SOS - SON OF SKYWALKER : YOU (THE FANS) ARE MY ONLY HOPE!! SAVE ME... (Spoilers)

HI!!!!!

I'M BACK!!!!!

Actually I've been back home almost a week, but as soon as I'd returned I got a very bad cold, so all my spare time was spent blowing my nose. But that was all right. As long as I was well during my trip!

Yes, my trip! Remember? I was going to be in Germany close to three weeks? To go to World Youth Day and see the Pope himself? Well, I did all that and more, with my closest friends besides me. It was wonderful. We toured different little towns where the Schoenstatt heroes lived, and went on a boat trip down the Rhine River (where we saw 3-5 castles!), and walked all over Cologne (which is where WYD was held). The cathedral in Cologne is the biggest and most beautiful building I've seen so far in my life--that most of our group had seen so far. It was astounding. And the people that were there! Thousands and thousands of kids--hundreds of thousands! There were 800,000 officially registered for WYD, and at Marienfeld (which is where the vigil and Mass with our awesome Pope were held) there were over a million. Can you imagine being in a crowd of over a million? I know now, for I was there.

So, my friends, if you would like to refresh me on the current topics you are discussing that would be great. I see we've hit 10,000 posts. 10,000! And still going strong! We may have to restart this thread. And if you have any questions about my trip (actually it was a pilgramage) PLEASE ASK.

 

kddidit;
Greetings! How is everyone, staying busy?

I'm VERY busy now that school has started!

I can see Luke (or maybe Leia) having to redeem Jacen, thus breaking the Sith cycle in the Skywalker family, if Jacen goes all the way to the Dark Side. Maybe he won't. Maybe something (like impending fatherhood) will wake him up?

That just might shake him up enough to change his ways!

Oh, I hope they've learned and will remember that for many of us, the story of Star Wars is Luke's story. I don't begrudge books and/or games to the PT fans, KOTOR fans and those who like the Young Jedi Knights, but d@mn, don't neglect the original characters.

AMEN!

Have a great first day of school!!

Thanks! It was hectic, and I have a couple of children who are going to try my patience, but most of the class is very sweet, and they're all very cute!

We had a school picnic and ice cream social in the evening too, so it's been a LONG day!

Could happen, what with better health care technology available in the GFFA. "Legacy" seems like another attempt at transitioning character focus to the next generation. Makes me a li'l bit nervous.

It makes ME nervous too!

"Quicker. Easier. More seductive." Yoda Not a very promising beginning for Dark Nest series, for all I liked reading TJK better than anything NJO.

Yes, I agree. I haven't figured out yet just why I enjoyed reading TJK more than NJO though. Maybe it just goes to show how truly terrible the NJO was?

roguejedi589;
I agree that Del Rey could totally destroy my vision of Grand Master Luke. I am just SOOOO tired of the way they bounce his character around. I am all for artistic license, but come on! He needs to be portrayed as the ultimate leader of the light. Period. I think its long over due.

So do I! We really do need that e-petition that KD suggested. Either that, or we should all flood Ms. Shapiro's e-mail box with letters!

The difference is, everyone needs to come to a point where they can say, "Gee, Master Skywalker, I don't know if I agree with your opinion on this matter, but OUT OF RESPECT FOR THE FACT THAT ALL YOUR HARD WORK AND PERSONAL SACRIFICE REBUILDING THE ORDER GAVE ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THIS JEDI GIG IN THE FIRST PLACE, I will abide by your wishes."

Right! Or at least respectfully request more discussion on the issue and suggest viable alternatives. And then abide by Luke's wishes if they can't reach a consensus. Luke DOES need to take charge and direct the Jedi more. As I said before, there are all chiefs and no followers in the Jedi order, so chaos is beginning to ensue.

I will stop rambling soon, I promise. But just once I would like to see a Jedi, any Jedi, just be thankful that they live in a galaxy where they CAN be Jedi, because of Luke.

You know, you're right, RJ. I don't think I've ever heard anyone express gratitude to Luke for training him/her or for enriching his/her life by helping to unlock those inner gifts. Once they're Jedi, they seem to forget how they came to be Jedi. It really *is* irritating when Jedi knights argue with Luke and/or go their own way because they suddenly seem to think they know better than he does. They all seem to become arrogant.

It's kind of like owning your own successful business, eating apple pie, enjoying baseball, voting, wearing whatever clothes you choose, pretty much all things American, and then saying, "Poo on all the founding fathers, and all the civil rights activists, and all the people who helped make this place wonderful, and everything that was ever done to guarantee these rights to me because I'm entitled. It's owed to me."

Well said, RJ!
Sorry. If it weren't for Luke, there would be no Jedi Order.

EXACTLY!

It's already getting late, so I'll catch up with the rest of you

 

Morning guys. Hope you are all well. I thought I'd be done the book by now but had to put it aside to read Archive stories. We are pretty backlogged since Rots.

Anyway I have a link that you all might get a kick out of. Reading this page in one of these is a riot.


http://rinkworks.com/dialect/

Since I can't jump in yet with much on the book I thought I'd post something from the FFR Anakin thread to see what CoW has to say about this. I know she's gonna have an opinion. So considering the pre-quels and the EU is Luke just a player in all of this? Seems like Jacen has taken the stage in the EU too.

Wonderful tidbit from the book How to Write Science Fiction and Fantasy by Orson Scott Card copyright
1990 Pages 70-71.

