Space and Cockpit Scenes (Comparing the OT and PT)

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by jacemathem, Jun 3, 2004.

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  1. jacemathem Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 5
    A major factor I've noticed that I felt was a part of what makes Star Wars what it is, and was lacking in the PT was the amount of space and cockpit scenes.

    The original trilogy...

    IV
    - The scenes aboard the Millenium Falcon where Obi-Wan is giving Luke his first lessons with a lightsaber and about the Force.
    - The escape from the Death Star, gun turrets on TIE fighters.
    - The long Battle of Yavin sequence.

    V
    - Most of Han and Leia's exposure in the movie was aboard the Millenium Falcon on their escape from the Empire.
    - Luke travelling to and from Dagobah while conversing with Artoo.
    - The escape from Bespin, TIE fighters blazing as Lando, Chewie and Leia pilot the Falcon.

    VI
    - The shuttle sequences delivering Vader and then the Emperor to the second Death Star.
    - The Rebel fleet sequence in preparation for the Battle of Endor
    - The very long Battle of Endor sequence.

    ...and the prequels

    I
    - The short blockade run from Naboo
    - A few flybys of the royal starship
    - The seemingly short assault on the control ship

    II
    - Obi-Wan on a approach of Kamino
    - The asteroid dogfight


    It seems that the prequels are devoid of some good quality time in space and in starships. That, for me, is one essential part that makes Star Wars what it is.

    Let the bashing commence.
  2. Theory55 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2004
    star 4
    I agree with you. I love the prequels but I've always wanted more space action. But believe me, Episode III... *Bites toungue*


    *cant wait for may 2005*
  3. BaronFel88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2004
    star 7
    What about Han and Padmé in the royal yacht (and the magic button she presses?) :p

    But you're right about the lack of space scenes. Then again, the Falcon was like a character in of herself, so of course she shoulg get some screen time.
  4. jacemathem Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 5
    Yeah, so basically my theory is that this apparant lack of space scenes is one of the reasons why people don't like the prequel trilogy, whether they're aware of it or not, in the overall saga.
  5. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    I
    -The blockade runner in the beginning
    - The short blockade run from Naboo
    -The escape from Naboo
    -The arrival at Imperial Center
    - A few flybys of the royal starship
    - The fighters attacking the control ship

    II
    - Obi-Wan on a approach of Kamino
    - The asteroid dogfight
    -Anakin and Padme flying to Geonosis
    -Obi-Wan flying over Geonosis
    -Count Dooku's ship flying away from Geonosis
    -Not to mention there is no cockpit but Anakin and Padme do fly to Naboo on the large ship.

    I don't see a lack of shots.
  6. jacemathem Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 5
    I
    - The blockade runner in the beginning (FLYBY)
    - The short blockade run from Naboo (MENTIONED)
    - The escape from Naboo (How is this different from your "Short blockade run from Naboo"?)
    - The arrival at Imperial Center (FLYBY)
    - A few flybys of the royal starship (FLYBY, duh!)
    - The fighters attacking the control ship (MENTIONED)

    II
    - Obi-Wan on a approach of Kamino (MENTIONED)
    - The asteroid dogfight (MENTIONED)
    - Anakin and Padme flying to Geonosis (FLYBY)
    - Obi-Wan flying over Geonosis (NOT IN SPACE)
    - Count Dooku's ship flying away from Geonosis (FLYBY)
    - Not to mention there is no cockpit but Anakin and Padme do fly to Naboo on the large ship. (There was really no feeling of "in space" at all)


    Flybys really don't count. They're only a few seconds long.

    I'm talking about the kind of space scenes like in Episode IV where we had Ben/Luke/Han/Chewie in the Falcon, outrunning the Star Destroyers out of Tatooine, Luke's training aboard during hyperspace, and again with Leia instead of Ben, plus the TIE fighter engagement. Then the very long Battle of Yavin sequence with the trench run.

    In Episode V, where Han, Leia, Chewie and Threepio were all in the cockpit for most of the movie, where we could see space outside, plus there were all the Star Destroyer scenes with Vader and his minions, plus all the maneuvers Han pulled with the Falcon using the back of the Star Destroyer bridge and the asteroid field.

    In Episode VI, we had the long space battle over Endor, with Lando having a decent amount of dialogue and shots from inside the cockpit with Nien Nunb by his side, plus all the cockpit shots of the various rebel pilots, plus Admiral Ackbar aboard his flaship, plus the entire flying into the superstructure sequence.

