SOS - SON OF SKYWALKER : YOU (THE FANS) ARE MY ONLY HOPE!! SAVE ME... (Spoilers)

Ok, I'm gonna try this one more time. We aren't talking about Leai taking death star plans or Padme ruling a nation, and I had no problems with either of those situations. I'm not a big history buff, but I believe children age 14 and younger or a bit older have inherited their respective thrones, and since this is a long time ago in a GFFA, thats all good. Leai clearly wasn't expecting to be "pulled over" in her death star plans mission, and told Vader as much. But besides, how can anyone compare this to the Voxyn mission? A plan which starts in getting captured by a race of beings who embrace death and pain and are like, psychos? We're not talking about eagle scouts being made corporals. We aren't talking about a certain nations or planets government that believes in a dictatorship and passes the throne over through bloodlines. Sure that happens. But we are talking about what these characters beliefs were, what this situation was, and why I feel this situation was horribly portrayed. We're talking about this mission.

Someone brought up the point that they wanted to send the kids because the Vong would be more suspicious about adults or whatever. Hmmm....thats a good point. Did Luke think that one up? Cause the Vong would probably be thinking these kids were less of a threat, less experienced, more prone to getting captured etc. Ha, those dumb Vong were probably also thinking no way would it be a plan to get captured and overthrow their ship, because why would these youngsters be trusted with such a dangerous mission? So, while Luke and others were clearly thinking up this logical point of view that most certainly the Vong would have (even though their psychos), why weren't they themselves thinking about this logical point of view? Were they thinking "maybe the point of view we are giving the vong has a point?" Jeez. As a reader, I shouldn't be able to pick out several things before a mission starts that could and should go desperately wrong, that end up happening no less, that Luke, or anyone for that matter, shouldn't be able to see himself/herself. But Luke was in charge, and like Han said in the book: "What are you waiting for, Luke? Tell him why this isn't going to work."

I had no problem with Kaardes portrayal in conquest. He was in a desperate situation and was trying to save kids and was doing all he could. I had a problem with Luke, which is what this threads about after all. The Luke who was so sure those kids would be all right, because the Vong would have to send lots of vong to kill them. Ok Luke, good thinking, would've made me feel all warm and toasty too, just send Kaarde. Not only that, but Luke doesn't send Jaina and Jacen after the Errant Venture until he feels Ikrits dead and knows Anakins gone there. Now its serious, huh Luke? Now ya got a family member in danger and a friend dead, not just an academy and kids at stake. Well thank the lord Ikrit died and Anakin disobeyed NJO's incompetent Luke, because if the Errant Venture hadn't gotten there they all would've died. And all Lukes inaction cost them was half of Kaardes people dead, Ikrit, and a 14 year old girl being tortured.

I wanted to read about the young jedi as well as the old. I'm not saying the young people shouldn't be in the books or handed certain responsibilities or be involved in battles. I am saying they are making Luke look AWFUL. They have at least twice now thrust the young jedi into the spotlight by making Luke look awful. They're not just putting him into a Yoda like position, they are making him look extremely incompetent to further their storyline.

 

Jade's Fire:

I am sorry you can't understand our viewpoint about Luke's character. Is it because you are biased against the older characters? Or are you biased against older people in general?

You jump all over me for critizing you and you buddies then you turn right around and flame another forum member, -vergere-, who happens to be an NJO fan. Forgive me, but that seems just a little hypocritical to me.

Jade's Fire:

Those that don't like the NJO are more likely to not participate in the Lit forum.

If that's the case then I have one small question, what the hell are you, Dewlanna, ChildOfWinds, Skydancer, and others doing here?

By the Way, Jade's Fire, I guess you can't recogonize extreme anger when you see it. My first post in this thread and my post that you refer to from the Tired of the NJO thread express my frustration over having to continuously read your comrades words of hatred towards books most of us love. They also deal with having to read words of hatred and outright flames made by some of your buddies against the fans of the NJO. Don't make me point out examples. They will only prove that Anakin SkySolo was right when he called your club a bashers club.

