Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
  2. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
  3. dewback_rancher Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2009
    star 4
    "Badass" is too much of an understatement, RK.

    That is Luke Skywalker.
    ^Better. :p
  4. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Darth_Pevra:
    I hope you're right that Luke will get his turn to be a main character in the SW comic.








    kataja:
    But posters can be misleading... And wasn't the lightsaber in the early posters blue?



    While I agree that characterization is paramount, I do want to see Luke at the center of the story sometimes, at least. I don't mind that he isn't the major focus character ALL the time, but I think Luke deserves to have his fair share of screentime/focus too.

    I guess I don't understand why they wouldn't be friends right from the beginning? They did, after all, share in an experience during the Death Star run in which they saved one another's lives. That in itself should have forged a bond between them.

    I really, really *do* need to read this story! Maybe it reads better than it sounds?








    dewback_rancher:
    I love that line, Dew! ;)


    That sounds like a great approach! Don't ever give up! Shake off the pessimisim and bring out the optimistic spirit.







    instantdeath:
    I agree with this, ID. I also think that they're alike in that they both try to use the gifts that they've been given to help others and to fight against the "darkness" in the world/galaxy.

    While I agree that the character of Luke Skywalker is the most important thing, and that it's nice to see him be an inspiration for others, I do also enjoy seeing him "unleashed" and doing something truly mind-blowing and powerful now and then too. ;)







    dewback_rancher:
    I kind of agree with ID about this, Dew. I'm hoping that the pendulum is actually beginning to swing back in the direction of true heroes again. We've had far too many years when anti-heroes and "fallen heroes" and "flawed" heroes have been popular. I don't want to see any more stories where Luke or other heroes respond to difficult situations the same way that a villain would... as Luke did in Sacrifice when he committed that vengeance killing of Lumiya.

    So am *I*! There has been far too little "fun" or humor in the SW universe of late. I don't see anything "fun" about Del Rey's post-RotJ stories.




    More another time...
  5. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Sheesh! I lost ANOTHER post that I had nearly finished. :(

    MasterSkywalker86:
    I don't think we were given a reason.

    You're right though that Luke falling in love with a voice, ghost, or spirit in a machine was really, really strange and really unbelievable. I wouldn' have minded Callista if she would have been introduced as a living, breathing person of Luke's era as she had an interesting personality and background. But having her be a spirit in a computer whose body had died before Luke was even born. was beyond weird! Plus, there was that whole disturbing body-switching thing.... :(


    Okay, but I wish that it could have been done in a more peaceful, less traumatizing way. It almost seemed as though it was a painful ordeal for Callista, and I didn't like that. Maybe I'm just misremembering.

    Yes, I always wished that we could have gotten a nice scene between Luke and Force ghost Mara. Instead, we got that silly face in the lake business, which made it seem like Mara was in Force purgatory, even though we know that Force ghost Mara DID appear to both Ben and Luke. We just weren't able to see Luke's conversation with Mara. :(:mad:

    I was also disappointed that we didn't get a nice, romantic scene between Luke and Mara in Sacrifice, the book in which Mara was killed off. Instead, we got a scene of Luke and Mara arguing about Jacen and a couple of scenes of Luke sleeping and snoring. :(:mad: Meanwhile, there was a nice final scene between Mara and Ben and Mara and Leia.... But no great scene for Luke and Mara. :mad:


    Or at least a slate with the terrible stories over-written. I'd like to start over after SQ or Union.





    I'll second all of that!


    I've never read any of the Force Unleashed books, so I don't know much about Starkiller except one folks have mentioned about him. Mostly, I've heard that he was uber-powerful, even moreso than Luke. :mad:

    I'm just so ready to have good, true heroes be popular again. That's how I want Luke to be portrayed in the ST.







    dewback_rancher:
    I like quite a few actually. The Thrawn Trilogy had a good Luke characterization and was one of my favorite Luke stories. I also liked Luke in Truce at Bakura and in Courtship of Princess Leia. I liked most of the Thrawn duology too, but I didn't like Mara's lecturing of Luke. I really hated the idea that Luke and everything he did was tainted for the 10 years between DE and VotF. But I loved Luke and Mara's adventure in that Fortress, and I loved little Child of Winds. (as I'm sure you can guess!) I just wish we could have seen Luke and Mara meeting up again with Friend of Jedi in a later book.







