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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v4)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by JediMatteus, Sep 12, 2015.

  1. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    *waves hand* You didn't notice my mistake.
     
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  2. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    I think that is, in fact, exactly what they said.
     
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  3. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Oh, panic? No, no, no - that would only apply if I actually had a stake in the ST story, which I don't have much of.

    No, there isn't a plan, there never was a plan, just a mass of PR bullcrap claiming there was and this'd be different to what came before - which is why I gave it a chance and now they've blown it.

    So, the likely response? Let's see:

    Shattered Empire - keep. The other Marvel OHCs to date - keep. The pre-ROTJ books done so far - keep. Rebels S1-2 - keep. Rogue One - absolute must.

    Other ROTJ material? Gets flogged, preferably for lots of cash when the hardbacks go out of print!

    Where does my SW officially end? ROTJ.
     
  4. ChildOfWinds

    ChildOfWinds Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2001
    Well, if I end up hating TLJ, my SW will officially end with VotF, as for me some of the old EU will be part of my canon. Maybe it will even end with survivor's quest, because I really liked that story and the prequel book that went with it. But, yes, as far as the films go, RotJ will be the ending film for me. I was sort of afraid this would happen when I first heard that they were going to make new films. I was afraid of what they would do with Luke, Han, and Leia and their lives and legacies.But so far, the reality has been FAR worse than what I imagined and feared. :(
     
  5. MartyAvidianus

    MartyAvidianus Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    May 14, 2017
    luke destroyed the emperor with the help of his father, or his father destroyed the emperor with his help, whatever.

    Now after all that he started a jedi academy, only to have it destroyed by his own blood, albeit not directly blood, but his kin nevertheless.

    so now he has to train another jedi, with no guarantee.

    someone get c'baoth off of wayland. only with his guidance can the galaxy reach real maturity.

    edit: SW hasn't ended for me yet, but I consider the NEU by disney an alternate universe.
    the sith imperial war from legacy comics as well.
    my sw is in limbo right after crucible.

    ---

    seriously though, the only way to save luke skywalker is a showdown with snoke while leia kills snoke, dying in the process, and rei kills/redeem a uber powerful kylo ren.
     
  6. son_of_skywalker03

    son_of_skywalker03 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Forgive me if I roll my eyes heavily at the "bullcrap" and "blown it" bits.
     
  7. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2007
    I remember the nu-Battlestar Galactica show kept having teasers about "they have a plan", and it ended up being more confusing than Lost. Though I always hated that series anyway since I like the original '80s version (warts and all) better than something that just piles on the darkness and angst and mental problems and deus ex machina.

    Considering all the out of universe stuff (near cancellation at beginning of season four requiring huge rush job, then uncancelled, then that unfortunate move to TNT), the fact that Babylon 5 turned out as awesome as it did is almost a miracle. Though the last season was dragged out (sadly it was the weakest season, even more than season one) but that's still better than most average shows.

    Nice to hear the IX director is trying to figure out an IU reason for why Luke hasn't just won the day already. Its disappointing to hear that they don't actually have a plan or outline in place, but not surprising either. Not sure if that's better than pretending to have a plan, having a plan but throwing it out after adding in too many twists (which kind of happened with shows like the X-files and Lost), or just making it up as they go along. That's the problem with having characters who are too powerful or successful. Sometimes it is better to just end a story and leave it at that, rather than making too many sequels. Or at least move them into the mentor role already. Old EU had that problem too, of trying to keep escalating the threats so as to pose a suitable challenge for Luke and not bothering to develop new characters enough.

    I remember Dark Horse did a comic based on the old, old original script, but sometimes I wish we could have seen more of Lucas' original nine movie outline. I know at least some of those elements were moved to RotJ (like the "other Skywalker child"), to just wrap things up there, but I still wonder how the nine movie saga could have worked out. Though short of Harry Potter, not many franchises could sustain more than three. Trying for more often turns out worst (like the Hobbit trilogy cash grab).

    Still debating about trying for TLJ Friday or not. TFA had plenty of good reviews too yet I'm glad I didn't rush for that. Though avoiding spoilers for TLJ might be even more difficult than for TFA.
     
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  8. MartyAvidianus

    MartyAvidianus Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    May 14, 2017
    just don't go to the forums that says spoilers here.

    the problem with njo legend characters are some of them new jedi are almost as old as Luke or older (Kam Solusar and Corran Horn, for example) and the younger ones were canon fodder for yuuzhan vong. Only Tahiri Veila and Jaina Solo survived from that class.
    the class with Corran Horn are old and younger fans don't really relate to them, they might as well stick with Luke, and Jaina Solo rubbed me, at least, off because of her portrayal in vector prime. Tahiri was better but half the time she was being tortured by the vong and really developed into a victim character.
     