And as far as what I said three months ago. Those words only apply when both sides of an opposing viewpoint are playing by the same rules. Clearly, you and your buddies think the rules do not apply to you. You wish to say whatever you want about the NJO and its fans and not expect rebuttals in return. Basically, You expect us to bend over and get humped in our a$$es. I can assure you that will not happen. I will continue to oppose you and your buddies as long as I am a member of this forum and I will not play by rules others are not playing by. If you attack me, expect to be attacked. It's the eye for an eye philosophy. I trust I've made myself clear.

to JediJSolo, Crow_T_Fett and ReaperFett, good posts. I agree with everything you all have said. I wouldn't worry about trying to convince Dewlanna of that though, She has clearly made up her mind as far as the NJO in general is concerned and the Prequel movies as well. I would suggest to all true Star Wars fans that they simply ignore her words.

 

Jades Fire--

Oh, frag the stupid punch and counterpunch. Let's just call it quits and refocus, shall we?

Now you claim:

Child of Winds can say exactly what she's saying: why couldn't Del Rey please adult fans as well as teenage fans. If most of her friends are adults and most of them aren't happy with the NJO then she's entirely justified in saying what she's saying. From her point of view, it is perfectly justified.

Not from where I sit. The personal experiences of Child of Winds and those making similar statements includes this forum, and from that experience, they ought to know that many adults are quite happy with the NJO. For whatever reason, that experience wasn't reflected in Child of Winds' remark.

In any event, my comments on her remark had to do with the factual inaccuracy of her claim. I took her words (and similar comments) at face value. I didn't try to read beyond what she and others have said and speculate on their personal experiences.

 

Raz927, I'll just re-post part of something I said a couple of pages back, that I think everyone kind of lost in the shuffle:

But rather than see this as a permanent weakening of his character, I prefer to look at it as simply an ongoing storyline. The galaxy is invaded by a brutal race bent on nothing less than total domination - every system, every planet, every species. Does Luke try to uphold to the ideals that have been the benchmarks of the Jedi for 1001 generations, or does he say "the ends justify the means" and do whatever is necessary to defeat the threat?

Making this an even more difficult decision for him is that he now has over 100 younger - or at least less experienced - Jedi looking to him for guidance. Any aggressive action on his part is going to be duplicated by the others, and while he may know where the line is that he can't cross, the less experienced Jedi won't, and risk falling to the dark side.

While I'd prefer to see Luke have already taken a more active role, I have still been able to find interest in this moral dilemma that has been presented to him. The authors have forced us, the readers, to try to decide what we think is more important: the noble traditions and standards of the Jedi Order, or survival. This has been played out wonderfully in the running argument between Luke and Kyp. While not many people like Kyp, it's sometimes hard to disagree with his point of view.

I said this once already, and I'll say it again: I still believe Luke is going to be the ultimate hero of this story. Why? Because none of the other Jedi have the "charisma" to fill that role, and if anyone other than a Jedi is the final savior, then we'll ALL have reason to complain!

Mecca-Don:

I wouldn't worry about trying to convince Dewlanna of that though, She has clearly made up her mind as far as the NJO ...

No, we're not going to convince any of the anti-NJO crowd. But the argument's fun anyway, ain't it?

 

We're talking about this mission.

We all know that, Raz927. We brought up all those other things because they support our arguments.

why weren't they themselves thinking about this logical point of view?

If I understand your question correctly, it is because as responsible adults their first concern is to protect the younger generation. This is usually instinctive. Sending the younger Jedi directly into harms way would never have been Luke?s, Leia?s or Han?s first thought, whether it was the most logical course of action or not.

The Luke who was so sure those kids would be all right, because the Vong would have to send lots of vong to kill them.

No. Luke didn?t think the kids would be alright. He tried very hard to get NR help, and Borsk denied that to him. Luke felt that he had more time. Anakin didn?t feel that way, because he had someone he loved on that planet, and he could sense her future. Considering this, it is only natural that Anakin was more in touch with the future of Yavin 4 than Luke was.

And all Lukes inaction cost them was half of Kaardes people dead, Ikrit, and a 14 year old girl being tortured.

