SOS - SON OF SKYWALKER : YOU (THE FANS) ARE MY ONLY HOPE!! SAVE ME... (Spoilers)

OK: After much thought on Luke?s character, I have trouble with one NJO plot only: Why did Luke allow a pair of teenagers to take charge of the activation of a superweapon that makes the Death Star insignificant?


PAIR? One had to be used, only he could activate it! Jacen I dont know, but maybe because Anakin would most likely listen to Anakin? They didnt go to start it up, they went to see what could be done. IMO, the idea was more to come back with requests and such over anything else.



Anyway, people forget. Luke was moaned at that how he used to go about things was wrong. So, want to complain that Luke isnt more active? Some blame can go the way of the red head.

 

*Ahem*

NEW JEDI Order.

It says it all on the title. If you go out to buy Lucky Charms and you find something else inside, take time to read the front of the box. I'm sure it mentions something about that "something else" being inside.

This isn't the Luke Jedi Order, and I doubt everyone would want it to be. You talk about Obi Wan being an old Jedi and relate him to Luke. Obi Wan was in the middle of the desert for nineteen odd years doing nothing at all.

I'm sure Luke will have more mentions now that he has a child. As for Dark Journey, he wasn't needed to tell the story. Just like he isn't needed for X-wing novels or a bunch of other EU stuff.

 

No kidding.

It always perplexed me to see most of the criticisms of this series stemming from an age argument. Oh, these guys are too young, or Luke is not that old yet. Or DR pushed the older heroes into the background.

I mean VP made it abundantly clear this series will feature a newer generation of Jedi.

In the past, we saw others help Luke, Leia and Han defeat a myriad of treacherous foes. Now it's their turn to help the newer generation of heroes. Why is that so bad? Oh, that's right, because Luke IS Star Wars. I keep forgetting.

 

How does NEW JEDI order in any way suggest Luke is becoming a minimal player? For a very, very, very long time there was NO JEDI order. I took that title to mean there were now more then 2 jedi in the universe taking active roles, not that it meant Luke was retiring. The OLD JEDI order I would think would be Yoda, Qui-gonn, and Obi Wans order, thus the NEW JEDI order would be Lukes and Leais, not Jaina, Jacens, and Lowbacca's. Don't get me wrong, I bought into this series excited about reading about other jedi, but I didn't think it meant the classic heroes would be pushed into a background of non-existance and non-action. If ya take a look at the back cover of "Conquest", it says: "The dazzling Star Wars space adventure The New Jedi Order continues as Luke Skywalker, Anakin Solo, Mara Jade Skywalker, and others..." Ok well they got the Anakin part right, but if I'm not mistaken Luke and Mara had a total of about 10-20 pages in that book, in which they refused to go save their young students, and Anakin had to ignore their senility and go without permission. If anything Anakin Solo's name should be featured ahead of Lukes in that description. The backs of these books have in no way suggested, nor did the beginning of this series, that the classic heroes were being fitted with dentures and the young bucks taking over. I did want to read about the younger jedi, but I expected a lot more balance then this series has offered, and a lot more direction and help being offered to the young bucks then the old farts have given.

 

Nichos,

Yes, it says NEW Jedi Order. But just what does "new" mean? The old Jedi Order died with Yoda. Luke was the first of the New Jedi Order back when it was an order of one. Luke Skywalker built the order up; he is as much a part of it as these new teenie-boppers we've had shoved in our faces without any warning. And since Luke got the Jedi going again, it is his order. Now if only he would find something for his Order to do that would be very decicive.

Luke was not integral to the X-Wing novels, however he has been heavily involved in the NJO from the beginning. Like it or not, Luke's involved and he is the senior Jedi. I only spoke of Obi-wan in the sense of the previous generation dying to make room for the next.

The crux of the problem is the fact that both of these generations are alive at the same time. However, instead of having the balance between kids and adults in VP and DT, we get the little twirps shoved in our faces for several books ad nauseum.

