Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    Goran Beviin and Medrit Vasur, Mandalorians, were a gay couple, but that is it. And even then it was very subtle; the words "gay" or "homosexual" or "husband" were never used. Vasur was called Beviin's "partner" and Vasur made a joke about how Boba had a hot wife, but he couldn't tell because he was "no expert." Edit: Oh, I forgot a few SWTOR characters, but it's a Bioware game so it's not really a shock.

    It would certainly be silly to make Luke Skywalker gay. Especially since he was established to be in love with Leia (before he knew she was his sister) and, in EU, had multiple relationships with women, marrying Mara Jade. It would be like announcing that Captain America was going to be gay in Avengers 2. :confused:
    Last edited by Revanfan1, Nov 2, 2013
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  2. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    Nevermind the post-ROTJ EU, it undermines his character from the original film and especially the radio drama.
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Nov 2, 2013
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  3. Revanfan1 Chosen One

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    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    Sarcasm, yeah?
  4. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    Not sure what you mean? I'm just saying, if we throw out everything about Luke Skywalker except the original film and novelization (and radio drama though that was produced in 1981), it still undermines his character. He's a farm boy that daydreams of being a hero and rescuing a princess.
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  5. Revanfan1 Chosen One

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    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    Oh. I misunderstood your statement. Yes, I totally agree with you. No matter how they tried to justify it, doing it would definitely undermine everything Lucas had in mind when he made ANH.
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  6. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    That's what I don't get about this gay Mandalorian couple, because like Albus Dumbledore from Harry Potter, they aren't specifically referred to as anything of the sort, to the point a lot of people apparently missed it. Why even bother with using such characters if they aren't going to state it in the text? The short story Dirt, from the anthology Halo: Evolutions, is the only story I have ever seen that makes it clear in the text such characters are, in the case of this story, lesbians.

    Good thing I have stayed well away from the Episode VII forums, because if I saw that kind of osik firsthand, I would probably give whoever suggested it and anyone who agreed with it, a piece of my mind. Things like "Luke Skywalker should be gay" make it difficult for me to take calls for diversity seriously.
  7. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    but how will Luke stay relevant if they don't make something edgy to his character ? :rolleyes: :p

    @Revanfan1, Luke also had a crush on Camie which was mention in the novelization. And yeah its clear that both Luke and Cap are straight
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Nov 2, 2013
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  8. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

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    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Iron_lord:
    I disagree about that. Luke fought the dark side through Vader and Vastor before his experience on Byss, so any "understanding" that he got wasn't vital to fighting it.

    Also, as I said, Stackpole was trying to mesh his story with Zahn's duology. They both said that you could think of I, Jedi and that duology as basically being a trilogy that connected to one another. Since Zahn had Mara lecture Luke and say that everything Luke touched in the years between DE and VotF were "tainted" with the dark side, Stackpole put some emphasis into the DE events as well.






    Jedi Ben:
    Yes, you have.... But does that mean you would be okay with them changing this aspect of SW history if this is now the new canon version of the beginning of Rogue Squadron? I know that I won't be pleased... not at all! Hey! I like Wedge too, but I say don't diminish Luke to put Wedge in the spotlight. Luke is more than just a Jedi and I would hate having them make Luke Jedi only. Zahn seems to have done this to Luke in Allegiance and CoO also. Luke doesn't demonstrate any other talents/gifts besides the Force in either of those books. I don't like this trend of turning Luke into a "one trick pony".






    Revanfan1:
    That's absolutely ridiculous! I went to check the comments, and they are indeed stupid. I didn't write a comment though, because I think some of these people just like to get attention and make other people angry, so I decided not to "feed the trolls" there. Luke was very attracted to Leia until he found out she was his sister. That was obvious in the first two films. Some people just like to shove their personal social agendas into everything.