How exactly could that have been prevented? Had Luke acted sooner, Karrde still wouldn?t have arrived in time to save anything more than he did. The Peace Brigade was there when Anakin arrived; I don?t think that Karrde could have gotten there any sooner than Anakin did.

I wanted to read about the young jedi as well as the old.

Wait a month. The next two books aren?t very likely to have Jacen or Jaina in them at all. That out to level the playing field a little bit.

They're not just putting him into a Yoda like position, they are making him look extremely incompetent to further their storyline.

That?s your personal opinion. I think that Luke has been looking better and better as the NJO goes along. But that?s just my personal opinion.

 

Crow T, I appreciate your rational and well thought out approach to offering a counter point to Lukes character. That said, I'll offer my take on what you've said:

Yes it would be interesting to see Luke develop from some sort of internal struggle in this storyline. I just don't see that as the reason he's been portrayed so poorly. I've given you my problems with Luke in sbs, and that could've been somewhat solved by Luke saying: "Anakin, I don't think this is that great an idea. I think Tahiri has been through too much already to go into a mission that involves getting captured again. I think Jacen could compromise the mission simply since his capture means so much to them. We can't be sure that this will even put an end to the Voxyn threat. And honestly, I'm not sure any of you are ready to deal with the kind of casualties this mission could entail. But I'm not gonna stand in your way." --something like that, anything that shows Luke has some insight. I think its really just a blatant disrespect on the part of the NJO and some of its authors towards Lukes character. Denning could have given me something to cheer about if Luke bursts in and saves his child from a kidnapping attempt, but instead he gives us the C-3po shoots the baby up with drugs and shoves him in a plastic bag ending. There have been multiple opportunities to make Luke look better, and on the occasions where I've felt he looked extremely bad, they could've found ways around that as well. He could've at least helped Anakin with more insight into the Vong. He could've at least SENT Anakin to Yavin to check up on the academy. So it's just my opinion that these storyline plotters see him as a hindrance in the story they want to tell, but keep him around to sell books, at least up to this point. I don't trust they will make Luke look better in upcoming books if they don't think they have been making him look bad thus far.

 

And honestly, I'm not sure any of you are ready to deal with the kind of casualties this mission could entail.

Rez927, the fact is that Luke didn?t think that, and he hasn?t thought anything like that since the beginning of the NJO. It would have been extremely out of character for him to have said something like that. It?s not disrespect; it?s being true to the character that has developed in the EU.

He could've at least SENT Anakin to Yavin to check up on the academy.

Luke had good reasons for not sending Anakin to Yavin 4. And the fact that Anakin went anyway demonstrated why Luke didn?t want him to go there. It was the political aspect of the whole thing. Luke felt sure that he had time. That?s not foolish; there simply wasn?t any evidence to prove him wrong.

 

Hiya JediJ. Yes I think we just have differing opinions as to how we are perceiving this story, and I respect your opinion.

As far as the examples that were offered to support the argument of "it was wise and reasonable to send them on the voxyn mission", I didn't think the examples were comparable to the mission we were talking about, and I offered my reasons why, again just a differing of opinion.

Luke didn't try to get Borsks help until he knew Ikrit was dead and Anakin went there. Maybe Anakin was more in touch with the future then Luke was, but Luke still knew the kids and the academy was a target, and the Luke I know would've taken immediate action, whether he had to drop everything and go himself, or send Jaina, Jacen, and Anakin, clearly not as dangerous a mission as he would agree to send them on a year later.

 

...that could've been somewhat solved by Luke saying: "Anakin, I don't think this is that great an idea. I think Tahiri has been through too much already to go into a mission that involves getting captured again. I think Jacen could compromise the mission simply since his capture means so much to them. We can't be sure that this will even put an end to the Voxyn threat. And honestly, I'm not sure any of you are ready to deal with the kind of casualties this mission could entail. But I'm not gonna stand in your way." --something like that, anything that shows Luke has some insight.

Raz927, I can't disagree with that, that would've made perfect sense for him to say, as long as he did it with Anakin in private, one-on-one, and not in front of all the Jedi who he would be commanding on the mission.

He could've at least SENT Anakin to Yavin to check up on the academy.

