Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4
    I always wanted one of the Skywalker/Solo children to be non-Force Sensitive. I also want to see another Luke centric novel similar to Shadows of Mindor. (For those who haven't read it, go read it!):( But ah well.
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  2. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    The force sensitive could turn and then the non-force sensitive could go to rescue him/her and has to fight his own jealousy on the way.

    But going with tradition could also be interesting. Maybe there is a way to become force sensitive artificially, but the price for this power would be very, very steep. I find it interesting when normally good people are willing to sell their soul for something.
  3. VanishingReality Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2013
    star 3
    I think Luke would unconsciously favor his force-sensitive child over the other one, since he'd have a huge bond with them, and he'd be over-protective that they might be corrupted, maybe going so far as to hide them like he did the with Solo kids. (Also it'd be interesting to see Luke go through the same separation anxiety that Leia went through)
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  4. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    I could definitely see the non-Force sensitive kid preferring to hang out with Uncle Han.
  5. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    One of the biggest EU crimes is we never got a sequel to Mindor
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, May 1, 2013
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  6. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    Oh boy. I'm rereading the Jedi Prince series, obviously, for my ongoing thread. I completely forgot Luke loses to Trioculus 8-}. The lover of terrible absurdest fiction wants to laugh. The Luke fan in me wants to scream.
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  7. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    And people wonder why I'm indifferent to EU being wiped out :p
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, May 1, 2013
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  8. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    Whoa there, it's not fair at all to use the Jedi Prince series as representative of the EU :p If the EU has a dirty little secret, it's that series.
  9. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Of course i can use it as the definitive representation of EU as it was my first gateway to Star Wars lit.. :p ok fine, Correction, I'm fine with certain parts of the EU being wiped out.

    And calling it the EU's dirty little secret is sugar coating it, it's practically a full blown fetish of EU insanity. Then again there is otter love :p
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, May 1, 2013
  10. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4
    The Jedi Prince Series is the Harry Potter of the EU Family. That emaciated, orphaned, relative who lives in a small cupboard and is never mentioned around company. :D

    Since this is a thread about Luke: What's everyone's favorite Luke Skywalker moment? Movies, comics, games, books, etc.

    I have to choose 3 personally:

    ROTJ- "I am a Jedi, like my father before me."

    Mindor, when he faced and defeated Kar Vastor.

    TUF- Just the part where he's surrounded by Jedi at the end and talking to all of them about their path and place in the galaxy. I felt that was like the climax of his entire life's work. (Also when he was kicking Vong butt alongside Jacen and Jaina, and basically became a maelstrom of the Force)
    Last edited by DarthJenari, May 1, 2013
  11. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    When Vader told him he is his father and Luke started crying.

    :p
    Nah, just kidding, though I like that scene as it shows his human frailty more than is usual with movie heroes.

    My favorite scene however is classic, when he threw away his lightsaber.
  12. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    I'm sorry =P~

    And nah, I'd say Jedi Prince is definitely a dirty secret. It's all but ignored in everything else. Plus, as someone who's in the process of both reading them and analyzing them more deeply than they were ever intended, if we were to take most of the things it says literally, the EU as we know it would be a very, very different place.
  13. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Here's a book that picked up my interest....for obvious reasons.

    [IMG]

    http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/notyetamovie/news/?a=78647

    more pics on the link



    Now you have gone and upset the Potter fans :p Well for my favorite Luke moments, I can think of quite of a few but I'll limit it to just the Movies, Books, and the Comics.

    Movies: I would probably say any scene with Luke involved in RotJ, from that grand entrance he makes showing how much he has mastered the Force in 6 months that he doesn't bring a weapon with him to Jabba's Palace...he is a weapon. The rancor pit then you have the wonderful Sail Barge scene that echos Errol Flynn with Luke fighting Jabba's type of scum, Yoda's last moments with his greatest student, Speeder Bikes and sabers, Luke floating Threepio around to masquerade that he's a angry god to the ewoks, Luke reveals Leia that they're siblings. They're all so good moments, but I think the climatic one has to go with the entire confrontation between Luke and Vader and Sidious, Obi-wan and Yoda want Luke to kill his father and Sidious, Vader wants Luke to kill the Emperor, Sidious wants Luke to kill Vader and to join him. Luke does none of the above and picks the best and most light sided course of action due to love(take notes Bioware), the love of father and son. We see this moves Vader to also save his son from death as Luke did for his father first. Luke's journey to knighthood has finish and now his real work is ahead of him.

