Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

You mean besides the fact that he couldn't do anything against the Force Lightning barrage?

Did he win? Sure, but not by being stronger or more skilled. Back then he still had a long way to go from reaching his full potential.

 

You miss the point of the entire movie! Luke chose not to fight because he thought if he did he would become like his father. He would rather die than be corrupted by his anger. Such was the strength of his conviction. And in standing to his principles, he inspired Vader in return.

 

Which doesn't change the fact that he was weaker than Sidious. Him redeeming his father doesn't change that. Also, Luke did actively try to deflect the lightning and failed.

The entire point of the fight was about light overcoming darkness and redemption, not strength, which is fine. Still a great movie, and Luke was still inferior to the Emperor.

 

He threw away his only defense, his lightsaber. And yet you tell me he should've defended himself against Palpatine, when he knew in his heart that he was already teetering to close to the dark side. Obviously you didn't grasp what his act was all about. If he had fought and killed, he would've fallen and Luke knew that.

And no, he didn't try to deflect the lightning, he just flailed around in pain.

 

It's called defending yourself with the Force. Read the novel, Luke wonders why Yoda had never mentioned such an attack, attempts to defend against it, does for a moment, and is then overcome by it again. Defending yourself isn't an act of aggression and has nothing to do with falling to the Dark Side.

The fact he chose not to cut Sidious down doesn't then mean ROTJ Luke>Sidious lol that's ridiculous.

 

Again, because I can't stress that enough, he threw away his means of defense. Meaning, obviously, that he didn't plan to defend himself. He was ready to die.

And I don't much care what the novel says. I can think myself thank you very much.

 

Only means of defense? Has it not been constantly stated that a Jedi always has the Force for such defense? Was that not one of the main lessons Yoda taught Luke? He also didn't know about Force Lightning when he threw away his lightsaber. Him throwing away said lightsaber also doesn't prove he wasn't stronger than Palpatine.

Ok bro.

 

Maybe not his only means of defense but it was clear enough what point he was making. Luke didn't want to fight. Period. You only throw your frigging weapon away when you accept death.

Maybe if you thought about these movies more you would get a greater appreciation of them.

 

Really? Accepting death? But then begging your father to save you? Ok dude.

And i'm still not sure how any of this then means that Luke was stronger than Sidious.

 

Obviously when you are in intense pain you try to get out of it. But he still didn't defend himself even after the initial bursts of lightning, not even with TK which he was shown to possess.

I don't know which one is stronger and I don't care because these fights are not like maths were you can easily calculate the outcome. But he was definitely strong enough to take out Palpatine, yes.

Sigh. I just needed discussing with stubborn mules after I lost half a tooth today and had an endondontic therapy. My mood is sithly.

 

So let me see if I understand this. Luke had accepted his death, but changed his mind upon being blasted with Force Lightning and decided he wanted to escape it. So instead of attempting to defend himself, he begged his father for help and continued to lay on the ground being electrocuted? I see, and of course the fact the novel outright states he attempted to defend himself and failed means nothing.

The movie and novel certainly didn't show that as being true.

Always nice to run into someone who needs to insult the people he debates with.

 

He was in excruciating pain then, you know. That tends to influence behavior. Dying a quick lightsaber death is one thing, but being barbecued like that is really bad.

Plus he didn't use TK. He could've force choked Palpatine but he didn't.

 

Right, right of course. And Luke was so influenced that he chose not to defend himself at all, but beg his father instead.

Because that automatically would've worked on Palpatine had Luke tried it right?

 

Begging wasn't gonna make him fall to the darkside, using the force would.

Anyways, we'll just have to agree to disagree, if you got any other "issues" I will just ignore you. What you do in a Luke fan thread is beyond my understanding.

 

Uh Luke did not know how to counter force lighting save for instinct so to say he was fully prepared is simply not accurate


But yeah agree to disagree we been going in circles with this topic. In other news nice avatar there DP

 

That, again, is an EU interpretation to explain that what didn't need explanation.

When Yoda says that he knows enough I believe the guy.

 

Talk about getting into a mess over nothing! The OT has nothing to worry about. Consider how a PT-OT duel contest would end up going:

And it's Vader vs Ki-adi Mundi - Mundi does several flips, several flashy strikes but Vader parries with minimal then kicks Mundi in the nuts and then with a blow to the head, it's a technical KO!

Now Yoda! Will his bunny-on-speed style succeed where Mundi failed? No, Vader times it just right to bisect the green midget! The Jedi are appealing against the brutality.

Darth Maul versus Luke Skywalker! Surely the young student cannot possibly prevail against the cocky and aggressive Sith? But no, Skywalker blocks Maul's attacks carefully, then disarms him with one well-timed strike that is the very image of his father.

 

Re: Sidious' Sith Lightning

It's made pretty clear that Sidious' lightning is beyond that of anyone else, only Yoda was able to block it and only for a finite time, Sid could have fried Luke in a split-second but decided to play with him instead, only to find that Luke actually had a bigger dog able to deck the vicious cat frying him - once he made up his mind to do so.

Re: strength / power

I don't know how anyone can watch the OT and think it's about being as powerful as your adversaries, the point surely is that it's not. At Endor the Empire have an overwhelming material military advantage of the kind that should have assured them victory, Sidious was the Sith Lord of the millennium and Vader was no slouch. There should have been no way for them to lose... yet there was.

 

Just to be clear, I never once said it mattered that Sidious was more powerful. Simply that he was.

 

I think had Luke been able to mastered Force block, he would have been able to master it. That said he does so for a little while in the RotJ novelization.

Although I think potential and power should be highlighted as the differences between the two. Yes Luke becomes more powerful than Sidious in the EU but at the point of RotJ was he ? No

 

It is likely Luke may have been able to block standard Force Lightning but Sith Lightning of the magnitude Sidious blasted him with? No.

 

I also think Luke would have blocked the Force lightenings, had he been able to. I admit I'm colored by the novelization, though, where it's said he was overwhelmed by them. Still, I think muhc of the discussion above comes from how you define 'powerful'. In terms of raw power, Luke's more powerful than Sidious, and he is this even before he was trained. But that doesn't mean he's learned to master these powers. Obviously, the more powerful you are, the more there could be for you to learn too.

 

What I'm thinking of is that there are certain Dark Side abilities that a Jedi can have no defence against, save for an exceptional few. As a large part of the allure of the dark side is it grants you power unavailable by any other means, often of the most perverse, malign and destructive kind in return for your soul. Sidious' Sith Lightning even was able to redirect through 180 degrees to hit Vader! Therefore it could have evaded a lightsaber blade too. The difference? Force Lightning goes up to level 10, Sith Lightning up to 11 and keeps on going!

 

Saved that both Luke and Anakin were destined to best Sidious in power. It might have took 3 Skywalkers to break Palpatine's control over the force storm in DE but it is possible that a seasoned Luke could do the same. Luke has that Rocky Balboa like quality of adapting the second round and overcoming an enemy's new Force ability

 

Yes to Kataja listen, remember your failure at the cave.

I think K has it dead on, with the debate of potential and power, which basically comes to an argument of raw power and refined skill.

JB, I believe you are right to a certain degree, saved that the light side has an answer to every dark side ability. I do agree that Palptine's lighting could overpower any jedi but Luke isn't just some "any jedi". I believe he would overcome it with training