He could have, but Anakin taking off for Yavin reminds me very much of Luke rushing off to Cloud City in ESB. In both cases, they learned from the mistakes they made, and became more mature because of it. These two incidents were major factors in their characters maturing. Luke sending him wouldn't have caused Anakin to learn the same lesson.

 

Hiya JediJ. Of course Luke has thought about that with regards to Anakin in particular. He has thought about Anakin feeling responsible for Chewies death, and a logical viewpoint to take from that would be how Anakin would react if someone under his command would die. There were many obvious concerns Luke could have voiced about that mission, and all I'm saying is he should have said "something like that".

 

Crow I agree with you on both points, but I feel Luke should have been portrayed as showing much more concern and urgency for his academy and young students. I enjoyed reading about Anakin being on that mission by himself, and it was obviously the goal of the author to put him in that situation by himself, but again don't do it at the expense of Lukes character.

 

Raz927: Luke didn't try to get Borsks help until he knew Ikrit was dead and Anakin went there.

Not true.
Page 35 of Conquest (long before Ikrit died):
?So what do we do?? Jacen asked.

?I requested the New Republic send a ship to evacuate them, but they?re dragging their heels. They might continue to for weeks.?

?We can?t wait that long!? Jaina said.

?No,? Luke agreed. ?I?ve been trying to find Booster Terrik. I think the best thing for the moment would be to not only evacuate the academy but keep the kids on the move, in the Errant Venture. If we just move them to another planet, we don?t really solve the problem.?

?So they?re with Booster?? Anakin said.

?I can?t locate him, unfortunately. I?m still working on it.?

?Talon Karrde,? Mara said softly.

?Perfect,? Luke said. ?You know where to find him??

?What do you think?? Mara said, smirking.

Not only does this prove that Luke tried to get the NR?s help long before Ikrit?s death; it also proves that Luke was doing everything in his power to protect those kids with the least amount of risk to the people involved.


He has thought about Anakin feeling responsible for Chewies death

True, but he never thought that Anakin was dealing with that badly.

 

I stand corrected JediJ, I was remembering that he didn't go before Borsk in the book until Ikrit was dead and Anakin there. His solutions to the problem still weren't enough for me however, but maybe I'm just being a nit picker. "...they're dragging their heels. They might continue to for weeks," and in agreeing with Jaina that they can't wait that long so he's looking for Booster Terrik, but can't find him, I don't see his solution to the problem. "It's the best we can do for now" is his answer. Anakin disagrees, and from my perception, anakin is right. Luke is wrong, was wrong, and I just feel that the Luke I knew wouldn't have thought that "it was the best they could do." Go there and set up a stronger defense or send other jedi to take on that task.

 

I am sorry you can't understand our viewpoint about Luke's character. Is it because you are biased against the older characters? Or are you biased against older people in general?

You think that is a flame? He said much the same to me earlier when he insinuated we were saying that only an adult viewpoint is right and all the rest unacceptable.

If that's the case then I have one small question, what the hell are you, Dewlanna, ChildOfWinds, Skydancer, and others doing here?

Well, Skydancer wanted to start a thread to protest the treatment of Luke in the NJO. Kind of like CMinor did with the ?Han and Leia Romance? thread. Skydancer laid her/his reasoning why s/he's upset. Several of us have decided to join her/his protest. You don?t have a problem with that do you? Or is only a gushing ?NJO Rocks? attitude permissible for the Literature forum?

By the Way, Jade's Fire, I guess you can't recogonize extreme anger when you see it. My first post in this thread and my post that you refer to from the Tired of the NJO thread express my frustration over having to continuously read your comrades words of hatred towards books most of us love.

Oh, I continually see your angry, hate filled posts directed at me, anyone in the NJOCC or anyone else who might happen to not like the NJO. I guess I was under the mistaken impression that you wanted to see a more civil discussion and debate of the issues here in the Literature forum. I guess that?s not what you really meant since you continue to direct your ?extreme anger? towards all who might have an opposing viewpoint that doesn?t like the NJO.

I suggest you step back, breath into a paper bag, and figure out why you can?t seem to debate the issues in a calm and rational manner without resorting to name-calling and swearing. I?ve tired very hard to re-engage in some of the discussions here in the Literature forum over the past month or so, only to be met with continuing hostility and personal attacks from members of this forum.

