Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v4)

Sadly, Zeta1127, I tend to agree with you. They seem to have chosen the worst possible direction in making this new trilogy. They pushed everything back to the way it was before ANH began, which completely tosses out any achievements made by Luke, Leia, and Han. The filmmakers have turned the OT characters into complete failures, and have destroyed Luke's life's work, making the last thirty years of his life a total waste. Why they would want to repeat the skywalker goes bad and terrorizes and destroys the galaxy story, is truly beyond my understanding. They should have continued the story from the end of RotJ instead of wiping out all of the accomplishments of the OT 3 and making the OT irrelevant by starting over with new and (in my opinion) not quite as engaging characters as the originals.

JediMatteus, at this point, I am getting close to "panicking". I didn't like what the filmmakers did with Luke in TFA, and from the rumors and comments, it doesn't sound like I am going to like what they do with Luke in TLJ.

Spoiler

Having Luke say that the jedi must end, certainly seems like it's time to panic, to me.

 

So, COW, how would you make a trilogy which is every bit as epic and huge as the original?

 

Well, I'm no writer, C, so I'm not really the person to ask that. I do know though, that I wouldn't have gone backwards and retold a story that was already told by someone else, especially since that story was well-told the first time, which would make mine a cheaper, inferior copy. I also would have gone FORWARD with the story, showing respect to the films and characters that came before. I wouldn't have made those iconic films irrelevant, and I wouldn't have made those iconic characters complete failures or given them totally miserable lives. I certainly wouldn't have destroyed Luke's Jedi order or had another skywalker family member turn into a Vader wannabe.

I think I would have written a story that made use of some of the members of Luke's Jedi order. We didn't need to have another sort of sith versus Jedi conflict again, or a new emperor type of character. Instead, how about some tales of the jedi, including a young skywalker paired with a young solo Jedi perhaps? We could see them helping with natural or other disasters; resolving conflicts on a given world or between worlds or sectors; defeating space pirates or invaders; helping people and the galaxy in numerous ways. It doesn't all need to be dark versus light Jedi. Give us something new and different, and let the Jedi and the Skywalkers be the solution to problems instead of falling and being the cause of the problems.

 

The New Republic couldn't have stopped the First Order and Starkiller Base.

But the Jedi Council could. Remember that before Darth Sidious drew the Shroud of the Dark Side over the Force, the Jedi Order's wisest and most powerful Masters could use the Force in concert to see far and wide and view great threats and dangers before they happened.

The Shroud of the Dark Side dissipated with the death of Darth Sidious and the Force was balanced again. If Luke had rebuilt the Jedi Order properly he would have had an august body of Jedi Masters that could see into the future. Dozens of intrepid Jedi Knights out investigating sinister dealings.

The Return of the Jedi could have stopped the First Order.

 

Blowing it away? A planet-sized super-gun? With what?

And yeah, Han's right - you're basically requiring that, in order to ensure peace and security, the Republic develops a Death Star.

That's by the by, for, as you don't read the new books, you don't know that the Unknown Regions are, to the Republic, unknown! They're also impassable, which means no scouting missions, because no one makes it back alive. Guess where they built the Starkiller?

All the First Order is good for is sneak attacks, or to put it another way, using a famous phrase from another franchise: They have no honour!

I happen to really like V's idea that the Jedi could have stopped the Starkillre - they'd have greater latitude to act, be able to use the Force to navigate the Unknown Regions and so on, but some super-bastard went and killed them again, which is sodding irritating.

Changing tack Hamill's been quoted as seeing TFA as a missed opportunity to get Luke, Han and Leia on screen together one last time - on that, there's no argument to be made, the man has a point.

It's misdirection COW, I'm absolutely certain of that.

If we get to December and they actually do kill off Luke, that plot bomb will explode within hours, or even minutes, of the first showing. There is no way it will be contained in today's world, following that there will be much, much rage and burning of SW material. Me? I'd go for a more surgical strike in all likelihood.

But because of that being the likely result, it actually argues against doing it and reduces the likelihood.

Now a teaser is out, a story one will follow, but even that is reason not to respond much because that's what trailers are made to do. If you're not going to enjoy the game they invite you to, it's best not to play.

 

All I see are excuses on top of excuse in a vain attempt at trying to justify the decision to go with the worst choice for the ST which does terrible, terrible damage to the universe.

 

That's a really crappy reply Zeta but fine, I won't waste more time engaging with you.

 

I just don't see the appeal of what they have done. The Heroes of Yavin are a mess, all of my other favorite characters are gone, and none of the factions in the ST are interesting.