"Take the third Star Wars movie, Return of the Jedi. The first two movies had focused on Luke Skywalker, Princess Leia, and
Han Solo -- but it was clear that the story was about Luke Skywalker. As the movies became hits and penetrated American culture, however, a curious thing was happening.
An extraordinary number of children seemed to admire the monstrous villain, Darth Vader... [because] no matter how busy the good guys were, everything they did was in reaction to Darth Vader. HE was the one calling the shots.
He was the one with the power and freedom to act...
By the third movie, probably without any of the filmmakers' being aware of it, Darth Vader was the main character, even though Luke, Leia, and Han remained protagonists.
Yes, they have neat adventures... but all of these events are just devices to get them ready for their confrontation
with the one character whose choices actually matter : Darth Vader. It's no accident that the climax of Return of the Jedi is Darth Vader's choice to turn against the evil emperor
and save the life of his son -- his choice to reject the dark side of the force. Everything came down to Darth Vader's
choice. He was the center of the film. It was HIS story."

Remember this observation was made before the prequels were ever started. Maybe a select few knew that the prequels were more than rumor, but even then people realized Star Wars was all about Vader!

 

SPOILERS


























































By the way, follow this link for major spoilers for the whole trilogy, including one fascinating piece of information that Luke fans will love. To discuss it, I think we're supposed to use the discussion threads pinned at the top (unsure about tfn moderation these days...)

Link here lol...

You've been warned; major spoilers.

































































END SPOILERS

 

Jk Dart






Spoiler












umm.... are you talking about his fated role as true master ? or is it something else ?








Spoilers End

 

MS86,

i knew that would catch your intrest JB.

* Quite so.

weird thing is that the controls felt weird on GC compare to the ps2. that and i don't understand the story. my cousin who let me borrow the game is a huge metal gear fan and knows everything, but from all the info i can get it was A VERY complex splintercell.

* Not a bad summary, but you don't have a prat forever yelling 'the mission's over!', just monster cut-scenes.

LOL!!! and vader was not !?! what about his personal starship the executor ?

* Shouldn't that have been painted red, then?

Dart,

What exactly are you pointing to? As I've seen that info before, quite a bit of it is useful, especially the timeframe for the trilogy but beyond that?

JB

 

Four weeks from today The Unseen Queen comes out. I'm already getting worried!

Well, I'll catch up with a few posts today, but I don't think I'll get to all of them.

MasterSkywalker86;
Hey everyone!!! long day at work and my college is going to start in Sept 1st.

May the Force Be with you on your first day of college, MS!

for the people dealing with hurricane katrina. nasty weather they're having.

It's REALLY SAD! More than half of Louisiana is under water!

To everyone what do you want luke to do that's incredibly powerful in TSW ?

I'd like him to have a GOOD vision that comes true, and I'd like him to defeat a darksider. More than anything though, I want Luke to get the Jedi back on track, and I want him to get rid of the new view of the Force.

I hope you get good children tommorrow though,

They're really a pretty good group. There are two that are EXTREMELY hyperactive though. They have the attention span of knats! It will definitely be a challenge to teach them to read!

but i hope things won't go too hectic for me with school & work. All work and no play make Jack a dull boy!!

Good luck!

also snow isn't necessary a bad thing, remember we get snow days, YAY!!!

We don't get many. They clean the roads really well and quickly around here. I like snow though as long as I don't have to drive in a blizzard. I think it's cozy to sit by the fireplace and read a good book with snow falling outside.

Really he actually said that ROTJ would be his last SW film. i wonder if GL's nose is growing bigger and bigger,

LOL!

why ? how did u imagine them to be ?

Well, I thought I'd like the Jedi Order better. I didn't expect Anakin to be an arrogant, whiny, possessive person who really isn't too bright. I didn't think Vader would ever know he had children until after the ANH, and I thought Padme would have lived until Leia was about 4. . I didn't expect Anakin to kill younglings, and I expected him to fall when he was older, say 35 or so. I thought we would have seen more of him as a good person. I expected there to be more of a reason why Leia went to Alderaan and Luke to Tatooine. At one time, I also expected to find out that Obi-wan was Luke's grandfather. I wasn't expecting midichlorians or a virgin birth or Anakin as "the Chosen One". Lots of things.

don't u mean TSW or TUQ ?

Oh, of course! Sorry!

i think JB or Kdiddit have the right idea, luke did recall the familiarity when yoda was near. so he recognize yoda's presense.

Yes, that's what I thought.

yeah luke only gave himslf the rank of jedi master, because he knew he experience many things in his journeys.

I'm not even sure Luke ever gave himself the title. They just seemed to start calling him that. In fact, I think it was that author of the dreaded DE that used it first.

I think it's possible the council would give him that rank.

That would be fine!

I hope luke's TSW moment will really spectacular and powerful.

Yes, spectacular, powerful, and NOT dark!

by the way can u please give me shelly's e-mail address please.

I will try to remember to do that when I go online. If I forget send me a PM and then I'll definitely remember to send it to you.

well the thing is from miss shelly i got an email back, saying i would like luke's progression in the books

The only bad thing is that Miss Shelly always says that even when Luke is written like an idiot in the next book. Maybe this time she won't be speaking from "a certain point of view".

thanks for the info, that's pretty amazing that he sense yoda as a little skycrawler. the little dickins.

LOL! That *is* preey amazing when you think about it!

Ah, that is troublesome, especially in a large country.
what can u do ? they have to find their own path, no one can choose it for them.

LOL! I love some of your lines, MS. They give me a good chuckle.

* "You can't win C

 

COW,

Yep! That's me! Clumsy AND verbose. I'm definitely a motormouth with a keyboard!

* Only with a keyboard or are you a chatterbox in real life?

Yes. A lot of the people who had loved the NJO up until then suddenly hated it. I think it was a huge mistake to kill off the most interesting Solo kid.

* Yep, things got a lot more interesting on the board with a whole spectrum of iews on NJO appearing.

EXACTLY....but then, of course, Del Rey would have needed to be more creative, and since they didn't have any new ideas, everything that was beginning to work and make sense in the Jedi and in the galactic government, was abandoned and thrown out the window, leaving everything at Square One again.