They will only prove that Anakin SkySolo was right when he called your club a bashers club.

We are not a bashers club as you and SkySolo so malign us as. We praise when praise is called for. And if someone reads something and doesn?t like it, then they are free to say why too. Many if not most of the members of the NJOCC really liked Balance Point and found Hero?s Trial and Onslaught to be entertaining books. That?s hardly the description of a bashers club.

I trust I've made myself clear.

Oh, I hear you loud and clear. I guess I can expect to see nothing from you except your extreme hatred directed at us. I am disappointed that you?d rather engage in personal attacks and slanders rather than a debate of the issues.

=============

Skydancer, I?ve come up with a rallying cry.

No more Wimpy!Luke.

 

Hay, guys and gals. You might be more productive if you communicate your feelings to Del Rey directly. If you go digging around on Del Rey?s official sight you can do just that. Just go to the bottom of the page and look for a link that says ?WRITE TO US?; or if you have a good idea of specifically who you want to write to, you could go to ?EDITORS AND STAFF?. But if you do, I just ask that you be nice to these people. Despite what you might think, they do work very hard.

 

Mecca,

I strongly suggest you cool your jets. There is no need to be getting so bent out of shape. They're only words on a screen, man.

Vergere,

To several of us, Luke, Leia and Han are the heart of the post-ROTJ environment. And here I am defneding three characters who I don't even like very much. As most (if not all) of you know, my sympathies lie with the Empire. However, this does not mean that I cannot see that Luke, Han and Leia are magnificent foils for Thrawn, Daala and Pellaeon or a variety of greedy Imperial warlords.

And I see these characters having their craniums sucked out of their skulls. These bright people defeated Thrawn in a matter of months, kicked Daala's teeth in on multiple occasions and the weight of previous victories they had worked tirelessly to acheive convinced Pellaeon that it was time to cash in his chips.

As far as tactical ingenuity goes, the Vong cannot hold a candle up to Thrawn's genius. Vong tactics and strategy are not entirely complex, and they mainly acheive staggering victories due to their biotech goodies; not on the competence of field commanders.

So if the Vong are military imbesciles, why is it taking the NR so long to stop them? The main reason for this comes from the length of the storyarc which has been dragging this conflict out far too long.

JF is correct to state that the uberkinden began to become a menace in JE. I understand the reason why Anakin was at Centerpoint, but Jacen is wholly unnecessary as was Thracken Sal-Solo. This was a military operation--why were all these unsupervised civilians brought in on the project? Militaries tend to want to keep a civilian presence to an absolute minimum and they also like to have a chain-of-command firmly established, usually with a general or admiral at the top. The CoC at Centerpoint was totally butchered with two children firmly in control of a weapon of mass destruction. This would be tantamount to George W handing command of the Strategic Air Command to a fifteen-year-old and making the kid a full general or doing a similar action with our land-based ICBM force or Tridedent and MX missile force.

Things only went downhill from that fiasco, and its interesting that the rise of the uberkinden also coincides with a Luke decline. In JE, Luke did absolutely nothing. In VP, Jacen and Anakin were his apprentices, but now it appears that they had parted ways since. And Luke was doing absolutely nothing in JE; why couldn't he go with them to Centerpoint?

Now let us back up and ponder where Luke's sudden timidity in the face of adversity has come from? I see a great deal of this timidity as being by design, not out of any natural growth on Luke's part. Throughout his entire life, Luke has been a fighter, and for him to get all timid in the face of the Vong strikes me as being absurd. Especially when the Vong represent a far more evil force than the Empire ever represented. The Empire didn't want everyone to live in pain, the Empire did not sacrifice thousands upon thousands of people to supposed gods.

For Luke to suddenly temporize in dealing with the Vong makes no sense. Yes, Luke was active in VP and DT and also in BP, but after that he becomes a pathetic do-nothing. And this just happens to intersect with the meteoric rise of Jacen, Jaina and Anakin.