 

Luke was not integral to the X-Wing novels, however he has been heavily involved in the NJO from the beginning

But why so involved in a little story about Jaina? My only reason for mentioning the X-Wings were because someone said about him getting no Dramatis Personae listing in DJ.


However, instead of having the balance between kids and adults in VP and DT, we get the little twirps shoved in our faces for several books ad nauseum

But instead of having a balance of characters throughout the entire series, Hand of Thrawn shoved Zahn creations into our face

To me, it is the same, except that one was a duology, one is a series.

BTW, think the word is 'twerp'. THINK, anyway

 

Well then explain why Luke hasn't been really used for a significant role thus far? I don't know what that says to you, but to me it means "Move over old man, let us take over." After all it wasn't Luke that went on the Jedi strike mission.

 

Nichos_Marr is right. The New Jedi Order is about the younger Jedi. Mostly the Solo kids. Luke has already saved the galaxy a hundred times. Its time for him to move over. Besides he has a kid to take care of now.

 

Reaper,

I didn't realize you were only talking about DJ. You're right--Luke is not integral to the story.

The only Zahn creations I see as having been shoved in our collective face in HoT would be Karrde and Car'Das (whatever his name was). The roles that the other characters occupied were fine with me, even though I felt that Zahn's pacing in TTT was far snappier than in HoT. If he had picked up the pacing, perhaps I would have enjoyed the duology more.

But you're still talking apples and oranges. Apple - HoT (2 books), oranges - NJO (approx. 20 books). I don't see it as the same thing. I wouldn't have as much of a problem if the uberkinden had a trilogy which revolved around them, in which Luke, Han and Leia would not appear--there would still be plenty of other novels to pay attention to them.

But for the series to revolve around the uberkinden strikes me as being quite unfair to those of us who want to read more about Luke, Han and Leia. I may see these three characters as misguided idealistic schmucks, however, I wish to read about their ongoing adventures. I still continue to hope for an Imperial resurgence or for the NR to fall apart due to its own intertia.

It could certainly be within the realm of possibility that Jacen, Jaina and Anakin may have been selected to head up a mission or possibly even several, but the problem is with the execution.

However, it does not make sense for Jacen, Jaina and Anakin to be everywhere and to be doing everything. One of the things that I liked about SBS was that we finally got some more Jedi fleshed-out; the only downside being that they're more teenie-boppers. Surely there must be more Jedi in the over nineteen crowd besides Luke, Kyp, Cilghal, Kam, Streen and Tionne. They're the Jedi I want to see more of--not more kids.

Now to return to the Myrkr mission. If the Vong already created one Voxyn Queen, what is to stop them from whipping up another one? If they made one, why can't they make another. Yes, it may take them a couple months, but it still could be done.

 

Now to return to the Myrkr mission. If the Vong already created one Voxyn Queen, what is to stop them from whipping up another one? If they made one, why can't they make another. Yes, it may take them a couple months, but it still could be done.

But if they CANT remake one, then the Vong have been hit hard, and the NR/Jedi have a major achievment.

 

This might not be the correct thread to post this in...I suspect that Nen Yim created the Voxyn queen, or was somehow related to that creation. She's reached the eighth cortex and knows a lot about shaping that even Masters do not. Perhaps the Voxyn queen was a perfect shaping design, and it would be very difficult for the same one to be produced on that level of perfection?

 

Yes, that would be substantial victory then. You wouldn't happen to be able to cite any evidence to back yourself up, would you? If you do, lay it on me.

 

NichosMarr: Well then explain why Luke hasn't been really used for a significant role thus far? I don't know what that says to you, but to me it means "Move over old man, let us take over." After all it wasn't Luke that went on the Jedi strike mission.
THAT is what we are saying is one of the main problems with the NJO.
It SHOULD have been Luke's new Jedi order.
It SHOULD have been Luke leading the strike against the voxin factory.
For some reason, totally incomprehensible to many of us, the powers-that-be at DelRey and LFL chose to shove Luke in the background and thrust the teen-aged Jedi to a prominence that they are not ready for.