  9. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    You've been here since 2003, so that means you and I have probably talked SW, on and off, for about 13 years and the moment I'm critical of how they're operating I get this from you?

    All you really had to say is you disagree and you've still got confidence it'll work fine.

    But this is the Internet, so insults it had to be instead, right?
     
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  10. son_of_skywalker03

    son_of_skywalker03 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Any talk of being insutling hardly began with me. Maybe I've simply grown tired of the constant negativity spewn from seemingly all corners of the fanbase anymore.
     
  11. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    OK, tell me where in the post you originally quoted of mine I went and insulted you? Because I'm pretty certain I didn't do that. You seem to be taking what is basically my excising one piece of SW, just for me - everyone else can do what they like, quite personally.

    As for the fanbase, maybe you need to read the other threads because you'll then very easily find masses of the positivity you want.

    EDIT: Oh yeah, few other things I've backed to the hilt on the new stuff:
    • AND / Rebels
    • Lords of the Sith
    • A lot of the new comics
    • Tarkin
    • Catalyst
    • Twilight Company
    • Thrawn
    • The YA and younger material
    So yes, I would take issue with being accused of being too negative!
     
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  12. ChildOfWinds

    ChildOfWinds Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2001
    Definitely! You have always tried to be positive about everything. I can't remember how many times you and Revanfan have tried to pull me up from MY negativity about books and films over the years!!!!
     
  13. son_of_skywalker03

    son_of_skywalker03 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2003
     
  14. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    If you had simply said "I disagree" we wouldn't have had this entire exchange, instead you went for 'eye-rolling' instead, which I found strange because I can guarantee you will find far harsher and hyperbolic posts than mine online. Much, much harsher easily.

    As to those making the new films, they can't put out statements to the effect they're planning it out, which gets people on-board and then later say that yeah, it's making up as we go and not expect some criticism.

    But it's kind of flattering that you seem to think that post of mine matters so much when it's insignificant, no one with any power over the new films is going to read it or do what I tell them.
     
  15. ChildOfWinds

    ChildOfWinds Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2001
    No one is required to love absolutely everything about every film produced or book written. People can choose to like or dislike whatever they choose. When I read reviews of books and movies even by professional critics , they don't give glowing reports to everything. They often have issues with what the filmmaker or author has chosen to do. Not every film or book is a masterpiece even if people are professionals and get paid for their work. And even if nearly everyone likes a particular movie or book, doesn't mean that everyone needs to like it.

    I happen to agree with what Jedi Ben is saying. I think that all of us were given the impression that this trilogy was well planned out in advance, and that they knew where they were going with the story and characters. To now find out that this isn't the case, but that each filmmaker can take the story and characters pretty much wherever they want, and can even leave a "mess" for the next director to try to fix, is really rather disconcerting and annoying. Instead of being a well thought out and planned trilogy, it now seems like they're making it up as they go along. Some fans (maybe even most) may be okay with that, but some of us are not. In order to make this trilogy, they have pretty much destroyed all of Luke, Leia, and Han's accomplishments and left them with miserable lives and no legacies. They also completely nuked the old EU. To now find out that they did all of that to iconic characters and a classic story, and don't even now seem to really have a plan for what will take its place is beyond disappointing; it's actually appalling. At least, that's the way I feel about it, and we are all entitled to our opinions on these boards.
     
  16. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2007
    Honestly not sure why you replied to JB like that, he's one of the more neutral posters. And what negativity? The reaction to TFA was overwhelmingly positive. There's a few dissenting opinions, of course, but even here in this thread there's probably at most... five people who really dislike nucanon (who post semi-regularly at least). In the Literature forum in general, reaction to TFA is a little bit mixed but I'd say positive (though not quite as good as Rogue One, which is probably more popular with the Lit crowd).

    I don't even bother to go to any other places to talk TFA much as I'm tired of the gushing. I could go on a long rant about everything I found wrong with it, but there's not much point anymore. Yeah, I'm a cynical, pessimistic person, but we saw the old EU almost driven into the ground, and still waiting to see them take advantage of a blank slate EU. Rogue One is one of few things to come close to really going all out and being awesome (Rebels comes close sometimes too).
     
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  17. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    If we're talking negativity to TFA then Hav's posts really take some beating, they are masterpieces of invective.

    Besides, we're not a mainstream thread of Lit, we're the weird bar down the beaten track, past a string of broken street lights so you have to really know how to find it, the idea that posts here matter greatly is hilarious.
     
  18. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2007
    Yeah, I remember Havac's review of TFA, one of my favorite actually. Did he review Rogue One? I was avoiding spoilers and by the time I saw Rogue One didn't have time to dig through all the pages of that topic.