Luke killed millions of fellow humans during the long struggle with the Empire, without ever questioning what he was doing. He saw his cause as moral and just--probably because his mission was sanctioned by both his mentors. For Luke to be endlessly moralizing over the Vong invasion is rather absurd when one looks at his previous exploits.

The Luke Skywalker that Keyes wrote is a hermit, isolated from the world around him, while Jedi that he trained perish. He had turned into a cold, uncaring man overly concerned about the dark side and seeing that taking any offensive action against the Vong would lead to the dark side.

If agressive action is of the dark side, then Luke Skywal

 

Jade's Fire:
Skydancer, I?ve come up with a rallying cry:
No more Wimpy!Luke.

I can't speak for Skydancer, but *I* like it, Jade's Fire!

RAZ:
I don't see his solution to the problem. "It's the best we can do for now" is his answer. Anakin disagrees, and from my perception, anakin is right. Luke is wrong, was wrong, and I just feel that the Luke I knew wouldn't have thought that "it was the best they could do." Go there and set up a stronger defense or send other jedi to take on that task.

I agree RAZ! I doubt that the Luke I used to know would have waited until the situation became critical to begin with! He would have evacuated the children as soon as he even suspected that the Vong would be heading in that direction. Instead, Luke increased the danger himself by calling that Jedi meeting which left Yavin IV more vulnerable. With so few trained Jedi left on the planet, they couldn't maintain the illusion that was protecting the moon anymore.

AND, if the pre-NJO Luke WOULD have made that terrible blunder, he would have rectified the problem himself. HE would have gone out to rescue the Jedi children, and it wouldn't have mattered to him whether Borsk Fey'lya or the other senators liked it or not. Those kids were his responsibility, and the pre NJO Luke wouldn't have shirked his responsibilities.

The NJO Luke has been portrayed as brainless. He never seems to come up with any good ideas himself. Instead, as others have pointed out, the younger characters have made important discoveries, have come up with solutions to problems. I really can't think of one really good idea that was solely Luke's in the entire NJO.

Yet the Luke Skywalker of the films was a pretty resourceful guy. He came up with the plan to get the Princess out of the detention center. He found a way to get across the chasm on the first Death Star. He came up with the technique to use the tow cables on Hoth when the AT-ATs proved to be too strong for blasters, and he used a lightsaber and an explosive to single-handedly destroy an AT-AT when his speeder was shot down. Luke put his lightsaber into Artoo's dome and sent his droids to Jabba's palace as gifts, sort of Trojan Horse-style. (Beware Jedi Knights bearing gifts! <g>) He turned his father back to the Light when his mentors expected him to kill him. Luke always thought outside of the box. Luke has always been a resourceful character until the NJO. Now he's clueless. This is NOT the way I want to see Luke Skywalker portrayed!

Jedi Ben: That brings me to something you said a couple of days ago. (Sorry! I'm having a hard time keeping up with this thread! Real life tends to interfere with my hobbies!) You mentioned Jag Fel and that meeting he arranged with Luke. (Warning: very minor spoiler for DJ below.) You said:
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We know from VOTF that Baron Fel and Luke know and respect each other, Fel has instilled a sense of respect for the Jedi in his son. See his talk with Jaina in Ruin. Therefore he asked to see Luke and Luke allowed him to, Jagged Fel would not have the gall to tell Luke Skywalker to come and see him, the kid is incapable of doing so as he is very hot on protocol.Therefore Jag Fel's request to see Luke can be seen as a sign that Luke is returning to his proper status.

The thing that bothers me about this, Jedi Ben, is that Fel seems to be calling for the meeting with Luke because he (Jagged Fel) has an idea. Kyp even says, "If there's a Jedi offensive on the horizon, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's at the heart of it." Once again, it's one of the young people who has come up with a plan. Why couldn't LUKE be the one who came up with a plan which involved Fel and the Chiss? Why does it have to be a young person yet again? We all know why Jag Fel would approach Luke. He's looking for pilots, and who has the best available pilots in the Galaxy? Luke Skywalker, of course, with his Saber Squadron. I don't really see how Jag Fel's request to see Luke is a 'sign that Luke is returning to hi

 

If that's the case then I have one small question, what the hell are you, Dewlanna, ChildOfWinds, Skydancer, and others doing here?
I can't speak for the others, but I'm here to lend support to Skydancer and to let other people who are not happy with the NJO know that they are not alone.