    Sadly, I also think that some people really don't like the character of Luke Skywalker, so they want to have him written in ways that would be controversial. (as having him gay would very definitely be) . Also, some don't want Luke to have any kids of his own. They're even fine with Luke adopting kids, which doesn't make any sense at all. I mean, if they "buy into" the idea that Jedi don't have families, how is having an adopted child different from having a biological child???? Plus, they're fine with Leia having kids even if she is a Jedi. It's a double standard, no doubt. It seems to suggest and anti-Luke bias for some.





    DarthJenari:
    I agree. It's a terrible idea. Fortunately, I really don't think we're going to be seeing Disney change Luke's character this way.






    DigitalMessiah: Luke's motivation in the first film was to save the princess?

    It was certainly a large part of his motivation!

    Right!







    Revanfan1:
    Exactly! And the audience wouldn't "buy" it either.
  9. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Saw your post after I had already posted mine.

    Zeta1127:
    I agree. It simply makes no sense.
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  10. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Maybe- nonetheless, that's what Luke told his students.

    Several of the lines from Luke in both Dark Empire and I,Jedi, are compiled into one recording he made for his students, shown in Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to The Force.
  11. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    I agree with you all; I chose not to say anything because their responses probably would've just made me mad, so I left well enough alone and came over hear to speak of it with people who actually understand Luke as a character.
  12. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

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    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Iron_lord: ChildOfWinds said: ↑
    Sadly, I think too many authors wrote Luke pretty poorly, even forgetting his own previous experiences, evidently.


    Who wrote the Essential Guide to the Force again? I remember hearing some other comments from that book that I didn't like. The author of that book wrote some parts that weren't particularly complimentary to Luke, it seems. :(







    Revanfan1:
    Yes, I think that's the best. As I said, some people seem to just like getting attention by being controversial.
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  13. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Ryder Windham. Can't recall any particularly uncomplimentary moments- only him being bracketed with Anakin in the "has killed in anger- and therefore can't be fully redeemed- can only atone" category.
  14. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    It'd be a poor story that didn't feature them both!

    Thing is, when I think about it seriously, I do see Wedge as more suited to the command role in the immediate aftermath of Yavin, in respect of having to develop the skills of the squad, keep them alive, inspire them to be confident without being too cocky. Luke is far more the lead star pilot, with an uncanny knack for knowing what to do at the right point in a battle and knows it. Seeing the command and lead roles I';m setting out here as being hierarchal or adversarial would be a mistake, as both need to work well together to really make it fly. Plus we know, as of 3 years later, Luke is commanding the squadron so he does grow into the role. Luke could well work out very well as the XO, because that's who people talk to first and, in doing that, Luke gains the experience and skills he needs for command. Why would Wedge step aside? He'd do it for the good of the squadron.
  15. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Iron_lord: :
    Thanks for letting me know who wrote Jedi vs. Sith.

    I would say that's pretty uncomplimentary!!!! :mad: First of all, whom did Luke kill in anger?

    Secondly, even if he did kill someone in anger, after all of the countless people whose lives Luke has saved, isn't that SAD if Luke can never be redeemed, even if he is sorry (and we know he WOULD be, as he is even sorry about those who died aboard the Death Star and for causing the deaths of those troopers in LSatSoM even though he didn't mean to kill them.) if he killed just one person in anger???? One mistake causes eternal damnation with no hope of redemption?????

    I remember someone saying something about Tionne writing something too that was uncomplimentary to Luke in that book. Is the one you mentioned above the one involving Tionne?






    Jedi Ben:
    I can agree with that. Both of them were instrumental in the creation of Rogue Squadron after all.


    Why do you think Wedge would be better when the leader of Red Squadron obviously chose Luke over Wedge to LEAD the squadron on the Death Star run? Why didn't he choose Wedge if he felt that Wedge would be a better leader? Wedge's ship wasn't damaged at that point, As I said, it's not as though Wedge is much older than Luke either. Plus, it has already been established that Luke was the first leader of Rogue Squadron.