    In Episode I, we get a few short flybys: The Republic ship in the beginning and the royal starship to and from Tatooine and then Coruscant. The space battle over Naboo was short and ended rather abruptly with no real climax. Their were a few cockpit shots of the pilots.

    In Episode II, there were more flybys: The senatorial ship to Coruscant, Anakin and Padme to Tatooine then Geonosis, the Solar Sailor from Geonosis to Coruscant. Obi-Wan's approach to Kamino was very reminiscent of Luke's approach to Dagobah, with his discussions with the astromech during a cockpit scene. The asteroid dogfight was the only good space scene in the PT, being lengthy and full of good content.

    That's it. The OT was chock full of good space scenes, where the prequels only got one or two each with just a bunch of flybys elsewhere. The prequel trilogy is too much on the ground for my taste. We were practically in space the entire OT, and more if you count the Death Star I/II scenes as being in space.
  7. Phaeryx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2004
    OK, in Episode I the blockade runner in the beginning is not a flyby. It shows the pilots in the cockpit with the 2 Jedi behind them asking the pilot to inform them they wish to board.

    The arrival at the Imperial Center (Coruscant, you mean?) shows a view and conversation from inside the cockpit as Rick Ollie tells Anakin about the planet and destination.

    There is a couple scenes in the Imperial Cruiser as they approach Naboo near the end, so that is not a flyby either.

    In Episode II, Anakin and Padme flying to Geonosis is not a flyby, there is a short scene before they land. although admittedly they are not in space but already near the suface.

    Count Dooku fleeing shows the interior af the cockpit with him and his droid pilot, so again, not technically a flyby.

    These scenes are long enough to count if Luke's brief conversation with Artoo in the X-Wing on the way to Dagobah counts.

    Also, there were no viewports to indicate a feeling of being in space for the Obi-Wan training Luke scene aboard the Falcon, but it's obvious they're on a ship, just as it is obvious that Anakin and Padme are aboard the passenger ship to Naboo.

    You didn't mention the scenes aboard the Federation Starship in Episode I. I should also mention the other scenes aboard the Imperial Cruiser in Episode I like the Queen's audience chamber, twice, Padme's meeting Jar Jar (although it's a terrible scene) and most importantly Padme's conversation with Anakin, where he gives her the japor snippet. Those scenes had every bit as much feel of being in the cramped quarters of a moving starship as the non-cockpit Millennium Falcon interior scenes.

    However, you still have a point. There is noticeably less time overall in the prequel trilogy spent aboard moving starships.
  8. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    With all due respect jacemathem you should watch the films over again.

    The blocade in the beginning of TPM is no flyby
    nor is the arrival at Coruscant which is later called imperial center.

    Both of these have views from the cockpit
    like when Anakin is told that Coruscant is one big planet, and there is Palpatine waiting...thats not a flyby.


    So If your going to argue about certain scenes, make sure you know every detail of them.

    PT has about as much star battles as OT

    TPM had about as much as ANH, maybe a little less
    AOTC does not have many but neither did TESB.
    E3 will have more, because ROTJ has more.
  9. jacemathem Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 5
    Phaeryx:

    In Episode I, I forgot the very short scene with Qui-Gon on the Republic cruiser, the very short scene in the Federation battleship conference room, and the also short scenes on the battleship bridge. Thanks for bringing them up, but they still barely add to the overall amount of space time spent in the movie.

    Now the action sequences on the battleship, and the scenes in Amidala's royal starship really don't have any references to space, as the battleship sequence is an ground-based action sequence that takes place in long, enclosed, viewport-less hallways, and the scenes on the Naboo cruiser are short still dialogue in domed, vieport-less rooms that had no reference to the space outside. Those scenes were poorly done to make it seem like they were really in space onboard a moving starship. The same goes for that transit shuttle Padme and Anakin took in Episode II, and in that scene their faces practically filled the whole camera.

    In the scenes in the Millennium Falcon, you could obviously tell you were in a spaceship and were travelling through space. Even in the deep parts of the ship, in IV when Obi-Wan is teaching Luke, and in V where Han is trying to fix the ship, you can tell you're in a starship and it's moving! The humming of the engines and/or hyperspace, and the asteroid hit was a BIG wake-up call.

    Dooku's approach to Coruscant aboard the solar sailor is still a flyby, and the time you're thinking about where we saw inside the cockpit at Dooku and his pilot droid was the takeoff out of the Geonosian hangar, and that was not in space, neither was the TPM Ric Olie scene above Coruscant with Anakin, nor the AOTC Anakin and Padme discussing where to land on Geonosis.