AniSS is right that the NJO isn't a simple old people hate/ young people like situation. I know quite a few teens and young adults who feel pretty much the same way about the NJO as do I and many other "over 50" SW fans.

Just for the record, here is what I don't like about the NJO
**Note: what follows is pure opinion, not open to debate.**

I don't like the main story line of the NJO, I think the extra-galactic villains were an unnecessary addition to a Galaxy that already contained a threat from the Unknown Regions.

I find the uncharacteristic behavior of many players in the SWU troublesome.

I find the comic book science and the "Shazaman" solutions to military contests annoying.

I think the Solo kids are too young for the roles they are taking on, I think the average adult reader not familiar with the kids' growth in the JJK and YKJ finds this even more irritating.

I think the Vong are one-dimensional, cardboard cut-out, boogy-man villains; not at all a proper successor to Palpatine, Exur Kun, Prince Xixor or even Durga the Hutt..

I hate the excessively graphic violence. The movies were never like this, even the BFC wasn't so unremitting in its ?in your face' blood and gore.

I don't like the dark, horror story aspect of the NJO

I don't like the idea of YEARS of the same basic story line. Can you imagine 4 years of the BFC, or PoT, or Bounty Hunter Wars or...[insert name of least favorite Bantam book]?
This is how I feel about the l-o-n-g story arc. I could probably stand a trilogy of Vong stories, knowing that something different was coming next.
I've been hearing for the last 2 years. "Just wait, in the next book......." Well I'm waiting for Alston. If he can't write a couple NJO stories that will be at least as good as Balance Point, I may give up on Star Wars all together.


What I dislike the MOST bout the NJO, though, is the way it has taken family friendly, wholesome multi generational entertainment, and changed it into something I would not recommend to any child or teen that I cared about.
There is enough violence and horror in the world without shoving it in the face of Star Wars fans.
The Star Wars Saga is interesting and action-pack enough as it was, it doesn't need to lean on horror and violence to hold its audience.



As I said above, this is all personal opinion and not open for debate.
That's what I think.
You can think what you like.
But DON'T tell me I have no business thinking as I do.
DON'T tell me I shouldn't express this opinion where ever a cross-section of Star Wars fans are gathered.

 

But DON'T tell me I have no business thinking as I do.
DON'T tell me I shouldn't express this opinion where ever a cross-section of Star Wars fans are gathered.

I didn?t, nor have I ever done such a thing to any Star Wars fan! However, I do believe that it would be more productive for you and those like you, who don?t like the NJO, to express your opinion to Del Rey.

The Han and Leia fans did just that, and Del Rey started to change the way it dealt with Han and Leia. If you will notice, since Conquest Han and Leia have been treated much better then they had been before. Recovery was written to fill in some of the Han and Leia gaps in the story line, and they have plaid a major role in all of the books after Conquest.

If you will just start acting upon your opinions by writing to Del Rey and stop buying the books, DR will pay attention.

I would love to see a second set of books that fills in all the gaps in the story line. A set of books that answers a great deal of the questions that have been raised by this thread. But that will never happen unless you let DR know you are serious about your beliefs. The only way to do that is to tell DR how you feel, and to STOP BUYING THE BOOKS!

 

Dewlanna Solo, I actually agree with you about some of those things:

I hate the excessively graphic violence. The movies were never like this, even the BFC wasn't so unremitting in its ?in your face' blood and gore.

I don't like the dark, horror story aspect of the NJO

What I dislike the MOST bout the NJO, though, is the way it has taken family friendly, wholesome multi generational entertainment, and changed it into something I would not recommend to any child or teen that I cared about.

I enjoyed Vector Prime, but it took me a few books before I warmed up to the NJO again. I'm still not wild about the two "Agents of Chaos" books.

However, I feel that the SW books have always been a little more graphic than the movies, and from the beginning have been intended for a more mature audience. That's why the JJK and YJK series were created, to give younger kids something they could read, too.