* I think they mistakenly thought everything had to match up to the Jedi as depicted in the PT or the fans would cry foul, which does have some truth to it, but given they had an easy counter: The Empire destroyed the old Jedi therefore the change, they should have resisted the temptation.

Except for Mon Mothma though, everyone, including Luke, thought he was an idiot when it came to politics...at least after the Allston duology, when MARA had to explain all things political to poor bumpkin Luke.

* I never got that bit! Still, Mon Mothma's opinion doesn't really count much does it? I mean she only started the Rebellion, led it for 30 odd years, set up the NR...

I don't know... I think Luke COULD make a good political leader because he is resourceful and cool-headed. But I think it would be problematic for Jedi who are already so powerful in the Force to also be powerful political figures. What do you think about Luke being in politics?

* I think it'd be great! I loved the pointed comments Luke was making in NJO where senators were concerned, recall his line in BP to the Senator who saw the Vong threat to Tattooine being of no concern, only the threat to his world of Rodia. "All worlds are my concern." Then there is his showdown with the Senate in SBS. Plus his destruction of Rodan's support base in DW by threatening said Senators with the truth of their past acts. Oh yeah, I'd like to see more of this.

I can't reconcile the two views either. They just don't seem to match up!

* Fragments can be linked but it's very tricky.

More tomorrow! Where does the time go?

* I'm not really sure.

JB

 

Hello fellow fans of Luke,

Someone reminded me that this list is getting over 10,000 - Applause to everyone and especially to CHILD OF WINDS. She is the one who keeps reminding me that we need to keep fighting for this good guy.

Again - WOW!! Super WOW!! It's nice to know that Luke Skywalker ** my favorite hero ** has great staying power. Maybe I'm wrong but this thread that I started in anger (see the ALL CAPS TITLE) ...maybe, just maybe, has a hand in correcting and spawning this whole new series on the JEDI MASTER.

I would like to comment on MariahJade about the other Son of Skywalker - you know, the one with a difficulty in breathing who's renamed Darth V... I've finally realised something about the "bad guys". They are soooo... fascinating, so exquisitely exciting both in writing and in movies that it is hard not to have that love/hate relationship with them. Thus, his popularity over his son.

Then there's the question of whether they are really evil or are they evil because that is the only way they can gain something good - like peace or equality for all? In D. V.'s case, that would be creating peace or his version of peace without going through the arduous and sometimes pointless process of getting consensus from the majority in the Senate. Then, there would be peace and of course, a leadership of one!

But nothing happens like that in the real world. Humans and I would imagine, aliens too, don't like to be told what they should and shouldn't do. There will always be arguments and debates in order to change anything. As a matter of fact, that is exactly what all of us are doing with this thread - fighting to save our esteemed character from being thrown out, pushed back, considered old and ancient, forced to delve in the darkside and every other imaginable weaknesses. Why? Because being GOOD is not considered interesting, not seductive enough, and doesn't stand out compared to being EVIL. As Luke is not evil, he is made to be weak. By the way, I've heard the arguments that he is after all a human and thus, weak. Oh! gobbledygook! There must be a way that a writer can go beyond his/her imagination and write about a good leader, Jedi or otherwise, having as much excitement as the bad guy without using a "weakness". I'm sure it could be done. It is not easy but where's the excitement if it's easy, right?

Well, here's to our favorite character - LUKE SKYWALKER!! Of course, I should not forget his creator - Mr LUCAS. Long Live to both of you and may you showcase the idea that ordinary people with extraordinary goodness of heart is the only HOPE of the future where peace overrides war.


Skydancer

 

Skydancer:
Hello fellow fans of Luke,
Again - WOW!! Super WOW!! It's nice to know that Luke Skywalker ** my favorite hero ** has great staying power.

SKYDANCER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Welcome back!!!!!! It's been a LONG time since you came to visit this thread that you created so long ago! It's still kicking!

Maybe I'm wrong but this thread that I started in anger (see the ALL CAPS TITLE) ...maybe, just maybe, has a hand in correcting and spawning this whole new series on the JEDI MASTER.

We can only HOPE that Luke will be portrayed well in the rest of the Dark Nest Trilogy and the Legacy series. Luke IS supposed to show why he's the greatest Jedi Master in the galaxy in The Swarm War, and he's supposed to be called the Jedi GRAND MASTER!

Maybe this thread also helped LFL and Del Rey decide to make the 60's the new 40's so Luke, Leia, and Han can be active participants for much longer.

Don't be a stranger, Skydancer! Post again soon!

Did you enjoy your trip?

I'll answer the rest of the posts later. I was so excited about seeing Skydancer here that I just had to make a short post right now!

 

MariahJade2:
So considering the pre-quels and the EU is Luke just a player in all of this?

I have said for a long time now that Luke is being diminished, both by George Lucas in having Anakin be his big hero (Though I personally disagree that Anakin is a hero. I still see him as more of a villain.) and by the EU, where he is always weakened in someway or upstaged by someone. In the NJO and now in Dark Nest, Luke looks like the indecisive, incompetent idiot who can never seem to remember things that he already learned. He's rarely portrayed as a strong, wise, resourceful leader and role model. He rarely seems to accomplish much of anything.

That' s one of the reasons that I keep posting in this thread, hoping that SOMEONE from Del Rey and LFL will realize how much poor Luke has been mishandled and do something to improve his characterization so he doesn't seem like just a footnote in SW history. Unfortunately, I'm afraid it's a lost cause.

Seems like Jacen has taken the stage in the EU too.

He was certainly given some of the most important heroic roles in the NJO, and now in TJK, he seems to have all kinds of special Force gifts that Luke doesn't. Once again, Luke is diminished.

In TJK, it wasn't Luke who really solved the problem once again. It was Leia, who came up with the plan for the Killiks. Luke doesn't seem to be allowed to be resourceful anymore, as he was in the films. It's always someone else who has the ideas.

