Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. VanishingReality Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2013
    star 3
    My thought on how he would act to a force-sensitive child is based on how he acts to his NJO students and Leia’s kids. He has a huge devotion and protectiveness of them, because the Jedi at this point, are the galaxy’s universally-hated punching bags. If he isn't there for them, no one is. This is why I think the force sensitive would require the most compassion.

    However, he also has the trait of enjoying a challenge- so if the non-force sensitive does have self-esteem issues or view himself as inferior, he'd definitely be over-compensating for that (I wonder how he would cheer a non-force son/daughter up? Maybe teach them his piloting/mechanic/blaster skills since there is a lot more to Luke than just the force)

    However my pessimistic opinion is that if Luke's on any level aware that removing the no-attachment rule is seriously rolling the dice- I can see why he would worry about the safety of people close to him. For example, his mother wasn't force sensitive and could not defend herself. That could be a reason why he would prefer marrying a skilled force-user like Mara Jade, to be kept "in line" and he would do the same for her in return. Turning to the dark side is kind of a horrible thing to have a contingency plan for though.
    Last edited by VanishingReality, May 2, 2013
  2. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Although Luke did not have any knowledge of his mother til after his marriage to Mara. I think DN is the only confirmed moment when Luke finally gets to know his mom. in fact Luke thought his mom might been a member of the Fallanasi before. As I said before I don't see Luke being inclined towards his Force sensitive child over the other subconscious or not
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, May 3, 2013
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  3. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    MasterSkywalker86:
    Yes, that's one of my favorites!


    Oh, yes! I loved that too! I also enjoyed Luke and Mara's shared Vision of the Future.


    As much as I dislike the DN trilogy, I will admit that the above scene was an excellent one, one of the very few Denning Luke scenes I liked.

    Yes, this was great too. He saved everyone aboard by cushioning that Star Destroyer with the Force so that it didn't crash.








    kataja:
    I think so too. I think he would celebrate and love both equally and would encourage both to pursue whatever they would want to do in life.


    Yes, Uncle Han would understand what it's like to be a non-Force sensitive in a VERY Force gifted family. And Uncle Han certainly has other gifts that he has used well throughout his life. That fact would be a great example for the non-Force sensitive Skywalker.



    And if they were, you don't diminish an established character to focus on the next generation.

    .
    Exactly!!! At the beginning of the series, Jacen was still considered a huge hero, and Luke trusted him explicitly.


    No. Not like Luke at all. That was very out-of-character for Luke!




    JediMatteus :
    But was a Jedi Council really one of the most important things that Luke and the Jedi should have been concerned about during a MAJOR alien invasion?

    Yes, I can understand an initial hesitancy in an unfamiliar situation. The problem is, Luke and the Jedi actually started out pretty active in VP and THEN stepped back and became more passive and hesitant. In fact, in VP, Luke and the Jedi and their friends were the only ones willing to stand against the Invaders. The government was no help at all.

    The other problem is that once Luke stepped back and sat passively by waiting, he didn't do much for a year or two. That's far too much time to be passive. By that time, the YV had entrenched themselves in the galaxy and had killed and enslaved countless citizens. The Jedi should have destroyed that place where the YV was growing new ships in VP . That would have dealt the YV a huge blow very early in the campaign.


    The thing is though, JM, the Jedi are supposed to stand against against darkness and they're supposed to protect the galaxy. When invaders are killing and enslaving innocent people, it should be the Jedi's duty to defend the galaxy and its inhabitants. How can defending innocents from death and slavery be darkside?







    MasterSkywalker86:
    That's a great point, MS!







    Jedi Ben:
    I completely agree, JB!



    It certainly made no sense.





    dewback_rancher:
    That is a great quote and says it all! :)







    Jedi Ben :
    It's too bad more don't show that kind of regard and respect for Luke.

    Speaking of coralskippers, that was also a great scene early in the NJO when Luke was alone in a damaged X-wing and he still managed to survive what Mara called "thousands" of coralskippers when she "caught his ship in hers.