 

I think it would have been much more interesting and original if the ST followed the New Republic in a position of power. It would be like the Civil War, but the roles would be reversed. The First Order would be a rebellion, and the former Rebels would now be in a state of paranoia, fighting off a shadow enemy. I think this would've made for a much more interesting story. Honestly it's the logical route the ST would have followed, but the creators wanted something that felt just like the OT. sigh

 

That is all I wanted, but no, that was apparently too much to ask for.

 

Other Force groups, Dark Sider insurgents, other Alien species, civilizations etc.
An Imperial presence would be expected imo.

 

On my end, I much prefer the First Order to the Galactic Empire and hope we'll get to explore them as a force very different from them despite similar iconography. I also hope we'll see them push the galaxy to the brink of utter defeat and not see them annihilated at the end. Unfortunately, I admit my greatest hope from the New Trilogy would have been something similar to Mobile Suit Gundam.

Which aside from being a "toy" show back in the 70s and 80s (to today) had a much more nuanced vision of war than was typical in that story. We had honorable enemies and moments where the heroes routinely found themselves pitted against otherwise decent people trying to kill them or vice versa. The leadership of Zeon and its successors were evil but the people under them were as much victims as anyone.

I want to see the "heroes on both sides" which the Separtists promised but we never got to see. For me, the First Order should be the chance for Star Wars to mature a little and see enemies as people with Finn representing that possibility but somewhat dashing it in how he immediately tears through his own people. I still have high hopes for the Knights of Ren being a group dedicated to Vader's ideals of order and peace throughout the galaxy versus the Sith's selfishness but so far I haven't seen much in the way of moral nuance.

But the fact Luke says the Light and Dark are not everything to the Force does give me some hope.

We will never be free from the specter of war in Star Wars but I'm hoping after the First Order is defeated, it will end in a treaty with them and a Cold War afterward. Something more like the Sith Empire vs. Republic in TOR.

 

The problem I have with you Zeta is your previous replies demonstrates no interest in actually conversing, you're just doing drive-by posting. If that's all it's to be, then fine.

However, thinking you might have wanted to discuss it a bit more, I decided to actually give you an alternate picture, agreement was not needed, changing your mind is not required, but ignoring it is bloody irritating and a likely reason why people don't want to talk to you, it's all take and no give.

 

I'm of the belief that the "time for the Jedi to end" line is simply a misdirection to give people pause. I wouldn't be surprised for the line to be said early, as a way of Luke telling Rey he won't train her. Which we know he ends up doing anyway.

 

I disagree about the assessment that there were no easy alternatives to the ST plot. There absolutely were if you look back at the KotoR-comics. It featured a big invasion by the Mandalorians, a crazy warrior-culture obsessed with fighting that wanted to take over a peaceful Republic. The Mandalorians were as evil and brutal as the Empire while feeling like a different faction. They don't care about whether you are wearing scales or fur, just if you're following their crazy code. And of course they're aided and manipulated by darksiders as well.


The entire conflict could be about the Republic trying to save everything they built over the years while not stooping to the level of their blood-thirsty opponents. Tell me that's not more interesting than Galactic Civil War 2.0.


While the old EU contained a lot of crap it still contains a lot of material that could be used and built on.

 

Eh, I love the First Order but I'm really upset we're not getting any insight into it or how it functions. They're really underdeveloped bad guys and I was hoping we'd moved past that.

 

There should have been lots of different kinds of plots. If the only one they could come up with was another version of empire versus rebellion, maybe they shouldn't have made a sequel trilogy at all. All they did was remake the earlier films with different characters and different names for the opposing factions.

 

And it's certainly been mined. So yes, no shortage of material there.

 

All I know is that hearing Luke Skywalker (not Mark Hamill, it's his Luke voice) in The Last Jedi trailer has me so, so happy. I don't know if I'm going to be able to handle Jedi Master Luke, but I sure as hell will try.

 

The teaser trailer crashed the boards for hours, the story trailer will crash the boards for days.

Thus spake Luke Skywalker.....

EDIT: The Luke book just became a bigger deal if this BD listing is accurate:

(My emphasis)

JG Jones is an excellent artist, this could be quite something.

 

Oh and current page count is 432, but those can fluctuate

 

Hmmm, while I admit that I have my concerns, I actually feel Lucasfilm took the Star Wars franchise in the right direction.

The problem was that, with TFA, they had to fulfill two goals: First, to prove to everyone that this was the Star Wars you grew up with, to indulge in nostalgia. Second, to persuade everyone that modern Star Wars films could actually be *good*. They chose to achieve both by doing a pretty much note-by-note recreation of ANH; which necessarily required that the Galaxy be in a bit of a state, and set up a 'passing of the torch'.

