Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Not much.

The usual argument over whether it was logical for the post Dark Empire books (until Leland Chee decided otherwise) to interpret the events of Dark Empire as "Luke fell to the Dark Side" - or whether they went against the intent of the writers of the comic.

 

Leland Chee, who was appointed as continuity expert by LFL.

hi kataja

 

True. Still, between Dark Empire and that book he wrote in, an awful lot of books said "Luke fell" - sometimes as "omniscient narration."

 

u act like retcons haven't happen before in the world of EU

 

True. Still, it was a bit annoying to have so many books contradicted suddenly.

 

eh, some retcons work others not so much

 

IronLord:

Well, actually he didn't kill Lumiya in anger. He was "calm... eerily calm" when he swung the lightsaber and cut off her head. However, he did kill her for revenge.

Which would still be terribly harsh for Luke after all of the good he has done. I don't think it would be fair. We already saw Anakin in "Jedi Heaven". If he made it there after all of the evil he committed, I can't imagine that Luke would be 'sent to limbo". I disagree with Ryder Windham.






Jedi Ben:

And I really don't like this new story. I don't think Luke is written well at all. He's written as less mature than he was in ANH, which happened several months earlier.

You still haven't answered my question though, JB. If this is true, WHY did the leader of Red Squadron choose LUKE as his successor instead of Wedge? And Red Leader didn't know at the time that Luke had any Force gifts. At this time, his Force gifts were so minimal as to be practically non-existent too.

They certainly don't seem to be starting this "new Continuity" off on the right foot, I agree.







DarthJenari:

I like your take on this DJ! I wish something like this would have been said in that book though.





VanishingReality:"

As I said, Luke has always been hard on himself. I can see himself blaming himself for even going to Byss and pretending to join the Emperor even though he didn't actually do anything evil or fall to the dark side, but only "nearly" fell. As you said, Luke didn't harm anyone in DE.

Luke also told Mara in VotF that he *didn't* fall.






Iron_lord:

Wouldn't that be pretty much like killing the Emperor, trying to stop the Emperor's evil?






DarthJenari:

The orders that caused the deaths of Alliance members and the Mon Calamari had already been given by Palpatine. The deaths of those 'numerous people" was on the Emperor, not Luke. The orders that Luke gave, once Palpatine made him the commander, caused the Emperor's war machines and weapons of mass destruction to be destroyed. He sabotaged the Emperor's plans and ships and sent the Alliance Imperial codes. Luke's efforts SAVED many, many Alliance lives and the lives of many, many innocent people. Luke was working pretty much like an undercover agent, trying to help the Alliance while behind enemy lines.







kataja:

Hi, K! Welcome back! You've missed yet another DE discussion, as well as a discussion about the Woods' SW comic. Did you hear the latest? Apparently, Rogue Squadron wasn't started as a collaborative effort by Luke, Wedge, and one other guy, but a creation of Wedge only. It looks like Wedge will now be the first Rogue Leader, though Luke has always been written as the first leader of Rogue Squadron.

 

Luke should remain as the founder at least

 

Especially since Wedge did absolutely nothing in the battle of Yavin. I watched it recently and was completely disappointed with Wedges performance and retreat. It just seemed cowardly when everyone else sacrificed themselves for their mission.

 

Luke orders him: "Get clear, Wedge. You can't do any more good back there"

with a busted thruster, he's not going to be able to keep a steady course in the trench.

 

There are so many reasons why I could not buy that scene for Wedge. The battle of Yavin is the most important battle in Star Wars. The fate of the galaxy is in the balance and judging by the Infinities there is no going back if they lose. Wedge has already lost all of his friends, but even acting as a buffer and distracting Vader for a split second would be invaluable time, like what Biggs accomplished. Luke was only Red Three, so Wedge outranked Luke and didn't have to follow any specific orders, he could have chosen to do anything in this moment of truth.

But instead, Wedge just hangs out offscreen hoping for the a miracle Corrlian Freighter from nowhere to bail them out.

 

All righty then. Yeah, that's been up before...

Well, the comics always arrive late to Denmark, but just yesterday I got my fingers into issue #10 where L&W talk and Wedge suggests "Rogue Squadron" as name for the squadron Leia's assembled... I dunno. I still quite like the story and I must admit it doesn't really bother me who ventures the name first. It's a great scene where Wedge opens up and is the soft one of the two. And while it's Wedge who comes up with the name, Luke approves of it and comments Biggs would have liked it too, so it feels enough like collaboration to satisfy me. Also, we know that at Yavin Wedge is senior in experience but that Luke will surpass him at some point, so I don't really care if that point is before or just after founding Rogues S. In my eyes it's still every bit as much Luke's squadron as Wedges.

