Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Mar 22, 2008.
And, maybe, that Tarkin is a "darker shade" than Luke Skywalker?
Which way is this wow meant, MS?
Nope, not buying that Iron Lord, sorry. I'm not a fan of scaling. I should've more accurately said I understand how people perceive different scales of grey but I don't agree with scaling because it's a justification tactic. I can use scaling myself and do but only in striving to be understood by others not because I condone it.
There are plenty of reasons beside "he killed more people".
You're justifying. I totally get why most think Luke is light and Tarkin is dark grey or black but doesn't mean I have to agree and I don't.
What is "justifying"?
In the real world - most people consider a cop using violence (the minimum necessary) in order to apprehend a criminal, "justified".
A cop who uses significally more than the minimum, they criticise.
The argument that "All violence is equally immoral" has never held water, for me.
Doesn't make it sound though. That's your choice as is it's mine to consider all grey. Good day, Sir.
Going back to Luke- a common theme I've noticed in the Marvel comics is that he doesn't like to use violence unnecessarily - and when he does, he's often troubled.
Leia & him are shown talking it over, and agreeing that killing is always a sad thing - even when it is necessary.
Yep, the sequence with the Noghri squad in HTTE is a good example - Luke tries various options to evade and immobilise his pursuers but to no avail. When finally cornered by the squad, Luke, with great reluctance, kills them all with a spinning saber.
In the comic Luke comes off as a lovesick pup who acts immature while on duty. On top of that he's now an adrenaline junky from the Hurt Locker.
Thank you for the answer, MS.
I don't think killing is necessary. It's good Luke doesn't like it.
I have no words for this nonsense.
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MS: That really is unfortunate about Luke's handling and presentation again.
I always feel bad about complaining whenever someone gives Luke flaws but they always give him all the wrong ones.
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@Cushing's Admirer, agreed. While we have had questionable characterizations before, you could reason it somewhat. This is a new level of....meh.
@windu4, I enjoy his flaw of putting all the problems on himself but issue 15 makes him come off like a character out of Twilight
CHILD OF WINDS
yep i agree. I would rather see the time filled in later on after he is a Jedi master. But Disney is not going that route yet. It almost seems like Disney is not even giving Luke a jedi order to work with.
Jedi Ben is abrasive, lol but we love him anyway However i do disagree with your point on violence. In a fantasy world you have to throw out some of the moral sociology that you would use in real life. In Star Wars, Skyrim, and many other sci fi or fantasy literature and games it does not pay to have such a blanket view of violence.
Which flaws do you dislike that he is given, and what you think that he should be given?
I was very sad to hear about Aaron Allston's death. I can't say that I loved the way he wrote Luke, but he did somewhat better than other authors in the LotFFotJ series. I loved his X-wing novels though. He did a great job with the Wraiths.
Yep! Sadly, that's a pretty accurate and succinct summary, MS!
Thank goodness Lucas nixed that idea! That would have been the biggest possible FAIL ever! You're right that it certainly wasn't a great way to endear Luke fans to the NJO. It was obvious early in the series that they didn't have any plans for Luke, as they didn't seem to know what to do with him, and plugged him into a passive, indecisive, do-nothing role that was NOT Luke Skywalker. They were planning to kill him off, so they didn't plan a decent role for Luke. After Lucas killed their plans instead of allowing them to kill off Luke, they didn't seem to put much effort into actually including Luke in the story in a meaningful way and one that made sense for the character.
Thankfully, James Luceno brought back the REAL, action-oriented Luke Skywalker and gave him a wonderful role and characterization in The Unifying Force. However, having to wait 19 books and four YEARS (except for a few and far between scenes) for a great Luke characterization, was ridiculous!
Yes, it went in a very negative, pessimistic, DARK, cold direction. Don't get me started on how much I HATE the idea of thousands of Sith Lords and Abeloth on the loose in the galaxy and Luke deciding it would be a great time to retire in Crucible!!!!!!
I hope so too, MS!
No, I really haven't really been keeping with the Rebel news. I was hoping that we would get an animated series about Luke's Jedi Order instead of another Rebellion series. I really kind of doubt that we'll see Luke in it. Isn't this supposed to take place a few years before ANH? Luke wasn't doing much that would make a great adventure tale at the time. He was just a teenager working on his guardians' moisture farm.
Well I already went over this before but Rebels takes place 14 years after RotS. So 5 years before ANH. Luke does NOT have to do anything outside the planet of Tattooine. But if you're telling me he didnt get into some type of trouble with Sand People, Womp Rats, or Krayt dragons before ANH then you're fooling yourself. Tatooine has it own variety of dangers. And a episode could demonstrate this. Luke likes to swoop race and fly his Skyhopper at Beggar's Canyon. I think an episode or part of an episode can demonstrate his time at the farm with Obi-wan watching over him.
A Jedi Order series is nearly impossible to do due to the Ep 7 production
Also I like what I'm hearing about Rebels, they are NOT trying to outdo the OT characters. There is an actual respect to their accomplishments. Yet they will contribute with what they can do, and they're a force to be reckon with. Pun not intended. Another good thing is they are very diverse
Take a look at the Rebels thread, you might like some or all of the characters
did not know about Aaron Allston dying. wow. thats too bad, he was a very good author most of the time. So isn't someone going to compliment me for a proper post with multiple quotes?
Oh, I'm sure Luke got into trouble on Tatooine. I just don't think they would do a REBELS show about it. I think they will concentrate on those involved in the early beginnings of the Rebellion, rather than telling a story about Luke's boyhood.