    The lead pilot is usually the squadron leader.

    I just read the latest issue of the Woods Star wars comic, and in it, he has Wedge coming up with the name and concept of Rogue Squadron, yet in A Guide to the SW universe 3rd edition ( don't have the first or second edition), which was printed in 2000, it says: It was Luke who originated the concept of a squadron without a set mission profile. Without standing Orders, his "Rogue Squadron" could take on any and all missions that came its way. He combined the best pilots with the best fighters and taught them to work as a single unit. When Luke finally resigned to spend more time with his Jedi studies, Wedge took charge of the squadron.

    I'm not at all happy about this "retcon".
  16. VanishingReality Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2013
    star 3
    I'm not entirely sure how much gender and species mattered to him on his desperate quest for companionship. (Although he apparently drew the line very clearly considering Human/Droid romance an abomination when it came to Cray and Nichos. Until he turned around and dated a ghost computer thing.) I'd say it definitely adds to Luke's character to have his trademark strong preference for human females that are evil.

    xD

    Also, didn't Camie bully him? Case in point.
  17. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Lumiya at the very least.

    It's Tionne's account of how she asked the Holocron (not the one in JAT, a later one) various questions about Anakin, Luke, Kyp, etc, and got the same answer each time.

    "Not redeemed in life" may not be the same thing as "eternal damnation" it may be more "sent to a limbo - where they may be redeemed later".
  18. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    See, in terms of the immediate story, with this new squadron - which isn't the Rogues - I still don't think Luke has the wider skills required for command just yet - but it's more than likely he does acquire those quickly - Wedge probably gives him a bit of help too, which in turn allows for a very neat set-up.

    I'm seeing it slightly differently to you in that there's a difference between knowing the right move to make in a battle at the right time, which in Luke's case, will be Force-enhanced, and the wider mindset to actually make a squadron work. Immediately after Yavin, Luke doesn't have that - chances are good within 6 months he will.

    As to the latest ret-con - meh.

    And with this latest SW story in mind, I now know I'm unlikely to be embracing whatever the new EU is, as it will most likely trample over a few too many stories I'm quite attached to.
  19. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4

    I remember that. I thought that was one of the more interesting parts of the guide, in that it made it clear for the first time just how limited Holocrons are. They're basically computers and can only say or do so much. The way it was programmed wouldn't allow it to give any different kind of response, which always made me wonder, if the person who created it (Don't remember the Jedi's name) was still alive and met Luke, or Anakin Skywalker's Force Ghost, or Uliq's, etc would he have changed his mind? Because the way I see it it'd all depend on life experience. If he'd never seen redemption, makes some sense that he doesn't believe in it.
  20. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    That would be Tolaris Shim - she composed that section (of what may have been the Great Holocron) after Ulic's apparent redemption (or at least, rejection of the Dark Side after being cut off from the Force) but before his death.

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Tolaris_Shim
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Nov 5, 2013
  21. VanishingReality Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2013
    star 3
    Plus Luke didn't harm anyone in Dark Empire that I remember, and Kyp Durron destroyed an entire star system.

    However, I seem to remember in Dark Empire, Luke force choked Han. That was completely over the line. (Maybe he was actually choking. Same difference)
  22. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    It was actual choking rather than Force choking (or at least, holding him up by the neck making it difficult for him to breathe.)

    Luke also kills all the "mindless" Emperor clones - except for the one that Palpatine possesses in time to take on Luke.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Nov 5, 2013
  23. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4
    He was also commander of Palpatine's fleet wasn't he? Numerous people would've died, albeit indirectly through whatever orders he gave, etc.
  24. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Yup. One order to attack a Mon Cal city (even if it's just to keep the rest of Palpatine's officers from realizing his Cunning Plan to Sabotage The Whole Attack) - and a harsh Jedi judge like Tolaris Shim could easily say he just killed a whole bunch of innocents.
  25. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Hi folks! What have I missed the past week?
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