bullies his brother) would fall to the dark side.

    I much prefer Kyp Durrons and Anakin Solos position. By the way, Anakin reminds me much of Luke and is by far the most likable Solo kid. It seems like a waste he had to die and not arrogant Jacen or boring Jaina.
  9. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    I have to agree. Both Jacen and the Order come off very badly, I think. I know the 'reasons' are that they wanted to build up tension and thus thought they needed reasons why the Jedi wouldn't figth the Vong full force for a start - but it just doesn't work out. And if I was wicked I' dsay that Luke seems more interested in cuddling Mara than defend the galaxy o_O - which is so NOT Luke that of course it's wrong. I think another reason is that for a start, they adapted Zahn's idea that Force-use was dangerous, somehow - and if that's the case, it was a very bad idea too.

    And Jacen, yeah... I guess that's why I grew tired over Force Heretic - Jacen was so lame in the start - and suddenly he was like the new hope or something?
  10. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    It is Secret Agent POYO!

    [IMG]

    Once, POYO! was taken out by enemy fire, but medical science revived him!

    [IMG]

    He was then outfitted with various gadgets including a Mach 5-capable engine:

    [IMG]

    And still looks good in a tux!

    [IMG]

    More seriously, the character is in the comic series Chew, a quite demented tale of food, conspiracies, shadow agencies, law enforcement, families and superhuman food-based powers. It is easily one of the craziest and most absurd tales I've ever read but an absolute hoot that never takes itself too seriously. Not for kids though!

    Without giving it away as to how and why Jacen does sort himself out quite ncely in TUF and after that point whether he should fall to the dark side in LOTF comes down to whether you view what he experiences in TUF in a positive or negative light.

    I think Jacen's arc was a missed opportunity to do something different - what happens if you're brought up in a family of warriors but you just aren't cut out for it? That you don't have the mindset or inclination to be able to do it? The logical answer is to find something you can do. It's why I like the Jacen plot in Balance Point. There Jacen admits he isn't suited to a frontline role, that he is a liability - would have been better if he'd realised this before killing 250,000 Hapans but let's take what we can get - but is still contributing to the war effort, just not in a combat role. Jaina, in contrast, is so gung-ho and violent as to be near-psychotic - save for Anakin, neither Solo kid exactly is a poster child for emotion stability.
    instantdeath likes this.
  11. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Jaina ... is a weird Jedi, if she even deserves that moniker. I thought to use the force you must be calm and collected, like Yoda said, "in peace". So what force does she use? The dark side?

    On the other hand, I shouldn't fault the NJO too much for that inconsistent Jedi behavior. In all kinds of EU material you see angry and emotionally labile Jedi running around using the force like it is a mere tool.

    I'm all for including some conflict, even inside the Jedi order. It's normal, even healthy. I would be more worried for the order if they never butted heads. But so far it has been handled in such a plump way...
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Apr 2, 2013
  12. SiouxFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2012
    star 3
    Jacen is a great character study of what happens to people who try to take a pacifist stance in a war-time society. This is just as true in post-9/11 America as it is the EU. There were many people who opposed our wars in the mid-East and were treated with outright hostility and labeled as akin to being traitors. Ditto our treatment of Jacen in the early stages of the Vong war. Did the author's overdue it? Yes. Were Jacen's main arguments valid? I believe they were. Was there a better way? We know NOW that there wasn't, but we didn't know that THEN, nor did Jacen.

    To echo an argument from ages ago, what the hell were Anakin and Jacen doing on Centerpoint? Where was the 'adult' leadership? We are placing the fate of the Corellia on TWO teenagers? Anakin was, what, 16? Would you want YOUR 16-year-old son to be responsible for the fate of billions? We're okay with Anakin wiping out untold millions of Vong? Of course, because Anakin was DOING something. Was it right?
  13. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    Ah, the New Republic and Jedi during the Vong invasion. I'd comment, but it'd be a strong of F-bombs. And I also gave away my entire NJO collection a long time ago. As for Jacen in the NJO, it's not Jacen. It's a clone suffering from clone degradation. Pardon me while... kill him.
    MasterSkywalker86 likes this.
  14. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    The difference between the mid-east conflict, if you want to drag real life into it, is that the Vong war is an invasion of the own "home country". Opposing the defense against an invading force (especially as genocidal as the Vong) is so stupid I almost can't comprehend it. If we want to look for real life comparisons, it's better to compare with the invasion of Poland by the Third Reich.

    I mean, what else could you do against an invading force that kills the diplomatic envoys you send to them other than fight back? Plant flowers?
  15. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Ironically RK I more or less stop buying SW books for the last 7 years....I follow your path :p Legacy era is like the best deterrent to Luke fans :rolleyes: and TUF is the only NJO book I like. Although Invasion does a good bit of restoring Luke's character.
  16. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    Excellent, my young apprentice. Soon the rebellion will be-

    ...