 

Luke's already giving orders to Wedge and Biggs the moment Red Leader is dead, and the response is "Right with you, boss"

Rebels don't care that much about seniority- what matters is who's got that "take charge" knack.

Main reason I think he probably did, offscreen is that:


http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IfYoureSoEvilEatThisKitten

is a very common trope for villains- and Palpatine's sheer confidence that Luke is in the process of Turning, doesn't make sense unless Luke's given him reason to think that Palpatine's plan is working.

 

I'm not really seeing the lines between Luke and his soon-to-be-fried-by-Vader Squadron Leader as being: "Take over afterwards" - More: "I'm dead, over to you."

Plus, if you asked Luke if he was up to being in charge of a squadron he'd likely say no. Luke's problem isn't that he has gifts, but that it takes time for him to see them! It was DE that forced him to start training Jedi, it would have been the need for a different kind of squadron that likely saw him and Wedge create Rogue Squadron, but then Luke had the confidence to see that he could pull it off. There needs to be that story really.

Although K's account renders this entire line of discussion somewhat moot.

And, if we're going to end up slagging off Wedge in order to make Luke look better at Yavin, then we really are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

If anything, what the Star Wood series has demonstrated to me is that SW stories do need a light touch because they are very dark. Look at the casualty rate for Yavin, it has to be 90%+! Dwell on that too much or the annihilation of Alderaan and it quickly becomes very dark indeed. Wood is trying to do a more realistic take on SW but it falls down on this point for me.

 

well considering every second his mind is being subtly influenced by the DS nexus its no wonder why Sidious is so confident

 

JediMatteus:

I agree, JM!







VanishingReality:

Well, Luke did tell Wedge to leave because he had a damaged starfighter. BUT, the point here is that LUKE *was* "calling the shots", he *was* giving the orders. Luke *was* in charge of Red Squadron once Red Leader told Luke to take the other fighters and lead the run.... and Luke responded to the responsibility well. He led the group like a natural, and he seemed to gain maturity during the battle. And Wedge didn't seem to have any problem with Luke being the one that Red Leader put in charge either.

Why would Luke regress afterwards?

Then why didn't Red Leader tell Wedge to lead the group instead of Luke?





kataja:

Again though, it was Luke who was supposed to have come up with the concept of Rogue Squadron, and it certainly shouldn't have been a squadron that Leia put together. Again, that was something that Luke and Wedge were supposed to have done together. And I repeat: Luke was supposed to be the first Rogue Leader.

Well, at this point, it looks more like LEIA's squadron, which is completely overwriting previous canon.
I don't like it at all.






Iron_lord:

EXACTLY!!!! Luke is already demonstrating leadership qualities. I ask again, why should he regress three months later?

And Luke has that! He demonstrated that during the Battle of Yavin. So why is he such an immature jerk in the Woods comic?

And that's conjecture on your part. Notice it said in that piece that you linked to that most heroes find a third option or fail. Luke found a third option. He found a way to make it look like he was leading the Imperial forces while he was actually sabotaging them. The text does not tell us that Luke committed any evil acts and since Chee said Luke only "nearly" falls, I choose to think that Luke didn't kill innocents and that he tried to save as many people as possible.

Why do people WANT Luke to be evil/do evil things? I really don't understand why some people like it when heroes become villains. It makes no sense to me.





Jedi Ben:

I don't think Wedge is any better than Luke. And it looks like this squadron WILL become the Rogues.

You're right that he told Luke to start his group's run when he had lost his engine and realized that he didn't have a chance. However, earlier in the battle, Red Leader told Luke to take some of the X-wings and wait to lead the next run. Wedge was one of those X-wing pilots. Why did Red Leader choose Luke over Wedge?

You're probably right. Luke would downplay his abilities, but that doesn't mean he couldn't do it. He already proved he could in the Yavin battle. He was quite mature for an 18 year old, and the others were willing to follow him and his orders as their "boss".

How so, JB?

I'm not "slagging off" Wedge. I'm just pointing out that Red Leader passed over Wedge to Luke in that battle, and that Wedge accepted Luke as "boss". Luke did very well at Yavin. No need to try to make him "look better" by diminishing Wedge.

If anything though, I would say that Woods' story "slags" Luke to make Wedge (and Leia) look better.

 

I wonder if Woods forgot that Luke was Rogue Leader in ESB? Or will Wedge just transfer leadership to Luke later on?

 

Possibly because it lends poignancy to his willingness to believe Kyp can be redeemed- because he's been in a similar position.

I, Jedi Luke: "I have been redeemed. I have been a redeemer".