    Books: It's really a toss up between Mindor and SotP/VotF, so I'll include both and a runner up. I think Mindor had a great many scenes as well, Luke allowing himself to be taken prisoner and Force absorbing blaster bolts from a rowdy stormtrooper, to telekinetically activating the repuslor rays on the Falcon. His characterization is as on par with the action scenes, Luke is optimistic and still has his ideals but he is weathered by his experiences, he'll apply mercy but he's no pushover. But I think the best scene in Mindor is where Luke answers Black Hole's question with a Fountain of Light. SotP more or less setup the pieces for VotF, but I enjoy Luke's reflection on what he could really do to a pirate fleet, ripping and crushing apart hull plates and cannon turrets or simply control the minds of the pilots, there are no limits at all. But I think VotF illustrated a beautiful scene of Luke and Mara being enmesh in their Force bond for the first time, where they learn everything about each other intimately. The last line by Mara in the book was perfect too.

    Runner up: Well TUF is the typical and correct answer for us Luke fans, so I'll go a different route. In TJK, I simply love how Luke, Mara, Leia, Han, and Ben are being surrounded by over 45 killiks, Han is about to fire til Luke said wait Han I got this. one second later you see all these killiks pursuers in midair helpless, and Luke extending his hands to the air. He also turns to another groups of killiks ready to grab them too but they flee.

    Comics: DE, from Luke Force lowering a Star Destroyer like a repulsor lift, to him Force crushing an AT-AT walker, and taking out a small infantry. But the defining moment is he does is what his father was suppose to do and defeats the DS himself Sidious in lightsaber combat.

    lol, I'm very glad it's ignored. I think Luke regressed as a jedi during these 6 books....not to mention he oddly wears his jumpsuit from Bespin instead of his jedi knight robes.

    there is some Mara fanfiction where I see Mara as too aggressive..like basically she answers in growls :p

    thanks, exactomundo.

    I think most fans noticed that when reading SQ.
  14. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Darth_Pevra , speaking of Mara's treatment of Luke, I also didn't like the way that Mara treated Luke early in the NJO. She was definitely keeping him at arm's length. Now, I know that she had that illness, but Luke is her husband! She was far too distant with him, especially in VP. This was especially annoying and disappointing because it was the first book in which we saw Luke and Mara together as husband and wife. Their relationship seemed more like that of siblings than a married couple.







    MasterSkywalker86:

    Oh, I completely agree, MS! It was really ridiculous!








    kataja :
    And since it did end too quickly and Luke didn't get a love interest, I hope we will learn in the ST that he DID find someone to share his life with later, and that he was able to marry and have a family. If that person can be Mara that would be GREAT! However, if it can't be Mara, I still want Luke to have a wife and a child/children even if they can't be Mara and Ben.








    Vanishing Reality:
    I would like to think so too. Unfortunately, I feel that too many authors have written Luke as somewhat darkish or on the edge of darkness. I think a lot of this is because of DE AND because of Luke fighting Vader in anger at the end of RotJ. What the authors seem to forget is that Luke passed the test on the Death Star by not succumbing to darkness. Yes, he got angry when Vader threatened to turn Leia in his place, but he regained control of himself and chose the Light over the dark. That should have been the last time that there was ever a question that Luke would fall, in my opinion. Luke was willing to die to remain in the Light. What more can you be willing to sacrifice than your life to prove you are indeed a lightside Jedi?

    Luke was pretending to join the Emperor in DE. He acted like an undercover agent, helping the Alliance from behind enemy lines, sabotaging Imperial plans and equipment/ships, and sending the Alliance Imperial codes.

    I agree. And I believe that Luke is different from his father, and we shouldn't see the same 'falling to the darkside' story about both of them. If anything, I would say that Leia is more like her father than Luke is, and would be far more likely to fall to the dark than Luke. But I don't want to see either of them fall. In fact, I don't want to see anymore Skywalkers falling to the dark side. That story has been told. We don't need to keep repeating the same tale over and over again.



    I suppose it's possible that Luke was written as so foolish in order to make the kids shine. But I really hate it when an author degrades or diminishes one character in order to make another look better.