    Tim Battershell:
    Hi, Tim! I agree that that is one of the very best. I enjoyed the way Zahn portrayed Luke as a competent, smart, gifted person even without the Force. That's why I find his Allegiance and CoO especially disappointing. In those books, Luke looks like an inept, clueless, useless idiot.








    kataja:
    But he always had the potential to be super. If he would have been trained as most Jedi were during the time of the OR, Luke would have been "super" from childhood. And I don't think you can fault someone who just had a few weeks of training and wasn't even officially a Jedi yet, because he had difficultly with Palpatine. Luke sort of still had his "Force training wheels on" at the time.


    Sorry, but I have to disagree here, K! I think Luke is VERY unselfish. Even as a teenager, when he wanted so desperately to go to the Academy and had passed the exams to do so, he still was going to stay on the Farm with his Aunt and Uncle, even though it was the last thing he wanted to do. He was old enough. He didn't have to stay, but he was going to stay if the Empire hadn't come along and killed his guardians.

    When Ben Kenobi figured out that the Empire had killed the Jawas, Luke raced back to the farm to try to help his aunt and uncle when he realized that they too were probably in danger. He didn't think about himself at all; he just went to try to save them.

    He wanted to save the Princess; not for money, but because it was the right thing to do. Even though he hadn't even flown an X-wing, Luke went out with the other pilots to try to save Yavin IV and everyone there. He left his training to try to save Han and Leia, not only because they were his friends, but because he was the reason that they had been captured and were being tortured in the first place. He went to rescue Han. He left the Rebels not only to save his father, but because his presence was a danger to the Rebels in RotJ.

    You could go on and on in the films and in the EU books where there are tons of examples of Luke being unselfish. In fact , I can only think of two times when Luke was selfish: The first was in SbS when his infant son had been kidnapped and Luke left the battle to try to save him, and in Sacrifice when Luke committed the vengeance killing.







    Darth_Pevra:
    That's a great point, DP!!! I like that!







    dewback_rancher:
    I'm glad you're back too, Dew, and that you're having fun!


    It was a pretty good story, but it didn't have one of my favorite Luke characterizations, though there were a few good scenes, especially near the end as they were trying to leave the skyhook.

    And I love the Bantam era a WHOLE LOT better than the Del Rey era!!!! SQ, TUF, and Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor were really the only books that I thoroughly enjoyed that were one in the Del Rey era.


    More another time....
  6. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    I type my long posts in Notepad (simple enough, but one has to remember to put a space into every empty line).

    Could it be a 'comfort-zone' thing? At that time he's almost exclusively a pilot, so probably wouldn't have much ground-combat experience; put him in a cockpit (particularly an X-Wing cockpit) and he'd shine!

    How long is it to TTT from the earlier books? Time enough for him to have developed a lot of confidence in what he can do outside piloting, I would think.
  7. dewback_rancher Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2009
    star 4
    The problem with that is we have stories from around the same time frame, both before and after, Allegiance and CoO, that show Luke as very capable and confident in ground combat.

    Allegiance and CoO are really anomalous in their portrayal of Luke compared to everything else in that first cramped year after the Battle of Yavin.
    MasterSkywalker86 and kataja like this.
  8. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Tim Battershell:
    I did type my posts into Notepad for quite a while, but it's easier to do the quotes when I paste all of the posts directly from notepad into the TFN box before responding to each post. Sadly though, the accidental push of one button that way can cause the entire post to just go "poof!" and disappear. :(

    I don't really think that's it though. Even in ANH, Luke wasn't always in an X-wing, but he was still resourceful and thought quickly on his feet, coming up with the plan to rescue the Princess and quickly coming up with a way to get himself and Leia across that chasm on the Death Star, for example.

    Plus, we know that Luke was smart and had other skills just from ANH and the radio version of ANH. We know that he had passed the tests and had been accepted at the Academy, so we know he was intelligent and that he took the initiative. We also know that he knew how to repair droids and ships and we knew that he was familiar with guns because of the dangerous Judland wastes. So we know Luke had other talents besides the Force and piloting.

    In the Marvel comics which take place at that time as well, Luke is competent even when he's not piloting.

    What truly bugged me in Allegiance was that Obi-wan did everything for him instead of guiding Luke, but allowing Luke to do things himself or think for himself. In both Allegiance and CoO other characters were permitted to make worthwhile contributions and actually accomplish things. Unfortunately, Luke did neither in both books. :(:mad:







    dewback_rancher:
    I completely agree. It doesn't make sense that Luke is written as such a useless, incompetent character in Allegiance and in CoO, especially since we've seen Zahn write Luke correctely in TTT.
  9. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    That was my basic point - I'm glad you agree [:D] And I think it makes Luke all the more interesting and admirable!


