Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    Well, the JAT may not have been stellar, but..

    1. I still put it over anything past the YJK and...

    2. KJA wrote the YJK, so that automatically makes him number one for me. ;)
  2. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I try to stay away from KJA as much as possible.
  3. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    ?
  4. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    exactly.


    not to mention you said Leia was right next to Ben when she heard the news.....:rolleyes:



    I didn't care for anyone's handle save for the following, Zahn of course and I think Luceno shows promise. Stackpole did well in the Union comic and I enjoy what Tom Taylor brought to the table , I'm curious how JJM would handle her characterization. Though a lot of you SOS regulars praise Tyers as well. I'm starting to think I might have to buy the TTT since as you know my EU collection stops at SQ and it would be nice to read TTT, HoT, and SQ in chronological order.

    when they go that approach they obviously fail to see why these two are together. Luke isn't a doormat nor is Mara the aggressive overbearing wife. Mara will follow Luke's advice, even when she disagrees with him and vice versa. They pooled in their experiences and make the best approach/choice when making decisions due to their plethora of experiences. For instance Luke is obviously the master of the Force, but Mara can make precise saber work that is unparallel. Luke fights from the direct approach but Mara uses stealth. They complement each other in many ways, Luke has open Mara up and Mara has made Luke, a man who has endure quite a lot happy. They were made for each other. I just hope Disney sees that.

    I loved that in a sense, cause here we see a jealous Mara trying to stay objective but it's not working and here we start to really see Mara break out of her shell. And yes it goes without saying that Mara is 100% loyal to Luke.

    I think after HoT it's more of term of affection now, instead of saying dear or honey she refers to her husband as either farmboy or Skywalker. And it's very much like the character to called her soul mate those terms since it reflects their intimate moments they share in the past(from wanting to kill him, to friendship, and eventually love) to current times. Another thing to add, I think Mara wouldn't date.....she strikes me as an all or nothing type of girl, so when she was disappointed when Luke didn't pay extra attention to her she left.

    agreed, or the typical male stereotype: man = aggressive

    I dunno what KJA was smoking :p
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  5. VanishingReality Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2013
    star 3
    I liked that specific duel itself, where Luke didn't fly off the handle with Gantoris, I thought it showed a great Jedi-like maturity when he handed the lightsaber back to Gantoris. It reminded me of when Yoda handed back Ventress' lightsaber in TCW. It's kind of a very subtle way of saying, ''you're not even a little tiny ant of an opponent for me, so...check yourself.'

    That said I agree he's handled the situation overall very poorly by not showing any other signs of alertness, he seemed to want to sweep the issue under the rug, like in denial lol.
    Last edited by VanishingReality, Apr 30, 2013
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  6. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Maybe I have to read more about her, then. But she is definitely malfunctioning, yes.

    I was often wondering how it would be if Anakin survived and I could see him acting in a similar way. While he wouldn't snap at people, he would probably distance himself as well when he feels his family is getting to close to him.

    That Luke would let her walk all over him irritates me. You can't break someone out of bad habits if you support them at every turn. You gotta make clear what you can accept and what you can't.

    About the rest maybe it gets better when I read more about their relationship. I'm still willing to give it a chance and the Luke/Mara scenes don't annoy me or anything (Well, aside from that atrocious scene after Anakins death).

    Agree with this interpretation. If he is overly concerned for her she snaps at him too. She's afraid of closeness.
  7. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    she is fiercely independent.
  8. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5

    Eh, it's always been a pet peeve of mine when directors feel the need to hook every character up with somebody, to the point where romance is often shoehorned in because it's expected. Personally, I feel the ending of ROTJ works better when it's Luke, metaphorically alone in the galaxy ("the last of the Jedi), standing in front of Vader's funeral pyre. Love is something that may come later, but for now, he has a job to do: rebuilding the Jedi. I just can't imagine putting a Luke romance into ROTJ without it taking away from Luke's scenes with Vader. Luke's entire plotline in ROTJ is dedicated to a relationship. It's just not a romantic one.
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  9. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    My quip about a certain dumb variety of feminism seems to have generated quite the discussion!
  10. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    @Jedi Ben , ah I see. Well you do a good job of setting up topics even when not trying.

    @instantdeath , good point including a romance in said OT could have detract from Luke's story. Although I hope he's married by ST
  11. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
  12. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Then why is she married? Seems a better idea to stay single if you don't want to have someone around.
  13. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    more like she was independent til she met Luke and that's when she actually started living. before she was raised as an agent, a weapon. The closest thing to friends was a storm trooper squad she met twice. Her life was basically the Emperor's will and her possessions. It's so bad that she cried when she sacrifice her ship like she lost a family member. Once Luke stumble into her life she grew to understand what she was missing in her life, she open up. It was due to Luke's nature that she felt comfortable to open up and she wanted to open up with no one else but her future husband. Hence why Mara took it personal when Luke didnt give her special attention during JAT. Mara became inseparable with Luke. Unless a author writes her OOC.
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Apr 30, 2013
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  14. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    MasterSkywalker86:
    .
    I agree.