    MasterSkywalker86:
    Congratulations, MS!


    I like Ben, but I agree that, like Luke, Ben has suffered at the hands of many authors. I do agree with you that they shouldn't have made Ben an assassin at age 12 or 13.





    It would seem so!



    Yet so many still say that Luke didn't try to redeem Jacen.


    I think so too!






    VanishingReality:
    I understand what you're saying VR, but I still think Luke would treat both equally. As MS said, Luke himself was raised as a non-Force sensitive. Plus, I think he would be concerned about the non-Force sensitive having esteem issues.


    Yes, that's what I think.


    That's a good possibility. As you said, Luke has many other gifts besides the Force. Who knows? Maybe this child would have totally different gifts. Maybe he/she could become a skilled doctor or lawyer or statesman or scientist.







    MasterSkywalker86:

    I agree.
  4. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    Yet so many still say that Luke didn't try to redeem Jacen.

    yes and when i hear that i get a little upset. there is plenty of evidence first off that Luke did not know Jacen was a dark sider until late in the game. When he did know, he DID take steps to redeem him. He had some suspicions, but Luke did not know for sure until Inferno.
    VanishingReality likes this.
  5. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    JediMatteus : Child of Winds: Yet so many still say that Luke didn't try to redeem Jacen.


    EXACTLY! There is very little time in-universe between when Luke found out how far gone to the darkside Jacen was and Jacen's death in Invincible.
  6. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4
    Indeed. Heck, the entire Legacy of the Force Series took place over what? A year max? Jacen/Caedus spent a lot of time working in the shadows, and was therefore able to come off as misguided from Luke's point of view (Because that's what it's all about lol) And the fact that he did have good intentions didn't help. Then there was that whole "Dark Man" business, along with the Corellians to take up Luke's time.
  7. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    yes, they had such an intimate experience with their force bond. I look forward to rereading it once I get to it.

    I know what you mean, it's too bad we don't get to see this in a few more books..where he displays his mastery of telekinesis ?

    the only issue is we didn't get to see this on panel but it was mentioned in the audio drama....sigh. another crime of the EU.

    it's so dumb why rush to age him so quickly ? the YJK did a good job with the younger characters without aging them why cant the same be done for Ben ?
  8. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    Exactly. Jacen may have been acting off since he returned from his sojourn, but Luke repetitively discussed philosophy with him in DNT and then also went to lengths to convince Jacen in Tempest. He tries to sit down with Jacen a few weeks later, having spent that time collecting evidence to present to Jacen, and the Confederation attacks Corellia. Next thing we know, Jacen abandons Luke and Mara at Gilatter less than a fortnight later, and then less than a fortnight later takes over the GA and then kills Mara. It's all a lot to happen in a very short time - there are about four months between Betrayal and Sacrifice.

    It's barely a fortnight later that the Battle of Kuat happens, and Luke leaves.

    Between Mara's death and the decision to kill Caedus, Luke has four months in which to stop him and the Jedi square off against Jacen three times in Fury and then again in Revelation, trying to capture him in every instance, and in that time period Jacen goes from co-Chief of State to the person who burned Kashyyyk, kidnapped his daughter, nuked Fondor, and all but re-instated the Empire over the galaxy as the sole leader of the Alliance.

    LotF takes no more than ten months, starting at the end of 40 ABY and going into 41 ABY in Exile.

    In those ten months Luke and other Jedi face Lumiya six times, and kill her, Alema six times, and kill her, and also have to deal with a Sith Meditation Sphere, a galactic civil war, and being on the run from the main galactic government during at least half of that time. Time in which the GA transforms into the Empire and Caedus nearly conquers the galaxy.