    :D


    Well, he had a lightsaber - and that was all I reflected on as 11 year old :p

    Well, it's not like they don't have that bond - only Wedge is weary to attach himself - still afraid Luke was but lucky at the Death Star. I kinda find it interesting - and hope we see their friednship grow. It would be nice to see Luke open Wedge up, just like he works hismelf into everyone else!

    knowledge of the English language. I've checked up on the use of the word - and I agree with you. Of course I agree that luke is unselfish - adn actually selfess, as he thinks more on the wellfare of others than of himself. But as I said to MS, my point was, that Luke has quite a big ego - and back in ANH an urgent need to figure out who he is too. And this, in fact, is one of the aspects I find so sympathetic with him - that he has this ego and this need -and yet puts himself aside for the sake of others! But I understood the word 'selfless' as someone who's lacking a self. My mistake.

    Your suggestion is sensib
    Really? ;) I understand you quite well - and agree it would be great to see him again! Also, ChildofWinds is such a lovely name! [:D]


    Ok, blame my uttering on my unsufficient le - but also what really gets me want to scream. Because due to Allegiance and CoO this is exactly how people now will see Luke around this time! But thing is, that there are comics, Marvels as well as the more recent Dark Horse Empire and Rebellion comics, where he is in every way more competent that in these two novels - and very clearly on ground missions as well as piloting. Also, there are the Scholastic books - and even Ryder Windhams Luke Skywalker biography which takes up many comicbook stories - and in all of them he is both more sensible and spirited. It's his complete lack of initiative that annoys me partcularly in Zahn's two books - he had ten times more guts already in ANH!

    Which is also why I'm glad we get this In the Shadow of Yavin comic! I so prefer a Luke who disobeys the rules before a Luke who sits on his hands!
  10. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    BTW I re-read Luke Skywalker and the Treasure of the Dragon Snakes yesterday - and it still stands to me as one of the best Luke stories ever! He's still young and slightly whiny in his adorable fashion - but sweet, resorceful and thinking on his feet as well as out of the box! Plus is shows Luke really learning some great lessons under Yoda's tutelage!
  11. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    There's an interesting conversation between Wedge and Tycho, I think in X-Wing 1, where they discuss how they both don't get to know the new recruits too well, because they've seen so many of them die!

    If Wedge is hesitant to form friendships in Wood's SW, that's the likely reason - it may be that Biggs wasn't the first of the people he knew who he watched die, there were others before him.
    kataja likes this.
  12. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    What is that? Comic, novel? A pretty cool title.
  13. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    I can understand that, I only hope that Wood develops their friendship that eventually leads to the founding of Rogue Squadron. It's odd as a Luke fan that the only formation story I can think of are Rogue Squadron for N64 and a bit of Rogue Leader: Rogue Squadron 2. I feel we haven't had a proper story that explored Luke's pilot adventures....and I prefer Luke as a Jedi Knight.


    it doesn't work for me and I hope it's an idea best left forgotten once the ST becomes prominent.

    I think you might be misremembering a bit [face_thinking] :p it was Abeloth who was the one in pain while Callista was happy to be set free.

    Del-Rey basically needed shock value for no reason(oh yeah Jacen had to make a sacrifice which was foreshadowing the death of his daughter but no it had to be Mara.....cause that's what the writers wants)....and what's worse is they have chosen to kept any Force spirit Mara scenes to the minimum. Instead of dedicating a solo book to the Skywalkers and Solo coping with their lost, they basically moved on :rolleyes: So basically they erase the character for intents and purposes with no new characters to replace her. It's ironic as the new books have now been trying to grasp realism(in a freaking fantasy world) yet they do it in such UNrealistic ways. I'll take George Lucas original view that they all live happily ever after then what we got with Legacy.

    Star Wars ain't hardcore sci-fi, bring back my space fantasy stories.

    or at this point I would like them to over written, specifically some unnecessary/farfetch ideas, like Waru, Callista, Luke being a hermit in BFC, Planet of Twilight, Otter love, Zahn's adoration to his own continuity(like Lando and Wedge don't really know each well yet they fought together during the Battle of Endor and shake hands during the celebration ??!?!?!?!),Ysalmari(I feel that it's unnecessary to make a jedi kryponite when it's shown that even with the Force they're not invulnerable), Glove of Darth Vader, anything Star Wars marvel related, Dark Saber, and Kevin J Anderson. And perhaps take the TCW approach to involving the popular aspects of EU. BUT....they would have to involve them in ways that honor the stories that preceded them. Like an adaptation...not all the minor things happen in the same way but the gist of it happen. That's how you transition book story to small screen.

    actually he was supposedly to match the Emperor once he reached the height of his potential. But I take that with a grain of salt. So Skywalker is still top dog :p, the thing is the creator made him to be the antithesis of Luke. He is Luke had he trained with his dad.....power unleashed. I'm paraphrasing but that was Haden Blackman's intent when he created the character and had said as much. Also in the games, the powers are blown a bit out of proportioned with everybody. Likely the TFU series is probably going to be retconed out as there was suppose to a third one until Lucasarts was canned. The first game had a decent story but open up a can of worms, the second one was unnecessary and brought out more problems. No jedi should be able to beat or match Vader....hence the point of Luke's importance.

    ditto.


    we agree once again ;)

    I hope they show them as brothers in arms as I felt we lack the origin of Rogue Squadron story.