    I have no idea...







    Darth_Pevra:
    I certainly felt that Mara was WAY out of line with Luke in SbS! And, yes, I too want Luke to be happy! He deserves it!







    instantdeath:
    LOL! That *is* pretty much it... onscreen anyway. If they had some dates after their engagement, we didn't get to read about them. Oh!!!! There was that little vacation or date or whatever that Luke and Mara seemed to be on at the beginning of the Union comic, where they were both out in nature and wearing shorts or something similar'..







    RK_Striker_JK_5:
    I think KJA comes up with a lot of creative ideas, and he has certainly created a lot of memorable characters. (from the YJK series mostly) However, his execution often leaves something to be desired. I also am not happy that he included the events of DE in his Jedi Knights novels. Before that, comic book continuity was pretty much separate from the novel continuity. Plus, the way he wrote Luke in the first book of the Jedi Academy trilogy hinted that Luke had fallen in DE, and I think that had a lot to do with many fans getting the impression that Luke had been a darksider in DE.

    Plus, many of us thought that we must have missed a novel when we read the small part about Luke's experience on Byss in Jedi Search. It took me a long time to find out that this story was written in a comic book.

    As Instant Death said, Luke was also written as "remarkably stupid and incompetent". I really didn't like that at all. It's true that Luke was a new teacher in the JAT, but Luke is a lot smarter and more resourceful than he was portrayed in that series. He made so many terrible mistakes that it was ridiculous! And the fact that he didn't show more caution and concern when things started to go wrong and get dark didn't make any sense, especially coming on the heals of the events of DE.








    MasterSkywalker86:
    That's the way I feel too!









    kataja:
    Yes, I liked that. It showed that Mara was changing and wanted to change more, and that Luke had a lot to do with it. You're right that Mara was never one who trusted very much, so the fact that she was willing to open up does prove her love for Luke and her trust in him.

    I definitely agree!









    MasterSKywalker:
    I don't know if she was always right next to him, but they were in the same building all the time, so why Mara would worry about Ben's reaction to Luke's pain from halfway across the galaxy doesn't make much sense.


    Let's hope so!







    VanishingReality:

    That's exactly the way it seemed: as though Luke was in denial and wanted to just sweep the mess under the rug and pretend it wasn't happening. It wasn't like Luke at all!



    More tomorrow....
  15. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    @ChildOfWinds , it still doesn't make any sense. Leia is practically right next to Ben and is probably going through shock, grief, and anger.....yet apparently Luke cant grieve cause something something darkside from lightyears away :rolleyes:
  16. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Exactly!

    This is how i see it too!

    There's one fundamental difference between these two, though, more than general difference in character: Anakin never had a good seelf esteem but continuously and desperately tries to prove his own worth. While Mara has a very good self esteem. Even when she realizes her entire existence 's been based on a lie, she hook up to herself and goes on, aware that her skills are not a lie. In many ways I see this to be the reason she hold Luke at a distance ´for a start - she'sa proud woman and wants to be recognized for what she is capable of.

    Agreed. But I just snap my fingers and look at the stupid text passages like a misunderstanding on wikipedia: next writer can fix the faults :p

    She is. Only Luke gives her the place that she needs to cope with it. I think Kathy Tyers that manages to pen her and their relationship down best in Balance Point. And MS says it vry well above! ;)

    I very much agree with this. It just didn't fit into the film - and had a second female character been introduced, everyone would just have known from the start she was to be Luke's love interest o_O

    But I agree with Child too, so far, that in the hero's journey, introduction to love plays an important part - love should have been part of Luke's arch too - only the trilogy ended too quickly.
    Last edited by kataja, Apr 30, 2013
  17. VanishingReality Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2013
    star 3
    Child of Winds:

    Am I the only one who thinks that Luke is incapable of turning to the dark side? I agree it was just the sensationalism of DE that made it seem that he was a Sith Apprentice or something crazy. Maybe he could get angry in a fight, and be tempted to use the dark side, but actually turning for any period of time would make him lose a lot of charm that his character has. I feel the same with Obi-wan. I just can’t picture him or Luke ever going to the dark side.

    After finishing the JAT, I agree that Luke was highly stupid, and I wonder if that was because it was a passing of the torch story to the Jedi Academy students and the kids. The upside is that I think having coma!Luke allowed for a few extremely emotional moments. Like R2’s reaction was extremely heartbreaking, Jaina trying to kiss him to wake him up, and the Jedi students all hugging him when he got up.

    My other favorite scene was when Mon Mothma sent Kyp to Luke Skywalker for punishment.

    “Kyp Durron, you have the blood of millions, perhaps billions on your hands. This warrants nothing less than an execution, but we will instead send you to be judged by your Jedi Master. Everyone on this council is well aware Master Skywalker will forgive you and is likely in the process of baking you a tray of cookies for the second you arrive. You will feel so guilty your brain will explode in your skull. Take him to Yavin.”