    That's true, but I hated having Luke in a coma in the first place, especially since it pretty much took Luke out of the story for far, far too long, in my opinion.









    Darth_Pevra :
    I agree that Luke's choices were often annoying and mind-boggling in the NJO. I truly didn't enjoy most of Luke's characterizations in that long, long, dark, unsatisfying series (TUF being one of the few exceptions). I was always complaining about Luke's terrible characterizations back then! Well, I guess that hasn't changed much, has it??? ;) I didn't like Luke's portrayals in DN, LotF, or FotJ either.








    MasterSkywalker86:
    If you're talking about Timothy Zahn, I agree with you, which is why I'm so puzzled about why he wrote Luke as so inept, useless, and stupid in CoO and Allegeance. It was like he was writing a totally different character. Luke didn't really accomplish anything in either book. I wasn't expecting him to do anything with the Force, but I *was* expecting Luke to demonstrate his other gifts and talents. Sadly, he didn't. :(


    I think that's pretty sound advice! ;)








    kataja:
    That's probably true. Sadly, too few authors seem to "get" Luke either. :(


    Luke was definitely out-of-character for far too much of the NJO. Luke has never been a "passive" guy. He has always been the active, in-the-middle-of-things, leading-the-charge kind of guy. It didn't make sense that Luke would be so passive when violent aliens were invading the galaxy, killing, enslaving, and destroying. What's to think about? You do your best to STOP them!



    Yes, and so was Anakin, and he died so young, all that potential lost. Luke lost Anakin to death and Jacen to the dark side. Sad for Luke, for Leia, and for Han.







    instantdeath :
    I'm in complete agreement! In fact, during the LotF series I said the very same thing. I especially think it would have been very interesting if Luke would have stripped Jacen of the Force as his punishment and if Jacen would have returned to the Light. I could have seen him helping to teach Force philosophy to young Jedi at Luke's Academy, but be unable to touch the Force himself. For Jacen, it would have been a true punishment, because he was a Jedi who always wanted to gain more Force knowledge and skills, hence why he visited all of those Force sects.

    Jacen would have been a living reminder to the young students of why to avoid the darkside.



    I know people keep saying this, but this really isn't true. Luke did try to talk to Jacen more than once, the last time being shortly before his death, when Luke tried to capture Jacen in his X-wing so they could try to redeem him. But Jacen wanted no part of it. He said he didn't need redemption, and he put innocents in Luke's path so he couldn't get to Jacen without risking hurting/killing innocent people. Luke made this attempt even though it was at great risk to himself.

    I agree with that assessment...

    Yes, I very definitely agree. It was a wasted potential. If they had to turn Jacen dark, then they should have allowed him to live and be stripped of the Force. OR, they could have allowed him to be a continuing villain; to continue to be a nemesis for Luke. Since Jacen had the Skywalker potential, he could have been a credible challenge for Luke.






    Darth_Pevra :
    I agree that this would be a very interesting development. If Luke did have a non-Force sensitive child though, I would like him to also have one who IS Force sensitive. I would want the non-Force sensitive child to be gifted in other areas though.








    instantdeath:
    Yes! I would REALLY like that too!





    kataja:
    I liked her personality, but I would only have wanted to see her as a partner for Luke if she would have been introduced to him as a living, breathing person of his own age rather than as a ghost in a computer whose body had died before Luke was even born. Plus, the "icky" part for me was the body-switching business. That was really pretty disturbing. As I've said before, if Luke and Callista would have married and had children, would those kids have been Callista's... or Cray's???







    DarthJenari:
    I'll second that!



    More another time...
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  15. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Interesting. I don't agree, though. I think Luke would be very aware of the difference between his children and to a huge effort not to differ between them. I simply think he's too muhc a family man not to.

    This, I could see, though :p

    What better way to promote a new villain but to let him beat the mighty Jedi?

    Oh, dear, I'm terribly at picking out superlatives. Gotta think about that one.

    Well, that's basically what she does in TTT ;) - but I know what you mean.

    Agreed!

    Exactly! And I don't buy that thing, that they tried to put the new generation into focus !!!

    This is true. Also, we should remember that the tiemframe og LOTF is very small - everything in it happens very fast , which actually sets a timelimit between the time Luke really understood Jacen was out of control to he was beyond help.