It's no accident that the climax of Return of the Jedi is Darth Vader's choice to turn against the evil emperor
and save the life of his son -- his choice to reject the dark side of the force. Everything came down to Darth Vader's
choice. He was the center of the film. It was HIS story."
Remember this observation was made before the prequels were ever started. Maybe a select few knew that the prequels were more than rumor, but even then people realized Star Wars was all about Vader!

Well, I don't know why some people are so fascinated with villains. I never found them all that appealing myself. But I disagree with the author on this one. While Vader ended up killing the Emperor, that never would have happened without Luke. And in the OT films, while Vader was the most prominent villain, he definitely wasn't the main character. The OT films were basically Luke's story. With the PT, Lucas diminished Luke and made the SW saga Vader's story.

J_K_DART:
By the way, follow this link for major spoilers for the whole trilogy, including one fascinating piece of information that Luke fans will love.

Thanks for the link, JK. I did see it once before. We can discuss those things here, I think, because it's fairly common knowledge. Besides, we have a spoiler tag on this thread which I think can probably be for anything! Besides, most of us here don't mind spoilers!

What do you think about what it says there, JK? What do you like best? Least? Personally, if the comment about Ben probably not having any siblings is true, that's the one I hate the most.

Have you started your new classes yet?

Jedi Ben:
Yep! That's me! Clumsy AND verbose. I'm definitely a motormouth with a keyboard!
* Only with a keyboard or are you a chatterbox in real life?

I'm actually more quiet in real life. I was very shy as a child and teenager, but am less so now.

* I think they mistakenly thought everything had to match up to the Jedi as depicted in the PT or the fans would cry foul, which does have some truth to it, but given they had an easy counter: The Empire destroyed the old Jedi therefore the change, they should have resisted the temptation.

I'm one who preferred NOT having everything match up to the PT. I liked the way Luke was shaping the Jedi Order prior to the PT, so I agree that they should have resisted the temptation. Since they started to try to match things up, Luke has looked dumber and dumber.

Except for Mon Mothma though, everyone, including Luke, thought he was

 

Hiya'll.

SKYDANCER!! So nice to see the thread orginator!!

"Why? Because being GOOD is not considered interesting, not seductive enough, and doesn't stand out compared to being EVIL. As Luke is not evil, he is made to be weak. By the way, I've heard the arguments that he is after all a human and thus, weak. Oh! gobbledygook! There must be a way that a writer can go beyond his/her imagination and write about a good leader, Jedi or otherwise, having as much excitement as the bad guy without using a "weakness". I'm sure it could be done. It is not easy but where's the excitement if it's easy, right?"

This seems strange to me, as the struggle to do, to remain or to redeem someone for good are the stuff of epic drama, imo. (Can you tell I like "Empire" best?) It takes a lot of courage to stand up to temptation to do evil. If the story is well done, then someone might be inspired to get involved. Villains only interest me as to how did they get so messed up and how do the "good" people overcome the villain?

Child of Winds: "I'm afraid Del Rey, LFL, and most fans think that Leia is the only Skywalker politician, so I don't think you'll see much more. ...Although....there are a few hints about The Swarm War that may prove me wrong."

Hmmm. I don't think Jedi should be banned from politics, but Jedi control over the government is worrisome. Smacks of Palps. What effective checks and balances can the people levy on a government controlled by individuals with extraordinary powers?


Jedi Ben: "* I think they mistakenly thought everything had to match up to the Jedi as depicted in the PT or the fans would cry foul, which does have some truth to it, but given they had an easy counter: The Empire destroyed the old Jedi therefore the change, they should have resisted the temptation."

Agreed! They had to hit the reset button following the Jedi Purge and the Galactic Civil War.

Dart: Thanks for the link!

 

Hello everybody & hello Skydancer, i'm sure your glad that your thread is alive and still kicking much like Luke Skywalker. Now Child all we need is Charlemagne & Lijot and then we have a party.

it has only been 2 days of college but it seems to me as a very large high school, with students from everywhere. there are some friendly and there are some jerks. but i'm glad i'm commuting to college, i can't imagine living in a dorm.(not my thing) though with gas prices going over $3, it might not even worth to be driving if prices go up to $5.

Now all we have to do is wait for September 27 to get TUQ.

P.S. one more thing keep your prayers for the survivors in Louisiana.

JediBen

Not a bad summary, but you don't have a prat forever yelling 'the mission's over!', just monster cut-scenes.

LOL!! no you have to withstand cutscenes that can take over half an hour or longer to explain what you need to do. and also what is the deal with the camera ? the beef i have with splintercell is aiming with a scope, it should be more steady!! i mean what is sam fisher doing while sniping, dancing ?

* Shouldn't that have been painted red, then?

like Booster's ? your shcwartz is as big as mine young skywalker!!!

JK dart

what were you refering to in that spoiler you posted ?


ChildofWinds

May the Force Be with you on your first day of college, MS!

thanks Child, i had fun with my 1st course. the professor for intro to computer graphics was very nice, so i think i'll have some fun.

It's REALLY SAD! More than half of Louisiana is under water!

It is! the people had to leave their belongings and head to the astro dome, there are still people stuck there on top of roofs and looting is going on. it's really terrible what the people are going through. and whose knows how many lives were lost ? I hope the government sends more help ASAP.

They're really a pretty good group. There are two that are EXTREMELY hyperactive though. They have the attention span of knats! It will definitely be a challenge to teach them to read!

Lol!! Imagine if you had to put them to sleep during Nap Time!! well in 1st grade i had a ball reading the Berstein Bears, Curious Gerge, and Clifford. I'm sure you can handle them, just read them the Solo Twins favorite book, The Little Lost Bantha.

We don't get many. They clean the roads really well and quickly around here. I like snow though as long as I don't have to drive in a blizzard. I think it's cozy to sit by the fireplace and read a good book with snow falling outside.