    Pretty Harsh of Mon Mothma.
  18. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Actually what you write here makes me think of her as a clingy, jealous psycho girlfriend, not the person I'd want Luke to be married with. If you exchange aloofness for possessiveness it is not so good. Did she really swap her obsession with Palpatine for an obsession with Luke?
    I'd rather if Luke didn't carry her emotional baggage too. He already has a lot of responsibility.

    Vader is very obsessive and controlling with people he cares about, Mara seems to be too. They both are very much aware of their strengths and act accordingly. Not at all so different, it seems.
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  19. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    @Darth_Pevra , possessive/clingy ? It doesn't come off that way its basically as kataja put it loyalty. but you have to remember that Mara is basically a loner for her entire life who discovers what she is missing. Also it's not like Mara or Luke won't do things on their own.

    As for the Vader comparison, only when Mara is written OOC she becomes controlling. Also Mara doesnt come off unbalanced during her marriage. Ill say this though Mara isn't for everybody. Question though have you read TTT, HoT, and SQ ?
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, May 1, 2013
  20. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Depends. If Luke is the only person in the entire galaxy who she cares about I find it a bit questionable/unhealthy. If she has some other real close friends besides him (maybe Leia), then okay.

    Nope (aside from TTT, but that was a long time ago). It could be that she is written OOC. I just have to wonder at this point which version of Mara is the "real one" and which isn't.
  21. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    She's friends with Talon's crew loyal to the bone, but she doesn't really get close to anyone. Do yourself a favor and read TTt, HoT and SQ and see how you feel about her after reading those 6 books. I mention that list of books because it's the definitive Mara, Zahn wrote all those books.
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, May 1, 2013
  22. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    You can divide Mara's live in three stages. 1) when she's Palpatine's pawn. At this period of her life she has no friends but is still capacle to care about other people. In Allegiance she holds a small funeral ceremony for a man she's worked with a very short time and in Choises of One she realizes she misses a group of stormtroopers she's worked with and learned to respect.

    2) From Palpatine's death to her marriage with Luke (15 years) This is in a way an unclear period. In the comic Mara Jade By the Emperor's Hand, (shortly after P's death) she cares alot about the cantina owner she's working for, as well as some regular customers - but five years later, she's hunted by the vision & Force implanted command to kill Luke. She's working for Karrde by that time, and both respects him and is deeply loyal to him, but basically she keeps other people at bay. Luke however, also earns her respect and she starts to soften up a little towards him. Also Leia by the time of THT considers Mara a 'friend'

    3) At latest when Luke and Mara Force connect she realizes how deeply she's in need to open up towards other people - and she knows she wants to learn this from Luke. She befiends at least Leia, Mirax Terrick-Horn, Corran Horn and Saba Sebatyne, plus we know she's got a very close relation to her nephews and her niece in particularly. That is only those we know of for sure - but there are several hints that she becomes more or less 'normal' over time. And when she gets Ben, she really softens up.

    I definitely wouldn't call her clingy and possesive at all - on the contrary, she's a very independent woman. Also, while some writers seem to think she's emotional, it's very clear from what Zahn writes in the early stories of her, that she's very controlled and rational. We meet her led by a Force compulsion in TTT - yet she's able to control her strong urge to kill Luke due to rational reasons.

    I wouldn't say so. Of course a strong person is always in risk of influencing his/her surroundings, but that's not the same as obsessive and controlling. Mara has self- control - and is probably more likely to order versus chaus - but she's not a control freak. I wonder where you get this impression? What books with her have you read?
    Last edited by kataja, May 1, 2013
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  23. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    @ MasterSkywalker86
    Problem is I don't like Zahns writing stile much.

    That may all be but so far I still not certain what I should make about her. Maybe I'll come to appreciate her but so far my impressions are mixed. Your explanation won't change that though I admit I don't have the whole picture at all.

    NJO up to SBS. Also "Night on a house" (which was horrible) and a story where she is kept prisoner by Isard (which is also horrible). Often during the NJO I read so far I got the impression that whenever Luke has to decide something he bases his decisions on what Mara wants and not what is best for the Jedi. But then I was constantly irritated by the choices he made and was curious for any explanation why he acts so differently from what I know about him.
  24. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    @kataja , once again K you nailed an accurate portrayal of Mara. I vote you for Mara expert on SOS. :)
  25. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    @Darth_Pevra, DP ah I see, that's too bad cause his earlier works were the crown jewel of EU and really depicted Luke well. Although he often limited Force use in all Jedi he did have Luke use his other strengths in combat. but any who I suggest DP unless you're a glutton for punishment is skip NJo and read TUF. It's probably the one book that everybody like out of NJO including critics, fans, haters, detractors etc. It has a pretty good depiction of Luke and his relationship of Mara that's in charcter. For the rest of series I would just wiki it and save yourself some time and misery
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, May 1, 2013
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