main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

  2. The Boards Are Now Reopened For Business:

    READ THIS: your ability to post here depends upon it.. See the new rules thread here. Bans can and will be handed out to anyone who doesn't abide by the forum rules.

Discussion TLJ Space chase/ Crait plan discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by 3sm1r, Feb 1, 2018.

Tags:
  1. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    First of all, I want to thank the moderator (@A Chorus of Disapproval ) for the approval.

    This thread is intended to discuss the whole subplot of the space chase, the decisions taken by Hux, the inner fight between Poe and Holdo and the plan of hiding in Crait. I want it to be an opportunity to discuss both the technical aspects of the subplot and our personal opinions about it.
    I will start by writing few examples that I have found here and there in other threads:

    1) Why didn't Holdo reveal her plan to Poe?
    2) Why didn't Hux send TIE fighters?
    3) Did the transports have a hyperdrive?
    4) Why was it so difficult to contact the allies?
    5) Why didn't they go to Crait with a lightspeed jump?

    Please, if we can avoid to start philosophical digressions about the definition of "plot hole" it will be highly appreciated.
     
  2. The Raddinator

    The Raddinator Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    We can answer 3 extremely definitively from the Incredible Cross-Sections; no, the transports did not have a hyperdrive. (Although you can argue that should have been made clearer in the movie itself)
     
    3sm1r likes this.
  3. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Fearless Vampire Killer star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Does. Not. Compute.
     
  4. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Did I do something wrong?
     
  5. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    1) I think she was about to but Poe didn't give her a chance. When Poe returns to the bridge after his mutiny 3PO tells him that Holdo was looking for him. Just speculation of course but I imagine she was going to tell him then.

    2) He's an idiot.

    3) No.

    4) I don't think it was. They probably didn't want the First Order to intercept their communications so they waited until they arrived on Crait.

    5) I don't think they had a specific destination in mind. They just needed to get away from the First Order. After they thought they escaped is when they started looking for somewhere to hide.
     
    Ody_Mandrell likes this.
  6. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    He esplicitly asked her to tell him she had a plan. That could have been a good moment. However, she started talking about the sun instead.
     
    Rhyoth and MrElculver2424 like this.
  7. La Calavera

    La Calavera Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Also, Poe's plan was to jump to ligthtspeed but...to where?
    They only had enough fuel for one jump. What they were going to do in the middle of nowhere in space without fuel for more LS jumps outside of slowly dying?

    Unless he had a location in mind?
     
    AhsokaSolo likes this.
  8. wobbits

    wobbits Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2017
    It wasn't that they had difficulty reaching their allies, they just didn't really have any left. The film tells us that the message reached their targets but that no one was responding/coming to their aid.

    Bloodline explains that many in the Senate and the GFFA didn't really trust Leia after the secret of her parentage was disclosed to the Senate. It was a huge deal. She ended up having to resign as Senator because of it. One of her last actions before she resigned was to meet with Admiral Ackbar and a few other people who still believed in her and that is how they formed the Resistance. It was a very small band.

    One of her biggest detractors (and the person who leaked the Vader secret) was also a FO operative working closely with the Senate.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  9. zackm

    zackm Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    He asks if she has a plan. She implies that she does indeed have a plan via a Leia quote. He sees the transports fueling up and calls her a traitor. She tells him to get f'd.
     
    CEB and redxavier like this.
  10. Storm_Cloud

    Storm_Cloud Episode IX Treatment Contest 2nd Runner-up star 3 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 2016
    The initial jump from D'Qar is a point I don't follow. Assuming they wouldn't be followed, they jump to a point in space too far for sub-light travel for three of the ships to the nearest planet. They must be in the same system as Crait to be only 18 hours sub-light travel time from the planet.

    So why pick that spot? It's not random - you can't hyperspace randomly - so they chose that spot. The evacuation is planned, admittedly at short notice, so the destination is planned, but the only option from there for three of their ships was a final jump somewhere else.