Last year I had to drive through black ice and icy roads just to get to work and school. the worst was when i was making a 15mph turn to my high school and my car slid on the ice making a 180 degree turn. that's why when i moved it'll be someplace with hot weather all year long.

. At one time, I also expected to find out that Obi-wan was Luke's grandfather. I wasn't expecting midichlorians or a virgin birth or Anakin as "the Chosen One". Lots of things.

well at the time i had no idea to expect anything but the droids, yoda, anakin, and obi-wan in the prequels. but at the time there were the rumors of the sequels coming out after the PT, so I was really focusing on that.

I'm not even sure Luke ever gave himself the title. They just seemed to start calling him that. In fact, I think it was that author of the dreaded DE that used it first.

well in Jedi Search he felt he was ready to give himself the rank of Jedi Master, since of all of his experiences and I felt he was ready too.

Yes, spectacular, powerful, and NOT dark!

exactly!!

Maybe this time she won't be speaking from "a certain point of view".

LOL!! yeah though luke was in charcater, can't wait to read the rest of TD trilogy.

LOL! I love some of your lines, MS. They give me a good chuckle.

thanks, i get all material from watching too much tv.

Well, except in TJK

 

And if you have any questions about my trip (actually it was a pilgramage) PLEASE ASK.

Welcome back! Since I've never been to Europe, I'd love to hear any details you'd like to share about the countries you went to and it's people.

Again - WOW!! Super WOW!! It's nice to know that Luke Skywalker ** my favorite hero ** has great staying power. Maybe I'm wrong but this thread that I started in anger (see the ALL CAPS TITLE) ...maybe, just maybe, has a hand in correcting and spawning this whole new series on the JEDI MASTER.

From one legendary thread maker to another, I send greetings! I was the creator of the long Anakin Solo thread, but since that thead has fallen I've tried doing my rather small part in supporting your wonderful thread. It's funny how you described making the thread out of anger and you never guessed it would become so popular. It was the exact same thing when I made the Anakin Solo thread. I even quit reading EU books for about six months after Star by Star. The hype about AOTC at the time is what got me started reading eu again. I hope you'll participate more often.

I think they mistakenly thought everything had to match up to the Jedi as depicted in the PT or the fans would cry foul, which does have some truth to it, but given they had an easy counter: The Empire destroyed the old Jedi therefore the change, they should have resisted the temptation

Couldn't agree more. I think one of the X-Wing books showed this in a way when Corran learned about his grandfather.

 

Skydancer,

* Nice to see you here, have a good trip?

Again - WOW!! Super WOW!! It's nice to know that Luke Skywalker ** my favorite hero ** has great staying power. Maybe I'm wrong but this thread that I started in anger (see the ALL CAPS TITLE) ...maybe, just maybe, has a hand in correcting and spawning this whole new series on the JEDI MASTER.

* We can but hope.

I would like to comment on MariahJade about the other Son of Skywalker - you know, the one with a difficulty in breathing who's renamed Darth V... I've finally realised something about the "bad guys". They are soooo... fascinating, so exquisitely exciting both in writing and in movies that it is hard not to have that love/hate relationship with them. Thus, his popularity over his son.

* The problem I have with Vader is that it seems to have gone beyond Vader as excellent villain, with interesting motives and character, to Vader as role model almost!

Then there's the question of whether they are really evil or are they evil because that is the only way they can gain something good - like peace or equality for all? In D. V.'s case, that would be creating peace or his version of peace without going through the arduous and sometimes pointless process of getting consensus from the majority in the Senate. Then, there would be peace and of course, a leadership of one!

* Peace at the point of a gun in effect!

But nothing happens like that in the real world. Humans and I would imagine, aliens too, don't like to be told what they should and shouldn't do. There will always be arguments and debates in order to change anything. As a matter of fact, that is exactly what all of us are doing with this thread - fighting to save our esteemed character from being thrown out, pushed back, considered old and ancient, forced to delve in the darkside and every other imaginable weaknesses. Why? Because being GOOD is not considered interesting, not seductive enough, and doesn't stand out compared to being EVIL. As Luke is not evil, he is made to be weak. By the way, I've heard the arguments that he is after all a human and thus, weak. Oh! gobbledygook! There must be a way that a writer can go beyond his/her imagination and write about a good leader, Jedi or otherwise, having as much excitement as the bad guy without using a "weakness". I'm sure it could be done. It is not easy but where's the excitement if it's easy, right?

* The difficulty is it takes a lot of skill to pull it off and NJO had neither the skill nor the ideas to do so. Namely the notion: How to defeat an enemy without becoming it when that enemy surpasses everything in your experience where viciousness is concerned? NJO ducked the issue and opted for an empty, harsh and foolish idealism, advocated by Jacen, that ignored the Vong's casual killing of trillions. How morality can survive in the inferno of war is a question with much depth to it, but it requires very careful handling to give a positive answer that avoids falling into the flaw of glorifying war.

COW,

I'm actually more quiet in real life. I was very shy as a child and teenager, but am less so now.

* I'm not exactly exactly extrovert, but I suspect that, give us the right subject and...

I'm one who preferred NOT having everything match up to the PT. I liked the way Luke was shaping the Jedi Order prior to the PT, so I agree that they should have resisted the temptation. Since they started to try to match things up, Luke has looked dumber and dumber.

* Agreed, it hasn't worked for me at all.

It was when they were sitting in on one of those meetings fairly early in Rebel Dream, I think. I remember being rather annoyed about that because I thought Luke was pretty politically astute in VP and again in the Dark Tide duology. And, as you said, Mon Mothma certainly felt he could handle politics, so it was disappointing to have MARA of all people, cluing poor Luke in.

* Ah, sorry, I know the bit you refer to, I meant I just could never see the rationale behind it.

