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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Mar 22, 2008.

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  1. JediMatteus

    JediMatteus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Sep 16, 2008
    Yeah I heard this rumor too. Could be cool. Not in exile that long either
     
  2. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 3, 2013
    Well that's great–but if he has powers like that they need to be used in moderation. Because if he can just ROFL-stomp everything it doesn't make for an entertaining movie. I'm all for Luke being uber-powerful, but he should be cautious about using that power, and it should take a toll on him when he does. I speculated that perhaps the "Luke defeats the villain but he's changed" rumors could mean that he uses the Force in such a phenomenal way (perhaps cutting the villain off from the Force?) that he actually weakens his own Force ability, perhaps to the point of being just an "average Joe" like Han. This would allow him to settle into a mentor role in VIII and IX, without killing him or turning him to the dark side, while still taking him out of the fight. I'm not saying I want that to happen, but it would be better than dying or turning to the dark side!
     
  3. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    That would be quite the video game move, wouldn't it?

    Here's Luke in God mode! Oh NO! POWER DOWN!
     
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  4. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 3, 2013
    True, but how else do you prevent the end of every movie being "Luke comes in and blinks at the villain, and he dies"? Unless you have a villain just as powerful as Luke. But the new heroes need to be able to take on these guys too; they don't need to be relying on Luke all the time. They should take what he teaches them and be able to stand on their own feet.
     
  5. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    You play the Zahn card?

    Ever read Feist's Riftwar series? There, despite Pug's skills improving over time, the enemies go up, up and up to match so he's never in a position of being God.

    Easiest solution is to not have the heroes in that position to start with.
     
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  6. Matt Skywalker

    Matt Skywalker Jedi Knight star 3

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    Apr 26, 2014
    Avengers did well with making both Thor n Hawkeye useful, maybe they can do that for SW
     
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  7. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 3, 2013
    Well, Thor is, in Black Widow's words, "basically a god," so I think it's hardly difficult to make him useful. :p
     
  8. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2011

    Should be noted that Movie-Thor (And Movie-Superman for that matter) doesn't hold a candle to comic book Thor.

    The issue of having a character so powerful however, and everyone know's he so powerful, yet still finding interesting ways to right him is a good test for a writer's skills. If nothing else i'm on board to see how it's handled, and i'm glad we're now cutting the time of Luke's absence from thirty years to ten, and that he started to rebuild the Jedi Order first. A little more trimming wouldn't be bad, but it's an improvement.
     
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  9. ThreadSketch

    ThreadSketch Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 22, 2013
    Hey, where's Child of Winds to be cheered up by this news? ;)

    It's a nice potential rumor to hear, although I too hope they're careful with it, if it is indeed the real direction they're headed in. Still, it'd be awfully fun to have that one major PWN moment that would have everyone flipping out with glee in the theater.
     
  10. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    It's late 2015, Episode 7 is finally out, you have survived the rumour-storm of utter bullcrap for the last 2 years and have no spoiler info in your head. You are in the flicks watching the film and for 90 minutes there has been no Luke Skywalker. Chewie, Han, Leia, the Droids, an Ewok, a Sith - they've all turned up, no Luke. You're getting really cheesed off by this.

    The new gang are infiltrating the Big Bad's Bond-style Secret Lair, they get ambushed by said villain, who monologues that they are a pitiful band and now they die. Then an alarm goes off, a stormtrooper squad is sent in its direction. A few seconds later one trooper comes flying back into the room, another enters through a wall! From the opposite direction they flew, all is black. A green lightsaber ignites....

    You watch an unparalleled sequence of arse-kicking and are no longer cheesed off.
     
  11. ThreadSketch

    ThreadSketch Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 22, 2013
    Quality over quantity. ;)
     
  12. Matt Skywalker

    Matt Skywalker Jedi Knight star 3

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    Apr 26, 2014

    Yes, but the case is how do u make Hawkeye or Black Widow useful when you have Thor n Hulk around. ;)
     
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  13. JediMatteus

    JediMatteus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Child would ignore what sounded good, and be worried about the so called darkness that Luke is drawn too. That is the one part that had me concerned as well.
     
  14. ChildOfWinds

    ChildOfWinds Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2001
    Sheesh! I had a hard time finding this poor thread! :(

    @JediMara77:
    I completely agree! Luke is simply NOT hermit material. It would make no sense to portray him as one. If that's the best they can do with the character and actor, that's pretty sad. Luke will only be in his early 50's in the film too. He should definitely not be portrayed as a doddering, crazy old hermit. He and his gifts are needed in the galaxy. He shouldn't be wasting away doing nothing on some isolated planet.








    Matt Skywalker:
    I totally agree, MS!







    Cushing's Admirer:
    That may be so, CA, but in a franchise mostly known for its action, adventure, and swashbuckling, I doubt it would go over well with readers or with an audience. Besides, there's only so much he could learn confined in a prison cell with likely no opportunity to practice. I think there are only so many stories about becoming more aware and empathetic that could be told without it becoming repetitive. One or two stories about Prisoner Luke would work, but thirty years worth of such stories wouldn't go over well.