    He did all he could and then some.
  9. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Heh, Sinny had to make an appearance once that topic came up! :)
  10. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4
    LOL the point is that though he became Darth Vader 2.0, from the viewpoints of those around him, Jacen's fall wasn't nearly as obvious as Anakin Skywalker's was. There are legitimate reasons for Luke not having noticed the exact minute Jacen became a Sith, the kid didn't march through a temple slaughtering Younglings after all.
    Last edited by DarthJenari, May 5, 2013
  11. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

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    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    So in honor of May the 4th, we watched RotJ. I really don't get the perception by authors and fans that Luke is either a wide-eyed farmboy, a do-nothing monk, or soft-hearted redeemer-junkie. Incidentally, I also don't get how people think that Boba Fett is some uber-warrior.

    Think about it: Luke walked -completely unarmed- into the HQ of the worst crime lord in the galaxy after the first attempt at negotiations failed and essentially said "look, either give me Han Solo and I will pay you a crap-ton of money, or I will kill everybody up in this place and take him anyway." One dead giant mutant nightmare monster later, Jabba decides he's gonna execute the lot. Luke's response? "Dumb****! Shoulda took the money!"

    Luke then modifies his earlier statement. "Last chance, dude. Either you let us walk out of here, or I will kill everybody up in this place and we walk anyway."
    This is where Boba Fett's ineptitude becomes screamingly apparent, especially in light of the PT. He has seen firsthand what tactics do and don't work against a Jedi. He knows what a holy terror combat beast a Skywalker can be. He knows that getting within arms reach of a Jedi with a lightsaber is a quick way to get "Highlander-ed." He knows that the best way to take down a Jedi is from far far away. Preferably with explosives. While they're distracted.

    He has seen a Skywalker take down a giant mutant nightmare monster with little more than the remains of its former victims. And now, literally out of the clear blue sky, he has a Jedi's signature weapon, which he is using to rapidly kill everybody up in the place. Just like he said he would. Knowing all this, what does Boba Fett do?

    Yup. Flies closer to the holy terror combat beast.:oops:

    He manages by some miracle to not immediately loose his head, and Luke bypasses him to continue killing everybody up in the place as promised. Boba Fett now has a distracted Jedi far away. He takes slow...careful...aim...aaaaand....

    Misses. By a lot.

    He then gets taken out by a blind swing and goes out screaming like a Bieber fan. The whole thing is played for laughs. And Luke makes good on his promise to kill everybody up in the place before leaving.
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  12. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    "Blasters and jetpacks are no match for hokey religions and a good ancient weapon at your side kid." ;)
  13. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Yep, you definitely shouldn't get Luke angry! If you look closely, he is much more dangerous than someone like Batman because when it is really necessary, he will kill and Batman and co usually refuse to do that.

    How they could screw him up so much in NJO I still don't understand.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, May 5, 2013
  14. SiouxFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2012
    star 3
    Nah, they didn't screw him up until Swarm War.
  15. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Word to the wise if NJO is setting off red flags for you now it only gets worse from here. LotF is basically like taking a lightsaber blade to the heart of post RotJ era EU and FotJ brings it down as well And by the looks of it Crucible wont be winning any fans either.

    I hope ST will fix this
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  16. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    The lack of action on Luke's part for 6-7 Njo books says otherwise
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, May 5, 2013
  17. SiouxFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2012
    star 3
    'Wars not make one great'--Yoda.

    Is this the only thing that makes Luke great? DOING? Sometimes NOT doing is just as important as DOING the wrong thing. IMO, Luke was trying to get a grip on what it meant to be the leader of the Jedi Order, that maybe his earlier stance in the war needed to be re-examined.

    His over-the-top high-handedness in Swarm War is what suggests otherwise. I hope that the ST fixes this mess as well.
  18. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Wars don't make you great, that's true, but sometimes fighting is a necessity, something Yoda knows very well. He, after all, is the one who sent Luke after Vader.

    Yes, sometimes not doing is a better idea. But under the circumstances of the Vong war not doing was suicidal foolishness.
  19. SiouxFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2012
    star 3
    Yoda had almost 20 years to come up with his plan. Luke was trying to buy time to formulate his.