    Darth-Seldon:

    Don't tell me to go back and watch the movies because I forgot a few small scenes. They still don't add up enough to deter my statement, and you shouldn't jump on the bandwagon to belittle me because Phaeryx brought them up.

    Of course the blockade RUN was not a flyby, the Republic cruiser's approach to the battleship WAS, which YOU referred to as a "blockade runner". The blockade RUN, different, is when the royal starship is escaping Naboo and flys through the battleship formation, with R2 saving the day.

    Also, I never did refer to Coruscant as Imperial Center, you did. :)

    Your referencing the TPM arrival on Coruscant where Ric Olie is telling Anakin about the planet, and where they are about to land is not in space, which is what this thread is all about.

    So if you're going to tell me to know every detail about certain scenes, make sure you know them yourself first. :)

    When I mean "Space and Cockpit Scenes", it comes in two parts: The exterior shots in space of starships and spaceship battles, and the interior shots of starships moving in space, such as the cockpit angle of the Millennium Falcon, the cockpits of the starfighters, and other scenes aboard starships where you KNOW you're onboard a moving starship. How do you know? By the evidence given in the scene (noise, sudden ship movements, etc), not because you know by previous knowledge of the movie and storyline. And we're not just talking about space battles in specific, Seldon. This is just about the feel that you're in space and you're on a starship.
  10. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    According to EU, Coruscant is called Imperial Center under Palpatine...so that is not wrong, according to Eu it is correct.

    The Ric Olie thing begins in space...He says it is one giant city when they look at it from space.

    You really cannot judge how much time is spent in space in the PT, until the prequels are finished.

    And I'm not jumping on a bandwagon, before the poster you refer to said anything, I made it quite clear that I disagree with you.

    Wait to E3 then we can discuss this.

    -Seldon
  11. jacemathem Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 5
    According to EU, Coruscant is called Imperial Center under Palpatine...so that is not wrong, according to Eu it is correct.

    Yes, that's true, but not for the time frame where you and I were referencing it. ;)



    The Ric Olie thing begins in space...He says it is one giant city when they look at it from space.

    It's in the atmosphere above the skyscrapers, and I'll be happy to get you a screenshot later, but now I have to do laundry. :)



    You really cannot judge how much time is spent in space in the PT, until the prequels are finished.

    Exactly, but my theory is not that the PT has less space time than the OT, but that the apparant lack so far may be a reason why it is disliked in comparison.
  12. BaronFel88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2004
    star 7
    You are right about the cockpit scenes adding to the movies, jacemathem. I love the bridge-to-cockpit exchange in the end of ESB. It just has that cool feel to it to see people doing stuff with a space backdrop.
  13. Phaeryx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2004
    I think there are 2 variables here which mainly account for the discrepancy in the amount of screen time aboard starships which actually contribute to the different feel of the OT.

    The first and major one is the Millennium Falcon. It was an important ship where alot of scenes took place, and it was almost a character with its own personality. There's no equivalent in the PT.

    Secondly, and confined mainly to ESB, you have the scenes aboard the Executor, where Vader spends most of his time. You might add that in all 3 of the OT films the forces of the Empire are almost always in space, if you count the Death Star as a giant starship, which it was. You almost get the sense that the Empire is ruled from space since you never see Coruscant in the OT (until the end of ROTJ SE).

    The fact that the PT focuses the action planet-side doesn't really bother me, though. I like the different feel. I interpret the title "Star Wars" to mean not necessarily "war in the stars," but rather "war amongst the stars (star systems)."
  14. Billy_Dee_Binks Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2002
    star 4
    You are all forgetting the buttload of scenes onboard the Royal Starship in Ep 1. There were a lot of cockpit scenes- the escape from the Blockade, the travel to Tatooine, escape from Tatooine, Coruscant to Naboo,.....

    Not necessary. If you don't like a topic, don't post in it.
  15. Billy_Dee_Binks Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2002
    star 4
  16. fosh-bantus88 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2003
    star 4
    the prequels have their share of cockpit scenes, but most of them take place during searches or journeys.

    most of the OT cockpit scenes, however, take place during fights or moments of tension.
  17. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    Give the prequels a chance we still have an entire film to go.
    and TPM had a lot of space scenes.

    -Seldon
  18. danmcken Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2003
    star 3
    in the OT theres more space scenes because the rebels are always on the run but in the PT people can just stay on there planets without fear of the empire turning up to kill them.
  19. Billy_Dee_Binks Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2002
    star 4
    Good arguement there.

    P.S.: The escape through the blockade in Ep 1 could be considered as a battle cockpit scene.
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