-Vergere- : In the past, we saw others help Luke, Leia and Han defeat a myriad of treacherous foes. Now it's their turn to help the newer generation of heroes. Why is that so bad?
I'd be more than happy to see Luke and the others helping the new generation. But that's not what the NJO has given us since VP and the Stackpole books.

 

You wouldn't happen to be able to cite any evidence to back yourself up, would you? If you do, lay it on me.

Grand Admiral Wettengel, I realize that I?m not RF, but I think that I can site some evidence to support his theory.

If the Vong could just whip up a new voxyn Queen, then why did they go though all that trouble to clone the first one? Why not just create a fresh one every time one was needed?

And if they could just whip up a new queen, why did they spend so much time and energy to protect the first one? There were a lot of Vong worriers that gave their lives to protect that queen. Why did they have so much military force protecting something that they could just remake anytime they wanted to?

The Voxyn Queen was very important to them, and it wasn?t something that they could just remake at a whim. If it was, they wouldn?t have had so much military strength protecting it.


For some reason, totally incomprehensible to many of us, the powers-that-be at DelRey and LFL chose to shove Luke in the background and thrust the teen-aged Jedi to a prominence that they are not ready for.

I take that statement to mean that you haven?t read the YJK or JJK series, Dewlanna Solo. YJK and JJK are 20 books worth of getting ready for what they are doing now in the NJO. They are more prepared for what is going on in the NJO than Luke was when he went up against the Emperor. These young Jedi have demonstrated more power and restraint than Luke ever did when he was their age. They are more than ready to face this new enemy.

 

Luke Skywalker is the "First of the New" as labeled by Obi Wan himself, so I expected to read stories about Luke leading and directing the Jedi that he has trained and going on missions and starting apprentiships with the kids. It's funny how after 20 years and countless books and other medium, I still want to read stories about Luke, Han and Leia, but after a very short time of having the Jacen, Jaina and Anakin shoved down my throat, I am bored already, with the late super hero Anakin, and Jaina's permanent pms, Jacen's perpetual teenage angst. They can never hold a candle to the original characters. This site wouldn't even be here, if it wasn't for the "Adventures of Luke Skywalker."

Jedi Ben, You bring up many things that Luke has done, but we have gotten very little words actually showing him doing any of those things, or what his thinking process was. We were only told that he did something, and to top it off when he is refered to by other characters, it is often in an unflatering light. He has no real developed plot line of his own. Then to top everything off, they haven't written his wife Mara right once, with the exception of Ms Tyres. She has been just as poorly characterized as Luke.

 

Luke Skywalker is the "First of the New" as labeled by Obi Wan himself?

Luke was the first of the new at the time of TTT. Now, over 16 years later, he?s not so new anymore. He?s not old, but he has taken a more Yoda like position, rather than a young Jedi worrier like position. I think that is to be expected.

? but after a very short time of having the Jacen, Jaina and Anakin shoved down my throat?

Nobody has been shoved down your thought. If you don?t like the characters, then don?t read the books. It really is that simple when you come down to it. If you want to keep reading Star Wars, but don?t want to read about the Solo kids, then read some prequel stuff, or something from the Bantam era that you might have missed.

 

JediJSolo, as a matter of act I HAVE read the YJK and the JJK, and enjoyed them. As a mother and school library volunteer, I often read elementary and jr high books so I can recommend the good ones to kids I care about.
Believe me, at the end of the Black Sun YJK books there is NO WAY Jacen & Jania were ready to take on the Vong.
The way the kids were written in VP was fine. The Master/Apprentice relationship was still working. In Stackpole's books the Solo kids were still the ?junior partners'- still apprentices. I would have liked to see this balance between younger and older heros continued much longer than it was.
If, at the END of the NJO, the YJK bunch were ready to take over for Luke and the other Jedi from the JAT days, I would find that believable and acceptable.
To have them leading the fight the way they have since Conquest seems to me to just be pandering to a young audience, an audience that DelRey/LFL seem to think can't relate to older heros.
DelRey and LFL are wrong if they think most younger readers need conquering teen heros to enjoy an adventure. If that were the case, no one younger than 40 would be a Star Wars fan because no one who was under 20 when ANH was released in ?77 would have enjoyed the story.