    Matt Skywalker:
    Yes, I agree with you, MS! And I agree that Luke should be "his own balanced, unique self".








    @ThreadSketch :
    In my opinion, it was pretty much mostly put into the book to set up and back up Mara when she gave Luke that "lecture" in VotF. As I keep saying, there are extremely few books in which Luke is shown as doing something really powerful with the Force. Most of the time, I felt that Luke didn't use the Force enough. He never abused it or overdid anything as Mara claims, and he and everything he did for the ten years between DE and SotP was certainly NOT tainted by the dark side.

    As you said, the Corellian trilogy was the last set of books before SotP, and I don't remember Luke doing anything all that amazing with the Force in that trilogy. In fact, isn't that the trilogy in which Luke lost a lightsaber skirmish to Leia or am I blending books together in my brain? And didn't Mon Mothma sort of gave him a lecture that he should be doing more with his life and the Jedi Order?

    That whole bit about Han being "creeped out" by Luke was ridiculous, in my opinion.






    BigAl6ft6:
    I actually wouldn't care for either scenario. Having Luke missing for over 30 years is a terrible idea, no matter why he's missing.






    ThreadSketch:
    Well, it really annoyed me, especially since it made poor Luke look absolutely TERRIBLE. I hated his insinuation through his Mara mouthpiece that Luke was tainted with darkness for ten years and that everything he touched during those ten years was also tainted with darkness. It was just an AWFUL thing to do to Luke, who spent all those years helping others and sacrificing himself. I thought Zahn just made things worse. He should have just portrayed Luke CORRECTLY and not tried to retcon the characterizations of other authors, because all he did was dump on Luke and make him look stupid and dark.


    Tim Battershell:
    The problem with the whole thing though, TB, is that if you really go through all of the old Bantam books, the Diamala's claim doesn't work because Luke DIDN'T use the Force all that much, and there are only a few examples in a few books of Luke doing anything all that powerful with the Force. Most of it was in DE and in the Black Fleet Crisis . I often felt that Luke didn't use the Force ENOUGH, and , while reading some of the Bantam books, I wanted to scream, "USE THE FORCE, LUKE!!!!"


    More another time...
     
  15. ChildOfWinds

    ChildOfWinds Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2001
    Sheesh! I had a hard time finding this poor thread! :(

    @JediMara77:
    I completely agree! Luke is simply NOT hermit material. It would make no sense to portray him as one. If that's the best they can do with the character and actor, that's pretty sad. Luke will only be in his early 50's in the film too. He should definitely not be portrayed as a doddering, crazy old hermit. He and his gifts are needed in the galaxy. He shouldn't be wasting away doing nothing on some isolated planet.








    Matt Skywalker:
    I totally agree, MS!







    Cushing's Admirer:
    That may be so, CA, but in a franchise mostly known for its action, adventure, and swashbuckling, I doubt it would go over well with readers or with an audience. Besides, there's only so much he could learn confined in a prison cell with likely no opportunity to practice. I think there are only so many stories about becoming more aware and empathetic that could be told without it becoming repetitive. One or two stories about Prisoner Luke would work, but thirty years worth of such stories wouldn't go over well.






    Matt Skywalker:
    Yes, I agree with you, MS! And I agree that Luke should be "his own balanced, unique self".








    @ThreadSketch :
    In my opinion, it was pretty much mostly put into the book to set up and back up Mara when she gave Luke that "lecture" in VotF. As I keep saying, there are extremely few books in which Luke is shown as doing something really powerful with the Force. Most of the time, I felt that Luke didn't use the Force enough. He never abused it or overdid anything as Mara claims, and he and everything he did for the ten years between DE and SotP was certainly NOT tainted by the dark side.

    As you said, the Corellian trilogy was the last set of books before SotP, and I don't remember Luke doing anything all that amazing with the Force in that trilogy. In fact, isn't that the trilogy in which Luke lost a lightsaber skirmish to Leia or am I blending books together in my brain? And didn't Mon Mothma sort of gave him a lecture that he should be doing more with his life and the Jedi Order?

    That whole bit about Han being "creeped out" by Luke was ridiculous, in my opinion.






    BigAl6ft6:
    I actually wouldn't care for either scenario. Having Luke missing for over 30 years is a terrible idea, no matter why he's missing.






    ThreadSketch:
    Well, it really annoyed me, especially since it made poor Luke look absolutely TERRIBLE. I hated his insinuation through his Mara mouthpiece that Luke was tainted with darkness for ten years and that everything he touched during those ten years was also tainted with darkness. It was just an AWFUL thing to do to Luke, who spent all those years helping others and sacrificing himself. I thought Zahn just made things worse. He should have just portrayed Luke CORRECTLY and not tried to retcon the characterizations of other authors, because all he did was dump on Luke and make him look stupid and dark.