    I agree. And it troubles me to no end that Luke was juts all kissy kissy when Clalista apepared in Cray's body - no questions at all to what happened to his student!!! Not like Luke at all!! In general, he was uncharastically indifferent to Cray when she was in trouble.
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  16. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 5
    It does make sense why Luke was more passive in the first third of the series. The jedi were trying to put a council together, and trying to find their way in what cpacity they could serve. They knew there were not enough of them to cover most of the galaxy. On top of this being void of the force moved Luke into a philisophical quandry that he was not used to dealing with. he was afraid that outright agression would either get them all killed or they would become dark siders. This did happen to Alema, Jaina, and years earlier with Kyp. Jaina and Kyp's time was so short that they did not truly become lost in the darkside, but still. Luke's caution was understandable, let alone the logistics of having Jedi in situations where they could make a difference without getting them killed. I don't think you grasp the scope of the universe and how spread out the Vong were in it. Only 100 jedi at the time too.
  17. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Luke as shown in Invasion rescues refugees without fear of taking aggressive action, so why do we have at least 5-7 NJO books of Luke not doing much ??? He can still be active and take the defensive so to speak.It's almost as bad as Jacen's naive stance of neutrality in a war where everyone in the galaxy was being affected
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, May 2, 2013
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  18. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Out-right aggression wasn't the primary cause of Kyp going off the rails - that was being a slave for his life and then being screwed with by a millennia-dead Sith Lord!

    Being cautious isn't mutually exclusive with acting and Luke was inactive for a good 18 months! That's a crazy amount of time for anyone like Luke to be so, regardless of whatever concerns he had.

    That level of scope could have been conveyed, but wasn't. It could have formed a much better basis for disagreement within the Jedi too - which planets are defended and which not? But didn't..

    By the end of NJO the Jedi Order had sustained 50% losses even so. But that was really only due to the Vong getting a power-down, they started out being able to duel Jedi successfully one-on-one.
  19. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Quite so. After Ithor, why there wasn't a more concerted response to the Vong remains baffling - they screwed over a pacifist natural paradise, still the core didn't give a toss!

    Luke's caution was understandable and justified for the Dark Tide books, but that's the start of the war and covers 4 months. The degree NJO then took it to was ludicrous.
  20. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    It's like Luke decided to be a couch potato for those 18 months. Now I'm not saying I would expect him in every battle(what with Mara's condition) but he should have participated in the battlefield a bit more.
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  21. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    I liked that NJO recognised that the cast had become too large to be contained well within a book, thus you had the roving spotlight for the paperbacks with the hardbacks being core cast affairs.

    But it combined that with a leaden, monolithic timetable of stone that said a year had to pass between hardbacks, with the gap being covered by 3-4 paperbacks! 3-4 paperbacks to give a full sense of a year of galactic warfare.

    As if that wasn't stupidly ambitious enough, they then also needed to at least give a sense what the non-focus characters were doing at the same time and I never felt I had that. Instead it's just a series of erratic snapshots.
  22. dewback_rancher Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2009
    star 4
    My favorite Luke moment? Oh dear Lord... too many to list! [face_laugh]

    In finding myself unable to choose JUST ONE moment of compassion, of wisdom, of humor, of skill, or just all around awesomeness- or heck, to avoid even just rambling on for upwards of three hours choosing them all- I fall back on a Tom Taylor quote:

    "Luke Skywalker is awesome. Next question."

    [face_beatup]
    Last edited by dewback_rancher, May 2, 2013
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  23. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    I like the awestruck pilot of the liner in BP, Luke gets a coralskipper off them, comms them and registers awe in the Force of him, it's a neat scene that shows Luke how he is regarded by some!
  24. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    well I'm happy to say I bought some Star Wars books again after a long hiatus of not reading EU and even happier to say it's TTT. Man I put off owning these forever but after the recent review from ID, how I feel about the NJO/Legacy era(it's dead to me), and the uncertainty of continuity right now I figure regardless of how the new sequel trilogy will adapt the EU that I'll still enjoy the books I owned regardless if it's an AU or in continuity. Now I'm happy to say I owned a pretty good collection of Luke books, starting it off with Shadows of the Empire, Shadows of Mindor, The Thrawn Trilogy, Dark Empire, Hand of Thrawn Duology, and Survivor's Quest as it's closer. I think I could live with these as the ideal characterization of Luke, although they're aren't perfect they're the best of EU in my eyes. Now I got to start off with SotE :-B