I know. As Jedi Matteus said, it's even been rumored that when we next meet Luke in Episode VII, he won't even have started a Jedi Order yet. I really hope that isn't true. Even if Luke's Order is a lot smaller than the one in the EU, I want Luke to have trained some Jedi already by the beginning of Episode VII.
But I really would have loved to see stories about Luke and his Jedi. I'm hoping that Luke WILL have a Jedi Order in the new film and that they can then make an animated series about their adventures in the years between RotJ and the new film.
I am glad about this. I think you posted a quote that said something like they know that Luke is the last Jedi at the time of ANH. That sounds encouraging to me! I don't want to see a lot of OJO Jedi coming out of the framework in the sequel trilogy after Yoda told Luke that "After gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be."
I noticed that , JM!!! Congratulations! I don't know why we're required to do that, but you did well.
You're welcome, CA! I'm glad to see you back in the SOS thread!
I didn't like Mara all that much at first. It actually wasn't until I read some fan fiction with her that I grew to appreciate and care about the character. I guess I was turned off at first because she wanted to kill my favorite farmboy!
As for Callista, as I've said, I actually liked the personality, traits, and background of the character. If she would have been born in Luke's generation and if she had been introduced to him as a living, breathing person instead of as a voice/spirit in a computer, I actually would have liked her very much as a future wife for Luke. However, it was just too weird for me to have Luke fall in love with a dead person whose spirit was in a computer. What made it worse for me was that she then took over Cray's body. I found that to be truly a creepy idea. If she and Luke had children, would they have been Callista's or Cray's???
Yes, it's been pretty bad. His characterizations were all over the map, and most of them were pretty bad! I also agree with you that what was done to Jacen wasn't good either.
Well, I would certainly say that Del Rey has gone overboard in the opposite direction with that, CA! Just to mention a couple of things, notice how they turned Luke into a vengeance killer, one of the worst things they could have done to the character, in my opinion. Then they had Luke exiled because of Jacen's fall, and then they had Luke and ALL of the Jedi exiled from Coruscant as if it was their fault that Krayt, all those thousands of Sith, and Abeloth caused all of that death and destruction.
Can you give examples from the Bantam books of things that Luke did that you feel were wrong, yet he didn't have any consequences for them?
I completely agree, MS!
I agree. You don't have to kill off characters to create drama, a sense of jeopardy, or to tell a good story.
Whoops! Missed a few!
Boy! Wood must REALLY hate Luke! He has portrayed Luke so poorly in past issues, and now seems to be continuing this and making Luke's character and roles even worse!
That's a great point, IL! Luke is a very compassionate character who does NOT like to kill and tries to avoid it whenever possible. Even in the NJO, he didn't want to kill the invaders if he didn't have to do so.
In LSatSoM, Luke was so horrified by the consequences of what he had to do, that he wanted to be punished, even though he had no choice in the matter and actually saved many lives through his actions.
@ChildOfWinds: Thank you. Glad to be back. I don't want to fight I want to discuss things.
Okay, yes, the Cray thing was rather far. But, Callista I never had an issue with. Age and generation gaps are an appeal to me not a detractor. Though I personally am drawn to elder men. Yes, I didn't like Mara at all for being the Emperor's Hand (where did that come from??) and wanting to kill Luke, either.
Indeed. Thank you.
Yes, I would agree. Bantam is extreme in the light view and Del Rey is extreme in the dark view. No, I cannot. It's been years since I've read a novel. I just don't like the overly privileged view of the main heroes most people present in that often they can break the universe rules and get away with it. Hardly anything sticks.
In most fantasy pieces there's a class system in some fashion and usually the hero tends to supposedly be a nothing when in fact he's revealed to be *everything*. This gets tiresome. I understand about function, skill, and place. But the implied superiority complexes of the hero or being associated with him get old. I'm glad they've broken that down in principle if not in manner.
On Rebels: well I never said an entire show would focus on farm boy Luke but a 2-3 episode arc is highly plausible. Especially with how TCW handles their story lines. I imagined they could have Obi-wan watching over Luke and dwelling on the past while Luke races around beggar's canyon with his subconscious abilities.
On No Jedi Order: and I repeat I only seen that rumor here. No news sources or the typical web browsing have highlighted that particular rumor. Unless you could cite the source that the poster got it from I think we are making waves out of nothing.
On Star Wood: I already wasn't going to buy it due to A.) Continuity being restructured, B.) Jedi Ben's review, and C.) Luke's questionable characterization. But wow, he doesn't even look like Luke. i suppose that suits the characterization.
On Rebels again: If you liked that then you're going to love this
"Nrama: How fast is her Kessel Run?
Marshall: (laughs) exactly! 12 parsecs. We bow to Han Solo, ladies and gentlemen.
I think she maneuvers the Ghost with grace and ease under pressure, and I know she’s picked off quite a few TIE fighters along the way. But seeing as she’s not a Jedi, I don’t think she’ll have the force-sensitive abilities of say a Luke or Anakin Skywalker. I definitely think she can hold her own. She’s very skilled!
I think what she lacks in force-sensitive abilities, she makes up for with a true passion and a desire to see her mission through to the other side. I think that love for the cause will fuel her in a way that will make her a great pilot.
But Luke flying over without any sensors, just using the Force to blow up the Death Star – I mean, come on. I don’t think Hera could manage that. But she’d come darn close, and she’d definitely have Luke’s back no matter what."
And the actress who plays the twi'lek pilot Hera is an awesome person.