    Years back, I thought they said the writer (from Toy Story 3?) had put together an outline for the sequel trilogy. While the director is very important too of course, I had hoped that meant they had a good idea of where to go, that just teasing Luke for the whole first sequel movie would lead to something bigger. Now its pretty much confirmed that they're making it up as they go along. Poe's survival, that news story about Rian Johnson asking them to TFA's ending a bit, etc.

    And not to be entirely negative, but Rian's change shows better understanding of the characters than most of TFA did, which is encouraging. Seriously, after basically leaving Artoo in a classic for years, of course Artoo should be reunited with Luke, rather than the new mascot droid! Its disappointing it took the TLJ director to tell them something obvious like that, but not surprising, not after how TFA.

    And yeah, here the atmosphere is a bit negative, but otherwise, almost everyone else is really hyped. Even I'm honestly tempted to go for a midnight launch (the TLJ director sounds better already).
     
  19. MartyAvidianus

    MartyAvidianus Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    May 14, 2017
    och, the luke skywalker some literally grew up with is gone, replaced by an old man in exile. So he trains Rey like Yoda did him, so what? How are we supposed to save him now? years of struggles wasted and then have nothing.
    How are we supposed to save him? Abeloth young again potion?
     
  20. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    I actually am kind of happy about the revelation because it means that Disney wasn't holding back important details like who the Knights of Ren and who Snoke was.

    They just didn't know.

    :)

    Does Luke need saving? He gave the galaxy thirty years of peace and got to enjoy them.
     
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  21. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    First time in this thread; when I think of "saving Luke," I think of saving him from either the Dark Side or anything else that would be out of character.

    I wasn't bothered by his going into exile, I am assuming the exile was purposeful and not simply his moping on an island because of what Kylo did, especially after Han's comment about his looking for the first Jedi Temple. I wasn't bothered by the fact that his new Order was destroyed, or at least not bothered over that "destroying Luke's legacy," because it was not Luke's fault.

    I also assume that whatever he found at the first Jedi Temple, assuming he found it, will be something he will use to train Rey.

    And I'm another who hopes she is his daughter that he did not know he had.
     
  22. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    My present theory?

    Luke has gone into exile because he lost faith in his mojo and wanted the Jedi Temple to provide him some secret to give him the encouragement to defeat Snoke and redeem or stop his nephew. Instead, he found nothing. Rey, by contrast, will restore that faith in the Force and his role in it.

    I can see Mark Hamill disliking it but I think it's a valid position.
     
  23. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I can see him being a bit cynical and hard on himself after what happened, just as Obi-Wan was. I would not find that out of character. But I did not like the Dark Empire direction of turning Luke to the Dark Side, although I know the reasons given in those comics. I need a light-side Luke who is not temperamental.
     
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  24. ChildOfWinds

    ChildOfWinds Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2001
    Welcome to the SOS thread, anakinfansince1983!

    Yes, I agree that Luke Needs to be saved from the darkside and from out of character things like blowing up huts in anger or telling Rey to kill kylo, or from placing the blame on him for kylo's fall. Luke's exile had better be purposeful!!! I really need a great reason for Luke walking away from everyone and everything, especially since with his Jedi abilities, he was the one best equipped to deal with fallen kylo and with Snoke.

    However, I disagree about the Jedi order. I am very annoyed that ALL of Luke's Jedi were wiped out. I don't care whether it was Luke's fault or not, the fact remains that Luke's life work was totally destroyed. 30 years of his life ended up being a waste. He has no legacy now, and he should have the legacy of the restoration of the Jedi order. Now I fear that the filmmakers will give that honor, that legacy, to their own original character, Rey, instead of to the iconic character of Luke skywalker, and I feel that would be unfair and wrong. I like Rey, and I do want her to be Luke's daughter, but I don't want Luke's legacy to be taken from him and given to her. She can help to build the order and train more Jedi later, but I want Luke to be the one who gets credit for restoring what his father was largely responsible for destroying.

    Charlemagne19, I disagree that Luke got to enjoy 30 years of peace. He spent 6 years in exile, and before that, he spent many years searching for all things Jedi, and then spent many years training new Jedi, only to lose all of them. Plus, he had to deal with his wayward nephew, and he didn't seem to get to spend much time with his sister or Han. He didn't seem to have a very happy life.
     
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  25. ChildOfWinds

    ChildOfWinds Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2001
    C, having Luke basically just give up and lose all hope would be awful, and extremely out of character for the Luke of the OT films. I also hate the idea that Luke would just leave his family, friends, and the galaxy to deal with Snoke, kylo, and the first order without offering to help. There weren't even any other Jedi to take on Snoke and kylo in his absence. A Luke who would just lose all caring and compassion and sense of duty and responsibility, is NOT the Luke I knew and loved. I wouldn't care for that character at all! If that's all I am going to get, I would have preferred it if Luke had died between RotJ and TFA, rather than changed into someone I don't even recognize anymore.