I'm afraid Del Rey, LFL, and most fans

 

* The problem I have with Vader is that it seems to have gone beyond Vader as excellent villain, with interesting motives and character, to Vader as role model almost!

Pathetic but true. This gave me a funny idea for a story.

There's a teacher who's scolding her student for punching a kid from the neighboring class for sticking his tongue at him.

Teacher: Jimmy! That was a very bad thing you did!
Jimmy: I'm sorry, but he stuck his tongue out at me!
Teacher: Now Jimmy, that's no way to handle a situation like that. That's not how Anakin Skywalker would behave is it?
Jimmy thinking about it: No I guess not.
Teacher: Well then. Next time you run into a situation like that you need to ask yourself how Anakin Skywalker would act.
Jimmy: But I'm not Anakin Skywalker!
Teacher: Well you can be if you just try.
Jimmy: Oh, alright.
Teacher: Good boy. Now go along and play.

After recess the children return to the teacher's class, but the teacher notices Jimmy is missing. She steps outside the class to see if she can see him returning. Suddenly Jimmy emerges from the neighboring class dusting himself off.

Teacher: Jimmy! Why are you late?
Jimmy: I was trying to be more like Anakin Skywalker.
Teacher: Anakin Skywalker would never be late! Now get in class.
Jimmy: Oh, alright.

The teacher out of curiousity goes to the neighboring class to talk to the teacher and find out what Jimmy was doing in there. She walks up to the door and opens it.

To her horror she sees all the students and even the teacher sprawled on the floor nursing bloody noses and black eyes.

 

kddidit;
This seems strange to me, as the struggle to do, to remain or to redeem someone for good are the stuff of epic drama, imo.It takes a lot of courage to stand up to temptation to do evil. If the story is well done, then someone might be inspired to get involved.

I agree with you!

Hmmm. I don't think Jedi should be banned from politics, but Jedi control over the government is worrisome. Smacks of Palps. What effective checks and balances can the people levy on a government controlled by individuals with extraordinary powers?

It is problematic. It would definitely take a very special Jedi to be a government leader. No doubt about it! I don't think we're ever going to see Luke as head of the government, though I wouldn't be surprised if Leia were recycled back into Chief of State. I'm going to be very interested though in just exactly what and how Luke does to "take charge" and make the weapons of everyone on both sides inoperable in order to prevent a war. Will he be considered a traitor even if he's successful in preventing bloodshed because he took it into his own hands to do this?

MasterSkywalker86;
Now Child all we need is Charlemagne & Lijot and then we have a party.

It would be nice to see C and Lijot and tdk and a few others back here!

Now all we have to do is wait for September 27 to get TUQ.

Just a few more weeks!

P.S. one more thing keep your prayers for the survivors in Louisiana.

Very definitely! And for Alabama and Mississippi too.

thanks Child, i had fun with my 1st course. the professor for intro to computer graphics was very nice, so i think i'll have some fun.

Good! I hope you'll continue to enjoy it!

Lol!! Imagine if you had to put them to sleep during Nap Time!!

Fortunately, we don't have nap time in first grade!

well in 1st grade i had a ball reading the Berstein Bears, Curious Gerge, and Clifford. I'm sure you can handle them, just read them the Solo Twins favorite book, The Little Lost Bantha.

LOL!

Last year I had to drive through black ice and icy roads just to get to work and school. the worst was when i was making a 15mph turn to my high school and my car slid on the ice making a 180 degree turn. that's why when i moved it'll be someplace with hot weather all year long.

Black ice is definitely the WORST! Some years ago, as I backed my car down the hilly driveway on black ice, I ended up facing forward toward the street. (doing the 180 you did). It was VERY frightening! I would have just stayed home and not even tried to go to work, except I had no idea how to get back up the hill! It was a miracle that I didn't get into an accident that day.

Another time, I was on the freeway when freezing rain struck suddenly and with a vengeance. Cars were sliding sideways toward the center guardrail. It was like a demolition derby. So many cars bumped into one another. Once again, my guardian angel was with me because I somehow managed to avoid hitting anyone or being hit by anyone. Many others weren't so lucky.

well i do feel that more people tend to like the bad guys more, because the bad guys to them are something that they can't become in real life.( thank god)

I'm one who DOESN'T like the bad guys more!

I'll answer the rest of the messages tomorrow.

 

Nice one SP!

Now to good news!

Got my copy of Empire 33 today...All that can be said is: Get this, either as comic or as a collection, whichever is cheaper, but get it as it's really kicked into high gear.

What's going on? Luke and the Jabiim rebels have been betrayed and captured, Leia is escaping via speeder bike and the comic opens with the news Vader is en route to Jabiim. The betrayer is brought to Vader, claiming to know where and how the Rebel fleet is hiding. He then somewhat unwisely demands Vader grants Jabiim independence, as that was the deal! Vader orders Skywalker brought up from the surface and then orders the Star Destroyers to destroy the planet by scorching the surface to the point of making it lifeless. We get a great bit of dialogue:

Betrayer: But you'll kill everyone on the surface...
Vader: Perhaps you would like to join them?

To be continued....

Looking pretty grim, the Rebs are on Jabiim with a few X-Wings against 3 Star Destroyers! But damn, if it isn't SW as it ought to be. I know this story continues over the next 6 issues in effect, with both plots of Jabiim and Vader's search being covered so there'll be no rushed resolution. Luke fans of female persuasion are once again to purchase more than 1 copy in case of drooling damage! Looks like we're going to get a 11-issue epic that'll fit in very neatly between the end of Classic Star Wars and ESB.

JB

 

Sith-Pirate:
From one legendary thread maker to another, I send greetings! I was the creator of the long Anakin Solo thread,

I didn't know that, SP. You ARE a legendary thread maker!

It really was sad that the best character of the younger generation was killed off. I just am NOT interested in any of the others.

but since that thead has fallen I've tried doing my rather small part in supporting your wonderful thread.

