Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Yes, I agree here.

See, the story wouldn't work well if Yoda was the most powerful in the OT.

You make the force sound like a tool used for grandstanding, not like a gift. The force lends itself to the Jedi when it is needed, as I understand it. Luke will do great feats only when it is necessary and the force grants him that power. But this time, he might not be THE person the force choses to do the great hero thing and defeat the villains.

It is the Sith who actively grab for power and enslave the force to do their bidding.

I don't think I understand you. If he is defeated by the villain, then he won't come across as the most powerful, no matter the hymns sung about him.

Or do you think the villain wins by cheating? That would make him look very weak and unthreatening, kinda like Ventress or Grievous in TCW.

I mean how exactly are you picturing this? Luke is the most powerful but then he isn't?

It a sad or not so sad truth: The villains are at their most threatening when they manage to beat the heroes and badly. That's why so often an important sidekick characters bites the dust before the grand finale happens in which the hero kicks the baddies ass.[/quote]

 

Darth_Pevra

I felt and as shown in RotS that both Yoda and Sidious were match in power. Although it took Yoda some 900 years to get that powerful and Sidious clearly isn't that old to acquire his.

So then you're open to the idea of the villain matching Luke in power in TFA ?

Sidious was beaten by surprise and tossed out by his second in command, just because you're the most poweful doesn't mean you let your guard down. Look at what happen to Boba Fett.

Most powerful doesn't equal all powerful/invincible

 

Matching? Yes, as long as it doesn't take away from the new heroes.

No, definitely not. Anyone can be defeated.

 

Glad we understand each other

 

Good luck finding this variant!

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/01/12/alex-ross-exclusive-star-wars-1-cover-store/

 

Variant cover that takes "Save our Skywalker" quite literally

 

A not-small part of me wishes that's how it went down in ANH, now.

 

Speaking of that comic, anyone pick up issue #1? I like the way Luke was handled

Spoiler

he clearly has the Force and can make work of his lightsaber but he's still bobbling a few details, I loved his whole "these aren't the slaves your looking for" Jedi mindtrick fail. Also in the final few pages, he gets to talk to Ben because Vader is stomping towards him and Ben tells Luke to "Run". Great, dynamic ending to the issue and does make sense for where Luke was at pre-Yoda training. The Force is with Young Skywalker, but he's not a Jedi yet. So, run.

 

Damn, I HATE it when people claim ROTJ-Luke was half-trained. Did they miss his casual use of force power at Jabba's or how he beat Vader? Or that Yoda told him he knows all he needs to be a Jedi and his last task is to confront Vader?

Not only does this devalue Luke, it devalues Vader too and even the Emperor.

 

It may have been an odd decision on the part of various EU authors - but I guess they figured that Luke's period of "self-training" between TESB and ROTJ was not proper Jedi training. This was long before the PT established that Jedi apprentices train for many years.

The statement by Han in The Crystal Star about Luke not "finishing his formal training" is pretty accurate, even if it doesn't say everything.

"I demanded some proof that he was a true representative of the New Republic. He removed his disguise."
"So he did look different to you, at first?"
"Very different. But he released me from his influence." She shivered slightly. "He is very skilled, Solo. I did not even know he was affecting me, until he let me go."
"He's talented," Han said. "But he never had the chance to finish his formal training."
"Ah," she said. "That's said to be very dangerous."
"Yes. And he's had occasion to realize it."
"I had heard ... some rumors on that subject," Xaverri said.
"Did you?" Han said. "We thought we'd managed to keep it from public knowledge."
"Perhaps you did," Xaverri replied. "But I am not precisely the public ... and I put considerable energy into cultivating many lines of communication."

 

Casual, yes, but not exactly an indication of 'complete' training. And he beat Vader by tapping into his hate and anger. Not signs of complete training, either. It doesn't devalue him at all. As for Palps, he's the bad guy and a cackling villain. Devaluing him's awesome. Shove him down stairs!

 

It was resisting the temptation to kill Vader once Luke had beaten him, that's portrayed as the moment where "Luke levels up from Padawan to Jedi Knight".