 

BTW, These young Jedi have demonstrated more power and restraint than Luke ever did when he was their age.
We don't know what Luke was like at their age. J&J are 16 or so, Anakin a year and a half younger. Luke WAS 20 when ANH was first released. His age was subsequently revised to 18 to match Leia's when GL decided to make them twins.
J&J may have more training as Jedi than Luke had in ANH, but they don't have the maturity that Luke had when he faced Palpatine in RotJ, they don't rely on the wisdom of a mature Jedi as Luke did in ANH and ESB.
It's a different ball game altogether.

If DR/LFL wanted the YJK bunch to take over as completely as they have, they should have taken the plunge and killed off the old guys, not just put them out to pasture.
Since they have left the ?old guys' alive, they ought to make better use of them.

 

I just read this thread for the first time. Some of it, anyway; the posts are so long, I'd be here all night if I tried to read all of it.

Maybe this was in a post I skipped, but has everyone missed the fact that Jacen is just as wimpy and indecisive in the NJO as Luke is? I keep expecting the two of them to move to Dagobah and live in a tree stump, meditating all day long.

If you want to complain that Anakin and Jaina have had bigger roles than they should, fine, maybe there's some truth in that, but Jacen? Come on.

And I know this thread is more about Luke than Han and Leia, but didn't anyone notice that the "Agents of Chaos" duology could just as easily have been called "The Adventures of Han and Droma?"

I always liked the movies more for their overall stories than for any specific characters, and for that reason I've loved the NJO - the key characters from the OT are still playing major roles, but I think the Solo kids are being groomed as worthy successors to their parents' and uncle's legacies.

(Well, Jaina is and Anakin was, at any rate. Hopefully Jacen will come around, and we'll at least have him and Jaina.)

 

Dewlanna Solo -

I'd be more than happy to see Luke and the others helping the new generation. But that's not what the NJO has given us since VP and the Stackpole books.

Ultimately, this will come down to a matter of interpretation and personal interests. Surely, by "Luke and the others" you also mean Han & Leia. Since the DT duology we had Hero's Trial. Han Solo takes center stage here and saves the Jedi from a nefarious plot. In Jedi Eclipse, we consistently see Han & Leia taking center stage - albeit in a fashion frowned upon by many of their fans. In Balance Point, we are privy to more of Han & Leia in leadership positions. In fact Luke returned here in grand fashion, imparting much wisdom and guidance to Jacen and resolving a devious plot on Duro's space stations. Conquest was Anakin's book. Even so, we see Karrde here, also helping quite a bit. Rebirth showed Han, Leia and Luke in prominent fashion once again. Han & Leia were in fact leading a mission, and Luke was organizing Jedi for future projects which take form in SbS, etc. God forbid Luke is shown to care more for his wife and baby than a war. Half of Star by Star dealt with Luke leading concerted Jedi efforts. Luke showed more compassion for the pilots under him and Kyp's pilots than Kyp (Luke checks more than once whether Kyp's pilots were alright and had gone EV or not in the thick of the battle). If this Luke still fails in your vision of how Luke should act in the NJO, I'm not sure you will ever find solace in any of the NJO character depictions, much less of those damned Solo twirps..

And if young Jedi trained at an academy lack the preparation needed to handle the YV, surely a 19 year-old farmer boy - equivalent in age to those damned Solo brats now - couldn't even begin to fathom how to handle an empire. With crude flying skills, we must surely criticize the events which took place in ANH when other pilots - much older than Luke - fell out of the sky like they never existed.