    At that time in the war, I doubt that adding the full weight of Luke Skywalker would've changed much. Are you saying that they would've won sooner if Luke 'would've done something'? What exactly would've he done? The Vong War, like WWII here, was a war of attrition and was only going to be over when one of the sides had exhausted themselves.
  20. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    When has Luke sit idle by when innocents were in danger ? I'm sorry but inaction and being reserved doesn't explain why Luke and the jedi couldn't go on the defensive and rescue refugees while not taking the aggressive path. If it wasn't for Invasions we would still have a Luke who did nothing for a year while people were dying. As for taking command, how's that possible when Kyp did as he please for half the series ?
  21. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    If I recall it took one book for Luke to behead the Overlord of the Vong :p In seriousness, Luke's power would help delay the losses and save more lives. But the Vong had greater numbers, no matter how many platoons or fleets he took down there would be double the number to replace them. Not to mention Luke can only be at one place and the Vong were attavking planets simultaneously. Since the Vong had the greater advantage I would ask why would you bench your star player when you need all the help you are going to get ?
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  22. SiouxFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2012
    star 3
    On this I agree. I'm not saying I LIKE Luke's decisions, in fact, I dislike them. I'm just offering some explanation FOR them. I've not read the comics, so I have nothing for that. I would argue that they are a retcon for exactly the point you make--not that SW ever retcons anything.

    I'm not sure what you mean by 'taking command'. Luke didn't really try to 'take command' of the Order until Swarm War, and I think that a gross over-reach.

    Why did they write him that way? Beats the hell out of me. I have had to accept a lot of things I don't like in the EU, so I feel your pain. IMO, the NJO was supposed to set the stage for younger Jedi taking over and letting the 'big three' fade to a more advisory role. However, the almighty dollar won out and we were forced to watch as they changed course on this initial plan.
    MasterSkywalker86 likes this.
  23. SiouxFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2012
    star 3
    Because they were getting their heads handed to them on every front. If you are relying on ONE man to be your savior, it does nothing but get him killed.
  24. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    They wrote Luke that way cause honestly they were going to kill him off instead of Chewie in VP. GL was the one who told them no and basically they had Luke do nothing of much importance for a good portion of NJO. Their excuse was the typical malarky of him being too powerful, so they limit his Force use, gave him Force exhaustion, and also treated all 40 year olds like they were 60.The fact that Invasions(comic) retcons Luke's inactivity basically sums up that the writing staff was wrong.

    As far as I'm concern post RotJ era EU died with the announcement of ST and honestly I'm all for it. The freeze on post RotJ era books more or less confirms it


    Thing is Siouxfan you had other jedi saving refugees, Kyp, Corrab, the entire YJK cast so why hold back Luke ? As I mention before you don't hold back your biggest gun.
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, May 5, 2013
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  25. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    First of all, some of the longtime posters may remember the poster, Hope. She was a Luke fan and used to post regularly in this SOS thread (which was started by our mutual online friend, Skydancer), and on the other boards, but she didn't like the post VotF EU, and hasn't posted much for quite a while. Her husband sent me an e-mail message this morning, letting me know that she had died rather suddenly after a recent short illness. I just thought you might want to know. May she rest in peace. @};-






    DarthJenari:


    Yes, I think the whole thing took place within about a year. Jacen went from a hero to Sith Lord to dead in less than a year. You're right that from Luke's point of view Jacen was able to come off as misguided. Even when he came to realize that Jacen was doing some questionable things, Luke thought that it was Lumiya who was causing the problem, influencing Jacen, and that if Lumiya could be removed from the picture, that Jacen would be just fine. What Luke didn't know was that Jacen was already a darksider ; was acting of his own volition; and was in partnership with Lumiya rather than being influenced by her.

    Yoda didn't know that Palpatine was a darksider for many, many years and he was right in front of Yoda's nose. Why be so upset with Luke not figuring out about Jacen for a few months?