    ST should fix that, I do hope they adapt Mara....although it's sad to say but I could live without Ben. They could name the new kids Owen and Beru or Yoda :p Perhaps if he was handled better in the current books but I have no interest in the character and that's a big shame as a Luke fan. I blame it on them aging the character too quickly, have him lose his mother and his mentor at an early age, and made him into a assassin at 12. :rolleyes: Any who back to Mara, I would like an adaptation of the character instead of cut and paste of the character from the books. There are certain elements that works in the books that wouldn't translate well in the films. For instance we get into the mind of Mara and see her point of view, in a film that wouldn't necessarily be the case.

    Apparently they didn't read DE carefully and forgot that Luke stop himself from killing his father!!!

    exactly, as we established it was Palpatine that subtly mind warp him to become his servant. You can even see this with Anakin to a certain extent in RotS....although we all know Anakin made his choice willingly. Luke did not. And that is a big deal.

    another thing we can attribute KJA too, he really doesn't get the character of Luke [face_waiting]

    hence why I'm going back to the EU roots sort of speak with TTT and rereading my revised book collection of EU ;)

    exactly at least one good thing about Revelations is that Luke rips apart Jacen's ship in order to take him alive and hopefully redeem him.


    I also think Luke would not favor one kid over the other, he was raised as a non-force sensitive by non-force sensitives. Luke would not have any prejudice over any of his kin, he loves them equally.

    I mean after TTT like after their marriage....but it's in a different context [face_devil] :p

    but I don't like to see Mara resorting to barking to get her thoughts across 8-}

    it's a terrible tactic that they used to sell toys, like GI Joe and Transformers. When you kill off the fan favorites it turns ugly and you end up doing your best to please the fans by resurrecting the character.

    It makes me wonder if Luke had a thing for his student beforehand [face_thinking] But even then no, it only happens once Callista enters Cray's body.....it's all parts of zany.
  25. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Darth_Pevra:
    As I said in my last post, I would prefer it if we didn't get any more Skywalkers who fell to the darkside.









    VanishingReality:
    I don't think I agree with that, VR. I would hope that Luke would treat both children equally, but I could almost see him be overprotective of the non-Force sensitive child. With the Force so strong in Luke's family, the non-Force sensitive child would almost be like a "handicapped" child, and I could see Luke worrying about this child feeling left out and inferior and having self-esteem issues. Since Luke is such a compassionate person, I could see him overly concerned about this child.









    instantdeath:
    I'm all for the scream! :( Goodness! Luke lost AGAIN???? He lost to Leia and to Corran (a couple of weeks into Jedi training!) and to Lomi Plo and to Lumiya a couple of times. Sheesh!!! Mara must have been wrong about Luke being such a great swordsman! :mad:

    I'm with MS: Things like this make it easier to have some of the EU overwritten. I certainly wouldn't mind losing the NJO, DN, LotF, and FotJ.







    DarthJenari:
    I don't play the games, but picking a favorite Luke moment in the movies and books is hard.

    Some of my favorite Luke moments in the films are the sailbarge scene in RotJ; when Luke single-handedly destroyed an AT with a cable and an explosive in TESB, and when Luke destroyed the death star in ANH. I also loved the scene in ANH where Luke uses that cable to swing himself and Leia across the chasm on the Death Star.

    In HttE, I loved when Luke used the battery from his hand to escape from Karrde's little prison, and when he was able to defeat a whole stormtrooper group without using the Force. I liked when Luke flew the Falcon by himself while firing the guns in CoPL, and the way he got out of the Jedi trap in SotP. I also enjoyed Mara and Luke working together in Thrawn's fortress and working to solve the mystery of what happened on the Outbound flight in SQ.

    My favorite Luke scene in the novels though was probably when Luke defeated all of those slayers and Chimrra in TUF. Luke moved so fast that Jacen and Jaina couldn't even see him.


    My favorite comic scene was where Luke came to the rescue in Tom Taylor's Invasion comic, defeating countless Vong all at once.



    Yes, those are all good choices!







    Darth_Pevra :
    That is definitely a classic!



    More another time....