When Luke says "I am a Jedi Knight, like my father before me" - he's confronted his own flaws - and overcame them.

That doesn't prevent him from feeling, rightly, that he still has a lot to learn.

 

Dooku was a Jedi Master and he fell to the darkside as well. Anakin was a knight and fell.

Falling to the dark side seems to have little to do with whether your Jedi training is officially over or not. Your claim that Luke's struggle shows his training is incomplete is therefore an empty one. Even Masters struggle with it (Obi-Wan also did in his battle against young Vader in ROTS).

And in the end, Luke did reject the dark side which is more than can be said about his dad. That more than any title shows that he is a true Jedi.

The idea that Luke is half-trained is a fantasy that has no support in the movies.

 

Considering he rushed off from Dagobah, got his butt handed to him by Vader and it wasn't until the end of ROTJ that he pulled himself back, yeah. I'll call him half-trained in the OT.

 

Maybe you missed that "being a learner" was a plot-point in Empire?

However in ROTJ he has clearly become a much wiser person, a true Jedi in the end when he passes his final test.

Again, you have given no actual evidence that he is "half-trained" by ROTJ, probably because the movies themselves don't support it.

 

Yeah, he was a learner, not fully trained, then ran off. Pulling some moves against Jabba's thugs is in noway indicative of being fully trained either. Anakin could pull that in the PT and no way in hell was he fully-trained. As for ROTJ and the end, yeah, big step and test but he's still got a metric ton to learn considering how much he's missed out on by leaving Dagobah.

 

So a Jedi can only become a Jedi when he is taught by a master?

I don't believe that and neither should you, the Rebels show demonstrates that it is untrue with Kanan, who was merely a Padawan when Order 66 took place.

Even in the legends EU there was Yaddle who self-trained herself so much that she was recognized as a Jedi by the council, even a master. I still think it is a beautiful little tale.

I know that legends doesn't count, but Rebels sure does.

Luke found strength and inner wisdom and that's why he could become a Jedi in ROTJ. If you are at peace, like Luke was, then the force flows through you. And it doesn't matter where you are, whether in the swamp or in a gangster hive, this can be learned everywhere.

I don't know what he "missed out" by leaving Dagobah, but you seem to do. Maybe you don't mind telling me, huh? Since you know so clearly.

 

'Legends' doesn't count? Legends is how I got into SW in the first place. It counts more than the OT does to me and always will. As for what he missed, we don't know since he left Dagobah.

 

I guess I understand that the old EU has more value to you than it does to me.

But when we're discussing matters of canon, we need a common frame of reference and I get the impression that is missing here.

For the record, I'm only talking about the new canon.

Exactly, we don't know. And maybe Yoda was wrong when he bemoaned Luke rushing to the rescue of his friends. Luke's friends were vital in the destruction of the Empire.

Yoda doesn't seem to understand the value normal people can have.

 

You forget the part where Kanan is clearly overwhelmed when facing the Inquistor due to his lack of "training" and further lack of continuing to use the Force. Luke becomes a a Jedi Knight at the end of RotJ but clearly he still has a lot of fine tuning to go through. When you become a knight the training doesn't end there.

 

Not exactly.
He is not quite there yet, but wait until one or two seasons have passed! It is pretty obvious that he will become a true Jedi during the course of the show, even without having a master.

Does the learning ever end, even for a master?

Master Yoda learned for more than 800 years but even he had to learn new things at the end of TCW.

 

No, he refers to himself as a Jedi Knight. Anyways, titles are meaningless post Order 66.

 

Look, when all the major characters comment on Luke's skill except for the main baddy (who is written as very arrogant and overconfident), then he truly is a Jedi, no question about it. You only need to look at the proud faces of the force ghosts to see the truth.

 

Actually about that......

"One thing remains. Vader. You must confront Vader. Then, only then, a Jedi will you be. And confront him you will."-Yoda

 

but that was in ESB. ROTJ Luke != ESB Luke.