    Wait, never mind! :p
  17. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Yeah that ship had pretty much set sailed and exploded into a million little bits as wildfire devours the remains. Not many of us buy books...the last Star Wars book purchase I made was my repurchase of DE.
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Apr 2, 2013
  18. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    My last purchase was Shadows of Mindor in 2008 and I might pick up Scoundrels.
    MasterSkywalker86 likes this.
  19. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Mindor was probably the best purchase of the decade for EU and Luke fans. :cool: Seriously why couldn't they make that into a series ????????
    RK_Striker_JK_5 likes this.
  20. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    JediMatteus:
    Which isn't much for about 18 books, is it? Besides, was setting up the Jedi Council really all that important during a time when the galaxy was being invaded by hordes or Yuuzhan Vong? I think Luke's time and focus could have been better spent in an era of constant emergency.








    Jedi Ben:
    Exactly!

    And you're right that the Jedi and the NR should have been working together from the beginning. When there is an invasion of the galaxy, you would think that everyone would come together to oppose the invaders. The Yuuzhan Vong should have been enough of a problem. I don't think we should have also had the Jedi and the NR at odds, not to mention a rift within the Jedi Order itself. Definitely overkill in the problem department, in my opinion.









    MasterSkywalker86:
    Exactly right!


    Okay, that sort of works, I guess. I had forgotten that JB had suggested that.

    Yes, that *is* sad. I liked the way that Luke was written in the Invasion series. It's too bad that we didn't get more scenes with Luke before the series was ended.

    You're right!







    Jedi Ben:
    :) Thanks for sharing! It's cool that Luke got first mention! Luke is certainly a far better hero for a kid to have than a lot of the so-called "heroes" like some of the sports figures and musical personalities of the past and today who were/are often high on drugs and doing other not-so-heroic things in their personal lives or like Anakin Skywalker, who isn't exactly a great example for kids..

    It's nice that people still think of Luke.







    Jedi Ben:
    And Luke often was willing to sacrifice himself and to risk all for others. That's pretty heroic, I'd say. As you said, Luke did this aboard Death star II, but he was willing to do it in TESB as well, when he was willing to die rather than join the evil Vader. He was willing to risk all to save Han and Leia too. And, we know that in DE Luke certainly took a tremendous risk to try to save the galaxy and everyone in it. Even in ANH, Luke showed this willingness to sacrifice himself, joining in the Death Star battle even though it was likely a suicide run.


    EXACTLY!



    More tomorrow!
  21. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    @Jedi Ben Chew has been on my "to read" list for some time. You've elevated it to the point where I have to physically restrain myself from buying it right now.
  22. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 5
    Jaina ... is a weird Jedi, if she even deserves that moniker. I thought to use the force you must be calm and collected, like Yoda said, "in peace". So what force does she use? The dark side?

    Kyp was just as bad or worse in the NJO series/


    Luke was active in most of the books, Child. You are grossly being over dramatic. He was not as active in the first half of the series but was active in the second half. You could say that he was quite active in the two Allston books where he has to deal with Nyax. He was active with the great river later on, and did quite a few star fighter battles in the mid- late njo.He was busy finding sekot in the late series, and of course was the cenetrpiece in TUF.
  23. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Also, remember the KOTOR backstory - Revan originally went to fight the Mandalorians without permission because the Jedi Council either didn't think it their business to get involved or because they were still recruiting/training replacements for casualties of the Exar Kun war.

    Hesitancy to get stuck straight in in both cases?
  24. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    The problem is the timeline, 1st half = 2-2.5 years! I can buy the notion of investigating the enemy, of being cautious in their first encounters, but not to the extent NJO took it.

    As for Kyp, NJO royally shafted the character. Salvatore practically admitted he stuck Kyp in a box marked 'Rogue Jedi' because he didn't really know the character at all! Kyp's crime in VP? Law enforcement! His crime in EOV2? He hurt the Vong badly bu blowing up their shipyard at Sernpidal, yep, that's terrible.

    Those were just the images I could post here ID, they're quite restrained! :D

    And that's where the realistic aspect collides head-on with the fantastic and 'oh, but we must do something heroic with the next generation and Luke was only 18 in ANH' aspects.

    If anything the US response to 09/11 only makes the truly crazy level of restraint demonstrated by NR and Jedi for the first 2 years of the Vong even more of a storybreaker for me. The realistic response? Would have been the Bothan ar'krai and the post-09/11 in the real world got pretty close to that. Would that have been correct? Well, there the two diverge - for the Vong, waging total war, with no quarter asked for or given, it probably would have been - but I think SW EU readers don't want to really read about that. For post-09/11, very different style of warfare, so no, a smarter, more surgical attitude and response was needed.
    Darth_Pevra likes this.
  25. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Comparing 9/11 response with the Vong war is nonsense imo. Like I said, one is defending from an invasion, the other is ... well, complicated.

    Yes, I noticed his attitude. So far I'm not sure however if it's just his "face of command" or if he is really that aggressive. He definitely comes across like someone who flirts with the dark side.

    Doesn't change however that I find his arguments better than Lukes. Even darksiders can be right sometimes.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Apr 3, 2013
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