    I would argue that Clark had no ego and Luke had a typical teen's(er maybe not so typical :p) ego as Luke never really bragged. The only time I can think of that comes close is when he felt insulted when Han told him who would fly the ship in the cantina, and even then it was to prove a point.
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Apr 22, 2013
  14. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    IIRC the Force Unleashed series was already in trouble even before the buyout and the dismantling of LucasArts.

    Also, there is significant evidence that Vader's loss in TFU 2 may have been part of his overall plan.
  15. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    you would be right on the money then Arawn Fenn, as Haden Blackman left LucasArts for greener pastures with the comics at the time of TFU II's release or right afterwards. Regardless I doubt we will get resolution to the TFU franchise unless the sequel sold well. In that case Disney will probably lend the license to a developer.
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Apr 22, 2013
  16. VanishingReality Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2013
    star 3
    I have a question about that I hope someone can answer. I remember reading somewhere on Wookiepedia that TFU 2 takes place in an AU time line where Luke dies on Hoth? This explains several things like Yoda willing to train Starkiller and Vader's preoccupation with Starkiller's clone if this is the case.
    Last edited by VanishingReality, Apr 22, 2013
  17. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    :rolleyes: Seriously? Because -

    THAT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE.

    Wookieepedia is supposedly also claiming that Tarkin was knowingly in league with Darth Sidious during COD.

    Stay classy, Wookieepedia.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Apr 22, 2013
    MasterSkywalker86 likes this.
  18. VanishingReality Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2013
    star 3
    Yep, it was Palpatine's page. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Palpatine
    Under the heading Force Unleashed II: Battle for Endor.
    Maybe it's just the dark-side version ending though lol
  19. Havac Former Moderator

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    EDIT: Yep. That's a behind the scenes section talking about his appearance in the TFU II DLC based on the TFU AU DLC.

    The New Essential Chronology, however, confirms that Tarkin was contacted by Darth Sidious and seduced into his service.
    Last edited by Havac, Apr 22, 2013
  20. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    But did he know him as Sidious or just Palpatine?
  21. Havac Former Moderator

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    It specifically says that he was contacted by Darth Sidious and seduced by "the Sith Lord's vision of High Human Culture." And the NEC tends to distinguish between Palpatine's actions as Palpatine and his actions as Sidious.
  22. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Exactly. That conversation is very much in my mind when I read the Brian Wood comic!

    [QUOTERK_Striker_JK_5]What is that? Comic, novel? A pretty cool title.[/QUOTE]
    It's a comic, third issue in the Star Wars Adventures series: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star...kywalker_and_the_Treasure_of_the_Dragonsnakes
    Tom Taylor's script
    Heh heh. Agreed about title, though first time I brushed it, my brain got it to something about "trousersnakes" [face_devil]

    I admit, I put my money on that ;) And yes, we definitely lack that story!

    I agree it's a teenager's need to stand out - but there's temper behind it. He gets mad at Han at the Death Star too - and when Han's leaving Yavin too. I've always seen Luke's temper equal Leia's and Mara's - only he's got a difefrent kind of sweet nature that would take the top of it most times.
    Last edited by kataja, Apr 23, 2013
  23. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Yeah, we know Luke and Wedge become friends, but I'm not sure the story of how that happened has been told?
  24. dewback_rancher Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2009
    star 4
    In everything I read they always stated their friendship was forged in the trench run. With "LOOK AT THE SIZE OF THAT THING!" being a personal joke between the two.
    Son of a Bith likes this.
  25. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    I don't think there's any doubt that their friendship started there. But that's not the same as they were no stones along the way! Wedge had seen his parents die and lost many comrades in arms - it would be natural he'd have his inner shields up - and all the more if he actually liked Luke! And In the Shadow of Yavin takes place only weeks after ANH - I think Wedge trying to hold back a little, is a both plausible and interesting approach.

    I'm pretty sure it hasn't. And I pride myself to be pretty knowing of Luke-stories
    Last edited by kataja, Apr 23, 2013