 

I remember reading the Battle of Yavin (yeah, I read ANH before I saw it, only weeks after after seeing ESB in the theaters) and part thinking: 'cool' and part thinlking ' how would the alliance military's take on that be?. Even as 11 years old, I had a feeling that while some things might work smoothly out in the (battle) field, there's always an organization behind that's more rigid. Besides, in the long run, it takes more to a be leader than being a great pilot and having leader abilities. And as an adult, I must admit that if I was in Alliance Command, I'd put Wedge's experience and training before a green youngster fresh from the farm. I'd know the latter would climb ranks quickly if he'd have it in him. I don't mind a but more realism - and these days canon is up and changing anyway, so I don't really see the point of complaining that either - not as long as Luke doesn't come off bad. And IMO he doesn't in Wood's comic!

This is a great point. So very true! Though my subjective opinion is that Wood does an ok job.

 

That would be the simplest solution.

Re: Star Wood

I'm all for the Rebs pulling off an against-the-odds win but winning against an Interdictor and Star Destroyer with a cobbled together super-bomb pretty much broke my sense of belief in the story, as did Bircher's decision to only use the TIE Interceptors - what sort of moron is he?

 

Yeah, Star Wood started out with some potential, especially Luke-wise, but it died off fast. Honestly I'm mostly sick of the post-Yavin to pre-Hoth time period, but its always been one of the most busy time periods. Although these days, its also one of the safer time periods, since post-RotJ is probably going to be wiped out by Episode VII and Dark Times and earlier don't apply to Luke of course. Actually, with how little Han has done, it would have been nice if this was set post-Hoth and pre-Endor since its not like Han has contributed anything, but then Luke is supposed to be busy looking for Han at that point in time too. I'm buying the next issue, but only for the cover alone, otherwise I already dropped the Star Wood series a while ago.

It doesn't help that the series touches on a lot of already well-worn Luke stories- Vader hunting for Luke, a random girlfriend (well, sort of, forget what happened to that squadron Leia put together), still getting used to the Force and his lightsaber and all that. And the... odd use of canon. Its not as bad as TCW, which just blatantly ran over old canon (and only reusing whatever names sounded cool) but still, it references and uses... what's the term, anachronistic things, like tech is a bit early (the X-wings and TIE Interceptors and such), especially when there's no reason to. And Luke just isn't that interesting either. Wedge and Leia are getting a good deal of leadership, but Luke isn't. I was hoping for a bit more of seeing Luke and Leia handling sudden galactic infamy, but not that much for Luke, though Leia has gotten a lot of focus.

Oh yeah, I vaguely remember that section in the Essential Guide to the Force. Which sadly was probably one of the weaker Essential Guides, never bothered to buy it- not that much new info and the new info wasn't that great, such as asking an old Jedi hologram his opinion on "redemption" and getting "doesn't exist". Something like that? I just waved it off as the same school of thought as Yoda and Obi-wan- that redemption can happen, just very rare, unfortunately. Both Yoda and Obi-wan thought Anakin Skywalker was beyond reach, yet Luke did it, he saved his father's soul. It was supposed to be one of the ways Luke's New Jedi Order would be better than the old one. JAT's flaws aside, liked that it didn't just kill Kyp (aside from trying to one-up Luke's story, but at least it was still a happy ending). These days its all damnation and hellfire and that if you don't keep on the straight and narrow, you'll fall and have to be struck down or something. During the prequels or Old Republic era that's often the normal Jedi doctrine, but post-RotJ was supposed to be new and better and it was during the Bantam days, well, not that there was much to compare to those days as that was before the prequels, but still.

Not that much of it matters these days, the sequels will probably be as big a game changer as the prequels were for the EU. With how big a mess NJO-onwards has become, still not sure if its an improvement to just start with a clean slate. Although given how bad Lucasfilm's tastes have been sometime, still not holding out that much hope. Lucas is in more of an advisory role now, but hard to tell how much influence he'll still have, and not that big a fan of Abrams, especially after the last nu-Trek movie. Seeing Luke as an old Jedi Master might be nice, but... I don't trust most current movies enough to expect a nice result.

 

When Dark Horse announced the Star Wars comic with Brian Wood, they made it clear, that all you needed was to see ANH

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/07/10/new-star-wars-comic-axes-the-sequels

 

newdawn12:

But if you watched just ANH, you would never expect Leia to be an X-wing pilot, let alone the leader of the group. If you watched ANH, you would expect LUKE to be in the position that Wedge has been given in this new comic. The characterizations aren't very good either. For me, this comic doesn't work.


More tomorrow....

 

Actually Luke was Red Five But for your other remark on Wedge and SW Infinities, I would take the Infinities comics with a grain of salt. We know that Mon Mothma, Ackbar, among others were not on Yavin, they still could fight and with Wedge being alive they stand a greater chance of succeeding in case if the Death Star succeeded.

 

Not sure if anyone already replied to this, but Wedge saves Luke's life early on in the battle.