    Tim Battershell:
    The problem with the whole thing though, TB, is that if you really go through all of the old Bantam books, the Diamala's claim doesn't work because Luke DIDN'T use the Force all that much, and there are only a few examples in a few books of Luke doing anything all that powerful with the Force. Most of it was in DE and in the Black Fleet Crisis . I often felt that Luke didn't use the Force ENOUGH, and , while reading some of the Bantam books, I wanted to scream, "USE THE FORCE, LUKE!!!!"


    More another time...
     
  16. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    To each theitr own, CoW. I think far too many assume it's all about action.
     
  17. ThreadSketch

    ThreadSketch Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2013
    Just to explain why I think the way I do about Legends EU Luke, ChildOfWinds - and I know we have differences of opinion, so this is not to persuade you or argue or anything of that sort, but just for clarification - it's because once I saw the character who had once done this:

    [​IMG]

    ...turn around and do THIS a few years later:

    [​IMG]

    ...I lost major respect for him.

    I'm not touching the can of worms about whether he really "fell" or not; that's beside the point for me here - and I also understand that characters, like real people, should not be perfect and thus need to have flaws and make mistakes. HSAT, I still think it was an idiotic decision for him, and reduced the triumphant impact of his earlier rejection of Palpatine in ROTJ. At the end of the day, he still had to get his bacon saved by Leia. Which was awesome for Leia, but for Luke...not cool, bro. Not cool.

    One can say that Yoda was either exaggerating or just pessimistic when he said, "Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny," but...he did say it. In an actual SW movie, not EU. Luke did "start" down the dark path just by dabbling in it and studying it, even if he didn't stay on it. Either way, it was just a bad choice on his part, a bad, arrogant choice. If he'd simply teamed up with Leia from the get-go, things might have turned out better sooner, and the Dark Side might not have been considered an option at all. (I mean, good gravy, Leia's his twin with an equal amount of Force potential, even if she has less training. Frankly, if I were her, I'd be more than a little insulted that my bro thought he could do it all himself just because he's Mr. Hero Awesomepants McGee. o_O)

    Okay, that's my thing. Of course, if I don't like something, I can simply head!canon it out of existence. :p
     
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  18. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    I actually like that Luke fell. Shows he isn't Mr Perfect. Why's it bad to need people anyway?
     
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  19. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Luke was confronting the guy his father threw down that shaft. He came back. Luke was also dealing with stress (Palpatine using the Force on him or something) before that and got teleported force knows where. What would you do?
     
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  20. ThreadSketch

    ThreadSketch Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 22, 2013
    Like I said, character flaws are what make them more realistic and generates drama. The main reason why it rubs me the wrong way is that it basically makes him retroactively look like a fool when he declares, "Never. I'll never turn to the Dark Side. You've failed, Your Highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me."

    Six years later..."Welp, never mind that." [face_whistling] It's flaky, lol. But oh well.
     
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  21. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

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    Jun 8, 2006
    Just proves he's human. :)
     
  22. ThreadSketch

    ThreadSketch Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 22, 2013
    The whole problem started right there with him going off alone into the Force storm. I understand that he wouldn't want anyone else to be threatened or hurt by it or whatever else lay on the other side of it, but...yeah, while that's heroic and typical for him, that's the short-sighted arrogance that also wound up dumping him right into Palps' lap (when the Force storm first appeared, he had no idea there was a reborn Emperor waiting for him) with no apparent way out other than the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" option.

    DigitalMessiah and Jedi Ben have been explaining DE to me, so I comprehend the story and the purpose it served, but yeah, I'm not a fan and would kinda prefer to wish it away into the cornfield. Since it was a big part of the old EU, when I do mentally choose to roll with it, that Luke isn't very high in my regard anymore.

    When one has already previously and intimately seen the fruits of the Dark Side and then still decides to pursue it in any fashion to accomplish something, I just see that as a sheer lack of intelligence, period. Road to hell paved with good intentions and all.
     
  23. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    I find your lack of faith in Luke to be disturbing.

    Or....Is it wrong to lie to the bad guy? When the aim is to get inside and bring down all the bad guy's works?

    Nor does Luke fall voluntarily to the dark side, if he had Sidious would not have had to render him a zombie on Eclipse and even then Luke was not instantly obedient, he hesitated and resisted the command long enough for Leia to talk and that was it.
     
  24. ThreadSketch

    ThreadSketch Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 22, 2013
    Oh, lying to bad guys is fine - but it didn't amount to much since Sidious knew what Luke was doing the whole time. It's not like it was a surprise for him, and he still played Luke like a fiddle.
     
  25. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    That's kind of the point though - each knows the other is insincere, Sid considers the loss of a Devastator to be fine if it bags him Luke.
     
  26. ThreadSketch

    ThreadSketch Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 22, 2013
    That's exactly what I figured too - that losing any number of Devastators or other parts of his fleet was a paltry cost to finally getting the Skywalker whelp as his lapdog.

    I see Sidious like Satan, a dude who's renowned for outwitting everybody. You try to play him at his own game and it will not end well for you. I don't know if I'm remembering the ending correctly, but I think he just finally gets so freaking angry that he loses control and Luke and Leia are able to take advantage of that.
     
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