And if we are to buy into this Star Wars myth - that of a bloodline which flows strong in the Force - I don't understand the problems one would have with Han & Leia's kids accomplishing remarkable feats. Would it be more acceptable if was Luke's kids? Oh wait, that's right, teeny boppers shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the EU where older, wiser and more formidible characters exist. These older characters have all the answers and should dominate any and all storylines any way applicable. Anything below our standards of how "active" the older generation should be, is unacceptable.

Right.

 

There is a big difference, Fett, between the X-Wing novels that are just meant to be companion pieces, something to fill the store bookshelves between mainline books, and the New Jedi Order which is the ONLY post-ROTJ SW being written now.

Really? Do you really believe that? They were a series of 9 novels, the longest series to date before the New Jedi Order. I somehow suspect that Stackpole and Allston, not to mention several people here, would disagree with you.

Luke Skywalker is the heart and soul of the middle third of the Star Wars Saga. Until GL makes episodes 7,8, and 9, I expect Luke to remain a focal point.

Expect? Since there will be no 7, 8, or 9, don't hold your breath. New characters mean new adventures and new possibilities. Don't get me wrong, I like Luke, even after his castration under Zahn, he remains one of my favorite characters.

Luke Skywalker has been turned into a clueless, indecisive wimp who hasn't contributed in a meaningful way in a book since Onslaught or Ruin.

Oh, I'd take a step back in time to the Thrawn Trilogy and make that claim.

Obviously his actions in Star by Star elude you.

I'm sorry, but 'New Jedi Order' seems to be a bit of a dead giveaway.

 

I was going to post here again, but after catching up with the other posts in this thread, I see that Crow_T_Fett and -Vergere- have already covered each and every one of the points I was going to make. So... I'll just pop in to say that I agree with them. And it seems that others do too, or the NJO wouldn't be nearly as successful as it's been thus far.

 

-Vergere-: <<stands up and claps hands>>

Can't be said any better than that.


If you don't like the NJO, DON'T READ IT!! Go watch the movies, or re-read the Bantam books again. But the EU is moving on, and introducing new heroes. If you don't like it, well, I'm sorry about that, but plenty of us do.

 

Just like Dew, I've read all of JJK and YJK. I've enjoyed their adventures in those books that is especially titled for the young Solos, but incorporating them in NJO made this series such a mismatch of the old and the new.

I agree with GAW that having both the generation alive at the same time is a problem. There are many different creative ways of taking this series which could have made the passing of the torch from the old to the young more gracefully. For example, look at the way Obi-Wan, who was at least above 20 on TPM, respected his master Qui-gon as his leader on any mission. But not in NJO, the teenagers not only devise master plans, handle sophisticated weaponry, lead the mission, and their elder Jedis just agreeing to everything.

Is there no need for a leader in this new Jedi order? There is a need for a leader and Luke Skywalker is the obvious choice before this series became the New Jedi Disorder. And Luke need to be shown doing the leading in clear writing, not just mere insinuation that he did with the pov of the youngsters in NJO.

JediJSolo - Nobody has been shoved down your thought. If you don?t like the characters, then don?t read the books. It really is that simple when you come down to it. If you want to keep reading Star Wars, but don?t want to read about the Solo kids, then read some prequel stuff, or something from the Bantam era that you might have missed.

You've a bit late on this one because I really have not read any more books after the disastrous potrayal of Luke in SBS. Yet, I'm still frustrated that he was written so badly that the younger generation of Star Wars is calling for his death. To me and many of my friends, he doesn't deserve to die just yet.

Some Bantam books depicted Luke just as callow, hermit and a lot of other negative traits, but then we have a CHOICE because most series last only three books. When NJO came out, I thought maybe now Luke would be portrayed better. I was wrong.... and worse, I have no choice - it's either NJO or more NJO till eternity...by the look of it.

 

Luke's portrayal was disasterous in Star by Star?? How do you figure? What about him was out of character? Was it because he was dynamic and interesting and being proactive instead of a sullen p-whipped hermit?

And Vergere- nice job!