I agree that the violence in the NJO occasionally goes too far. As an adult, this doesn't bother me all that much, but I agree, I wouldn't recommend this series to any young kids I know. But that doesn't stop me from enjoying it.

 

This thread is moving faster than I can read. I haven't read the other posts but I like to reply Crow's question:

Crow - And Skydancer, how long did that post take you?

Well - I have to skip doing my research and taking time off from my essay....I say about an hour. It's a nice way to procrastinate sometimes.

Keep the discussion going everyone and have a nice evening...oops it's morning already!

 

I believe that it would be more productive for you and those like you, who don?t like the NJO, to express your opinion to Del Rey.

The Han and Leia fans did just that, and Del Rey started to change the way it dealt with Han and Leia. If you will notice, since Conquest Han and Leia have been treated much better then they had been before. Recovery was written to fill in some of the Han and Leia gaps in the story line, and they have plaid a major role in all of the books after Conquest.

I have written letters to LFL and to Del Rey. The response is always something like "I'm sorry you didn't like Book A. I think you'll like Book B better." Or :'We are working to make Luke's character stronger." That was before CONQUEST, and I frankly haven't seen much of an improvement.

Some of us are still reading the books, but no longer purchasing them.

I think Skydancer is hoping that this thread will do what the "Stop abusing the Han/Leia Romance" thread did for Han and Leia, and frankly, I support her one hundred percent. I think all of us who like the character of Luke Skywalker would appreciate the support of other fans in this quest. I can't see how a better portrayal of the Skywalker character can be detrimental or bad for anyone.

 

Skydancer, I?ve come up with a rallying cry.

No more Wimpy!Luke.

And you complain the books have grammatical errors


What I dislike the MOST bout the NJO, though, is the way it has taken family friendly, wholesome multi generational entertainment, and changed it into something I would not recommend to any child or teen that I cared about.

Some wouldn't reccomend SW to kids. Liam Neeson didnt really like his kids seeing TPM. Your point?


Some of us are still reading the books, but no longer purchasing them

And some are just flicking through and using the same "funny" comments they were making before they read the book.


That was before CONQUEST, and I frankly haven't seen much of an improvement

I have


I think all of us who like the character of Luke Skywalker would appreciate the support of other fans in this quest

Assumption


I can't see how a better portrayal of the Skywalker character can be detrimental or bad for anyone

How about the fact that to do this would need more book space, taking away from other characters?

Or how about the fact that some feel that it is the logical way Luke would be after the Mara moaning farce in VOTF?

 

JediJSolo- I didn?t, nor have I ever done such a thing to any Star Wars fan! However, I do believe that it would be more productive for you and those like you, who don?t like the NJO, to express your opinion to Del Rey.

The Han and Leia fans did just that, and Del Rey started to change the way it dealt with Han and Leia. If you will notice, since Conquest Han and Leia have been treated much better then they had been before. Recovery was written to fill in some of the Han and Leia gaps in the story line, and they have plaid a major role in all of the books after Conquest.

If you will just start acting upon your opinions by writing to Del Rey and stop buying the books, DR will pay attention.

Most of us already have written to DR, some after every book. Most of the replies are practically form letters. "Sorry you're unhappy, hope you like the next one." As to the books, I have stopped buying them, though I do still read. I was able to borrow the recent one from a relative.

I am glad if the improvements to Han and Leia have been influenced by their thread, that is what I hope this thread will do for Luke.

Keeping up with this has been hard as another poster said this thread is moving fast. Back to Luke. I think any improvement in Luke will have to involve an improvment in the characterization of his wife, Mara as well. As their scene's are most often together, she has been in the thick of things when it comes to making him look bad. Instead of the smart and strong woman who learned how to love and grew into her roles as a Jedi, wife and Mother, she has regressed into a one dimensional harpy. She does not even have the Depth she showed in the Thrawn trilogy, where she had vulnerabilities, and questioned her own motives. Her scene's with Luke more often than not end up making him look dominated and incapable of thinking without her advice.
To me that is not Luke and that is not Mara.

 

She does not even have the Depth she showed in the Thrawn trilogy

Mouthy know it all who knew more than a Jedi Master?