I know that *I'm* glad that you're supporting the SOS thread. I'm sure Skydancer is too!

It's funny how you described making the thread out of anger and you never guessed it would become so popular. It was the exact same thing when I made the Anakin Solo thread. I even quit reading EU books for about six months after Star by Star.

I think Skydancer totally stopped reading the NJO books after reading only PART of SbS. Am I right, SkyD?

I think one of the X-Wing books showed this in a way when Corran learned about his grandfather.

Speaking of Corran, I wonder how they're going to reconcile his father and grandfather's ages??? Corran is supposed to be Luke's age. Yet didn't the grandfather have a young son a few years before Luke and Leia were born? The problem is, that would have been Corran's father, and he would have had to father Corran at about age 6 or 7 for that to work. Does anyone know how that's being retconned?

Jedi Ben;
* The problem I have with Vader is that it seems to have gone beyond Vader as excellent villain, with interesting motives and character, to Vader as role model almost!

As weird and disturbing as that sounds, I think you're actually right! How can ANYONE consider Vader to be a role model????

And for me, at least, the PT actually ruined Vader as a rather elegant, mysterious, nasty, guy-you-love-to-hate villain. Now I can't help think of the pathetic, stupid, whiney, selfish, obsessive Anakin.

* Peace at the point of a gun in effect!

Yes, exactly!

* The difficulty is it takes a lot of skill to pull it off and NJO had neither the skill nor the ideas to do so. Namely the notion: How to defeat an enemy without becoming it when that enemy surpasses everything in your experience where viciousness is concerned? NJO ducked the issue and opted for an empty, harsh and foolish idealism, advocated by Jacen, that ignored the Vong's casual killing of trillions. How morality can survive in the inferno of war is a question with much depth to it, but it requires very careful handling to give a positive answer that avoids falling into the flaw of glorifying war.


Very well said, JB! That could actually have been a very interesting, compelling, spell-binding story. But Del Rey opted for a stupid ending with the help of the Deus ex Machina Zonama Sekot.

* I'm not exactly exactly extrovert, but I suspect that, give us the right subject and...

And we can passionately go at it! Pretty much like you and I do with DE!

* Ah, sorry, I know the bit you refer to, I meant I just could never see the rationale behind it.

I couldn't either. Obviously Allston hadn't read VP or the Stackpole duology OR the Corellian Trilogy, and the editorial staff and "continuity experts" (and I use that term VERY loosely!) at Del Rey forgot that Luke is actually quite a perceptive guy who played the politicians like a violin. He could really be an astute politician. But now, since those Stackpole books, Luke is thought of as a political idiot.

* Yeah, plus apparently what Luke did with the Senators was apparently wrong, even though they were entirely free to act as they liked, with the consequences that could befall them being of their own making.

What do you mean, JB? What did Luke do with the Senators? If you're talking about the election, wasn't it Han and Lando that did that?

Sith-Pirate:
This gave me a funny idea for a story.
There's a teacher who's scolding her student for punching a kid from the neighboring class for sticking his tongue at

 

But none of them will harm or die . . . They all live. How does that make for suspenseful and dramatic reading 4 you, Jedi Ben?

 

Sith Pirate

From one legendary thread maker to another, I send greetings! I was the creator of the long Anakin Solo thread, but since that thead has fallen

well i think you did mention a bit of it before, but you make good disscussions and also you are very perceptive, so naturally i would think you can make a great topic.

Well then. Next time you run into a situation like that you need to ask yourself how Anakin Skywalker would act.

LOL!! that teacher must be Star Wars Cultist.

To her horror she sees all the students and even the teacher sprawled on the floor nursing bloody noses and black eyes.

well at least he didn't kill the Younglings, this time.

JediBen

This is somewhat standard on sniper rifles it seems, apparently it is to simulate the fact that in reality the rifle grip would not be perfectly steady.

well i can understand not being fully steady while moving and running around, but when you are crouch and not MOVING!!! you're aim shold be more steady if not perfectly focused like Brother In Arms. though in some games i do like reality but sometimes like things to be extreme like Halo 2, good SW games, and X-men Legends.


I know this story continues over the next 6 issues in effect, with both plots of Jabiim and Vader's search being covered so there'll be no rushed resolution. Luke fans of female persuasion are once again to purchase more than 1 copy in case of drooling damage! Looks like we're going to get a 11-issue epic that'll fit in very neatly between the end of Classic Star Wars and ESB.

thanks for the info, but I really don't know the plot too much, can you give me a synopis please ? Anywho besides this and TJK, what else have you been reading in EU ?... have you ever read SW Tales ?

Who's to say he hasn't already? He defeated Palpatine by drawing on the Force, as he did Exar Kun.

Jb luke had help from his students and Exar Kun's Master I believe and also Luke beat the Emperor reborn twice ? is that including the final duel and luke turning the emperor's force storm against himself ? or something in DE 2 or Empire's End ?

ChildofWinds

It would be nice to see C and Lijot and tdk and a few others back here!

The more Luke fans the better.

Just a few more weeks!

yeah the suspense is killing me!

Very definitely! And for Alabama and Mississippi too.

yeah very true, this storm really shows how powerless we really are and how priceless the gift of life is. I just hope all the survivors get help and relief.

Good! I hope you'll continue to enjoy it!

thanks, my english professor didn't even show up the first day, so it seems college is a lot more flexible than highschool.

Black ice is definitely the WORST! Some years ago, as I backed my car down the hilly driveway on black ice, I ended up facing forward toward the street. (doing the 180 you did).

That is very scary, I'm glad that you and i didn't hit anybody or vice versa, but that was my first year driving thru the winter in NJ with my 1993 Ford Tempo, I hope this year will be more pleasant with my ford escort. you also be careful too.