    MasterSkywalker86:
    That would be nice.


    I agree with you, MS! I've always felt that Ben should have had his own young Jedi knight series, where he could have been developed and he could have worked with characters of his own age.







    SinrebirthSWC :
    Thanks for putting that into a nice, concise paragraph. It does show that not much time passed between Jacen's return and Sacrifice, AND that Luke didn't ignore Jacen. Once he realized that Jacen was acting "a bit off", Luke did try to help him. All Luke got for his efforts were to be abandoned at Gilatter (where Luke and Mara had gone to rescue Jacen!) and the loss of his wife.




    Thank you!!! I knew Luke had tried to redeem Jacen! I just didn't remember that he and the Jedi tried so many times! Why then is it that so many people seem to believe that Luke and the rest of the Jedi did nothing to try to redeem Jacen?



    Wow! I'll say Luke did "all he could and then some!" Ten months is even less time than I thought it was for Jacen to go from trusted hero to head of the GAG to Sith Lord to dead!!!


    Great post, Sinny! You showed that Luke was a lot more effective too than I remember him being in LotF.







    Jedi Ben:
    Sinny is a LotF expert!







    Jedi Merkurian :

    Good post, JM!


    That was pretty bold all right! ;) I do think Luke was likely putting on an act, at least partially, as you can't go into a crime lord's lair like a timid mouse, but still, it took a lot of guts.

    I've always loved Luke's "plan" to get the droids and his lightsaber into Jabba's palace. It was pretty much like the Trojan Horse: Beware of Jedi bearing gifts! ;)


    LOL! So true! Boba Fett was pretty stupid here! I've never understood the popularity of that character.



    Thanks for the chuckles, JM! I really enjoyed reading this post! ;)



    Luke definitely did what he said he would do! He was probably a lot more effective than he thought he would be too!







    MasterSkywalker86:

    Cute, MS! ;)









    Darth_Pevra:

    I never understood how the authors could get him so wrong so often either. In the NJO Luke sat by for far too long doing nothing while the YV invaded more and more of the galaxy and killed and enslaved more and more innocents. That wasn't like Luke at all. The absolute worst was when they had Luke sit by and do nothing when he knew the Jedi children were in danger on Yavin IV. Instead of Luke going to their rescue (and it was his duty as head of the Order to protect them), 15 year old Anakin Solo saved them. It made NO sense at all!







    MasterSkywalker86:

    Sadly, you are SO right, MS! :(







    SiouxFan:

    Yes, sometimes NOT DOING *is* as important as DOING, but in this case, I don't think so. When innocent people are dying by the millions and many more are being enslaved with those YV implants, there's no time to think about philosophy. It's simply time to ACT and stop the carnage. It's the duty of a Jedi to stand against darkness, and certainly the killing, enslaving, and destroying that the YV were doing was true darkness. The YV needed to be stopped and sitting passively by thinking about the Jedi's role and how they should act didn't cut it.








    Darth_Pevra:


    EXACTLY!!!






    SiouxFan:

    I think it could have been won earlier if Luke, the Jedi, and the GA had all worked together from the beginning. They needed a united front, and instead, they were all splintered. As for what they could have done, one example is that they could have destroyed that growing shipyard when it was in its infancy. That would have dealt a MAJOR blow to the YV right at the very beginning, and it might have changed everything. The YV might have decided that without those ships, they couldn't advance into the galaxy, and that maybe they would be better off moving on to another place.









    MasterSkywalker86:

    Yes, they were planning to kill off Luke. Then when George Lucas threw a hydrospanner in their plans by saying that they couldn't kill Luke, they didn't know what to do with him, as they hadn't planned to use Luke in the first place. So instead of coming up with a role for Luke that made sense for the character, they pretty much had Luke sitting on the sidelines for a good part of the NJO, as you said. This way, they didn't need to change as many of their original plans. :(


    I agree!
    Last edited by ChildOfWinds, May 5, 2013