With that accomplished, though, I'm fascinated by the plot threads Lucasfilm is weaving through the new canon. They're adding so many hints; I mean, on the one hand you've got new Force-cults, on the other the expanded lore about Kyber Crystals. They're headed in a direction, and there are thematic and conceptual links between even the spin-offs like Rogue One and the ongoing story. That fascinates me.

Do I have concerns for Luke? A little. But I'm convinced that Luke's story is an essential part of where Lucasfilm is going. I mean, by now it's pretty clear Luke headed to Jakku to meet with Lor San Tekka (sp?) to get directions to the Jedi Temple of Ahch-To; I'm betting he left Rey on Jakku then. But what did Luke find at Ahch-To? Why has he never returned, but instead become some sort of Arthurian legend?

My money's on Luke's discovering something far older than the Jedi Order, probably the teachings of the Whills. Given the Aftermath trilogy hinted that Snoke is some "source" or emanence of the Dark Side itself, it makes sense that Luke needs to go deeper than ever before. It's in that context I believe the Jedi will end; that Luke will establish something *new*.

 

I'm probably too mired in the old EU, but I... dislike the idea that that Jedi aren't enough. In ANH, Obi-wan said the Jedi protected the Republic for a thousand generations, and apparently that's not good enough, now they've got to come up with a bigger, badder threat than the Sith. As well as (unnecessarily) one-upping Palpatine. Episode I-VI mostly work as one story, so adding something else is problematic, I know, but TFA certainly didn't inspire confidence.

For me, it comes down to how it doesn't seem like Luke was the new beginning but instead he's been demoted to another stepping stone for the new true new beginning, Rey. Doesn't help that so much is still untold. I know, mystery, but Episode VIII will be out this year, so they could reveal something! Though that ties into how stupid the search for Luke Skywalker was. He went off looking for something, or was really depressed after how badly his nephew turned out, or some other excuse. If it had been something relatively straightforward (as another poster already mentioned) like "Luke sensed a threat, went off to find the First Jedi Temple to stop it, and now others have to follow his trail to catch up with him". Instead TFA had the heroes get half a map, the Empire had half too for some reason, and Artoo sat around in a depression coma until he felt like coughing up his half when he felt like it.

My ideal sequel trilogy probably would have been something like... say, a young Skywalker and Solo Jedi apprentices go off investigating unsettling new rumors of the long-vanished Empire making a return, finding the First Order fleet massing for a strike on the New Republic capital (preferably not just Coruscant-lite but something better like Naboo or Mon Calamari) with the Skywalker staying behind to buy time for the young Solo to escape and warn the Republic, young Skywalker is captured and broken, then lead into Episode VIII. A combination of say TPM (intro to new era), AotC ending (war breaking out), SWTOR (old threat return), YJK (cousins on mission), something like that.

Something like the Vong would have been a bit too out there and unrelated. I don't completely oppose the Empire getting its revenge as the First Order, but background is annoying vague on just how known or unknown they are. Starkiller Base catching them off-guard is one thing (transgalactic superlaser aside), but there have been mentions of a Galactic Concordance being ignored, the Republic is too stagnant and incompetent to do anything, in some comics the Resistance has to be careful not to shoot first, that new big Star Destroyer is definitely breaking treaty limits but no one has conclusive proof it exists, just lots of conflicting details. And the few pre-TFA stories like the Poe story are just in a holding pattern until VIII (maybe even IX, which is why the series is so boring).

TFA felt like ANH combined with the decay and stagnation of the prequel era Republic. I just hope TLJ movie doesn't have depressed Luke dragged out of his malaise by Rey or something like that. So much for that new hope, time for the newer, better hope. She's even got the Skywalker lightsaber already. A lot of my discontent is due to how TFA went so heavy on the angst already. I know, ANH wasn't all happy either, but even before TFA starts so much bad stuff has already happened (Luke disappeared, Kylo on a permanent emo temper tantrum, Han lost the Falcon, Leia is at best a pariah, etc.). The lack of details has been pretty aggravating too.

Its hard to tell what TLJ will be like, with just one trailer to go on. And whenever they release another (May 4th? Another Marvel movie post-GotG, since that's already out. Whenever) the boards will probably crash again.

A lot of this depends on finding just what Luke's been up to. I hope he's actually accomplished something all the time he's been away.

 

This is what will determine if the ST lives or dies.

 

I completely agree with you, JB! That will certainly be true for me, even if other fans don't care. Showing respect to the iconic character of Luke skywalker, and giving him an accomplishment and a legacy is vitally important to me. If this doesn't happen, I will be finished with Star Wars. I don't care if everyone else on the planet is okay with them ruining Luke's character (because they now have lots of shiny new characters, you know), I will never be okay with it. Luke's characterization and role will determine whether or not I give up on Star Wars after several decades of being a fan.