Another time, I was on the freeway when freezing rain struck suddenly and with a vengeance. Cars were sliding sideways toward the center guardrail. It was like a demolition derby.

yeah you were in God's hands, though that must have been a scary sight. I'm glad you made it, too bad for the rest. it shows we're really are helpless in dealing with mother nature.

I'm one who DOESN'T like the bad guys more!

well i don't care for bad guys, unless they were once good then bad and then ultimately good.(anakin, Apostle Paul) I like to think that anyone can have a redemption, but again that is just me. anti heroes get on my nerves since they can be too dark at times while acting out justice(Spawn, The Punisher, Dark Kyp), Heroes are defintely my style(Luke, X-men(Gambit), Link

 

COW,

As weird and disturbing as that sounds, I think you're actually right! How can ANYONE consider Vader to be a role model????

* Given the fan following he has acquired, it seems the answer is: Easily.

And for me, at least, the PT actually ruined Vader as a rather elegant, mysterious, nasty, guy-you-love-to-hate villain. Now I can't help think of the pathetic, stupid, whiney, selfish, obsessive Anakin.

* Hence nominations for greatest SF villain on an SFX poll years ago read: Darth Vader, not that Anakin Skywalker imposter!

Very well said, JB! That could actually have been a very interesting, compelling, spell-binding story. But Del Rey opted for a stupid ending with the help of the Deus ex Machina Zonama Sekot.

* This is what I'm getting at when I say NJO had a lot of potential but blew it!

What do you mean, JB? What did Luke do with the Senators? If you're talking about the election, wasn't it Han and Lando that did that?

* But at Luke's request, however, without all the Senators engaging in immoral actions there would be nothing to threaten them with, so the situation was of the Senators own making.

That's good news???? JB, are you sure you care about Luke???! And wasn't Luke captured once already in this series?

* Luke was captured by the Jabiim rebels who were not exactly ecstatic to see him, now they are all prisoners of the Empire.

That part sounds good.

* It is.

WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT??????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!! Six more issues????? Wasn't this supposed to be a five part story that was interrupted with another comic in-between ????

* Cow, Cow, Cow, don't have a cow woman! Go away, get a cup of coffee, relax, sit down...

* In The Shadows Of Their Fathers is a 5-part arc that has been split in two with a linking story that shows how Vader gets involved with Jabiim again. The point of the story is to deal with Anakin Skywalker's betrayal of Jabiim and to show what happened afterwards and have Luke face the consequences of his father's acts. This will not be the end of the story of Jabiim or of Vader's search. We know Vader gets the info he needs as Empire 35 is focused on his usage of it. There is no way to tie up the Rebellion's involvement with Jabiim in 1 issue so in all likelihood the Imperials get defeated, Luke is accepted and the arc concludes, doing what it set out to. However, a couple of logical Q's would be:

* What does Vader do with the info he gets? This is covered in Empire 35.
* What happens to the Jabiim rebels? Empire 36-40 deals with Jabiim formally joining the Rebellion.

* So there is a logical linkage between 5 separate stories that can be linked up to form an epic Classic era tale!

This is NOT good news! I wanted this story to come to resolution! It would have been okay for a new one to start, but I don't want to have to pay for SIX MORE issues!!!!!!!!!

* This particular arc will resolve the issue it exists to do so, but can't do the larger issues that arise as a result.

That's another very EXPENSIVE story since postage costs more than the comic book! I may not get to read the ending after all. These comic books aren't worth the huge cost.

* Then wait for the collection, there'll definitely be one and you can get it from Amazon, it looks like there'll be 2 volumes as all the stories will equal about 11 issues so that'll be 5-6 per collection.

Not good news, JB!

* Are you kidding? We're getting one of the best Classic era stories going, it isn't being rushed, the art and characerisation is damn good and you get a great looking Luke and you're not happy?! Vader's search for the Rebel fleet looks to continue into the new Rebellion comic too, so this saga may well continue. As it stands, Empire/Rebellion is the only classic stuff coming out save for Allegiance, compared to where DN is taking the post-NJO EU, it's great. At a time when stories are compressed into 6 issues and there is little ambition, it's great to see a Classic epic to rival the Repub

 

Fair enough. I felt that way with the Wraith Squadron Trilogy; it was the journey to Zsinj, not the ending. But I don't understand what you meant by Cloak of Deception.

 

Oh, I just found it funny that you're saying that it's a mystery as to how the Empire arc can be suspenseful and dramatic without any characters getting injured or killed, yet you love a Prequel book that is similarly restricted.

JB

 

Jedi Ben


Oh yeah, do you know the story behind the MGS4 trailer? i.e. the background for the characters as if you do, it makes the trailer far more amusing.

well like i said i have a cousin who is a major fan of the series, so i have played the games a bit. solid snake is the hero, while Rayden in MGS2 took the center role which irritated many fans(my cousin included), my favorite scene was when snake was hiding behind a wall and it just collapses and when he donned the sam fisher goggles.

All right: In the Clone Wars the planet of Jabiim was a hard fought major battle which resolved when Anakin Skywalker decided to pull the Republic out,

why did anakin pulled out ? probably hints of Grievous's whereabouts ?

the Rebellion decides to try to link up to the Jabiim rebels and they send Luke Skywalker, Leia and a few others, unaware that the name Skywalker is somewhat infamous on Jabiim. The story starts in Empire 29.

yeah i guess the natives weren't too friendly with luke. sounds like an intresting story, do they have a one-shot ? thanks for the info.

Re: Tales, got the lot, some pretty good stories in there. I'm a Clone Wars addict and am intrigued by upcoming post-ROTS stuff as the Empire's ascendency is now the focus.

then you would have a ball with the upcoming star wars tv shows.

Luke who guides Jacen in a lightsaber duel against Sith Monsters and via Jacen gives his students the guidance they need to work out how to defeat Kun.

so luke defeats Exar from a certain point of view.