    Is there something from the period after the jump but before the FO arrive that indicates their plan? I can't remember what happened, except that it wasn't long.
     
    3sm1r likes this.
  11. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    I'm just saying that she chose the worst possible moment to be cryptical
     
    leopardhk47 and Sarge like this.
  12. La Calavera

    La Calavera Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2015
    I'm not sure if TLJ is even totally aware of the plot in Bloodline. Because in the book, in order for that plot point to work, nobody knew what had happened in the Death Star II and that Vader was redeemed/saved Luke (and the book effectively ends with Leia retiring, Luke somewhere in an island not contacting anyone, and nobody in the galaxy still knowing what happened in the DS II). And yet you have Rey in TLJ who seemed to be well aware of that story as if that was common knowledge.

    But I think Bloodline says that most of Leia’s allies still supported her despite the revelation (I think she only lost for one vote?). Also, it’s a big galaxy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  13. wobbits

    wobbits Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2017
    TLJ is definitely not aware of the plot in Bloodline and that shows elsewhere in the film as well. But Bloodline is what I thought of when Lt Connix tells Leia on Crait that the message was received by the allies but no one responded. BBM. Most of her allies but it doesn't say where they were. And at this point how many planets has the FO blown up?

    And I think I remember reading that SOME of the members of the Senate were aware of Luke Skywalker as being a Jedi and at that point not having done anything that would make them think he was the next Jedi turned Sith a la Vader.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  14. zackm

    zackm Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    I really disagree.

    She specifically used a quote from Leia to gain some trust. She knew Poe would trust Leia, so she figured demonstrating that she's in lockstep with Leia would quell Poe's concerns.

    Unfortunately, Poe is a hothead and immediately dismisses her request for trust when he sees the transports fueling up.

    It's really shocking to see people defending Poe.
     
  15. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    I'm not necessarily defending Poe, and I surely don't intend to "shock" you. I'm just saying that she had several opportunities to simply tell him what she intended to do. If there was a good reason not to do it, I would like to know it.
     
    MrElculver2424 likes this.
  16. wobbits

    wobbits Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2017
    Agreed. Leia DEMOTED him for a reason. He shut off his comms while she was talking and disobeyed the order she was giving at the time which resulted in losing many lives. I don't think Holdo owed him an explanation for jack.

    He would have disregarded and disobeyed Holdo too IMO.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
    zackm likes this.
  17. zackm

    zackm Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    I think that plot point works perfectly fine regardless of whether or not people know that Vader was "redeemed". I imagine people around the galaxy don't actually give 2 poops that Vader changed his mind at the end. They still remember him as the evil enforcer of the Empire. The guy that killed and enslaved people all over the galaxy.
     
    Sarge, CEB and wobbits like this.
  18. wobbits

    wobbits Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2017
    Right and that was the problem for Leia. The majority of the Senate was not willing to look at her whole entire lifetime of service and let that speak for itself. She was immediately branded badly because she hid Vader from them and his evil past was what had them worrying about Leia now that they felt they couldn't trust her. (her main detractors were loud in the Senate) She was nominated for the position of First Senator and she withdrew her nomination because they were acting like she'd be the next Vader once she was elected.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  19. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    When Poe originally asks her plan (right after she had just taken over command) I'm not sure they had a fully developed plan that they could tell him. The second time he barges onto the bridge and demands to know what it is. He's completely out of line so her response to him is likely the response any commander would give. He's lucky she didn't throw him in the brig (and given what happens next she probably should have.) Despite all that though I think it's likely she was willing to reconcile with him which is why she's looking for him but instead he engineers a mutiny against her.
     
    3sm1r and wobbits like this.
  20. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Fearless Vampire Killer star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Disapproval... Approval.
     
    3sm1r likes this.
  21. La Calavera

    La Calavera Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2015
    I wasn't talking about that. I was just saying that there was that plot point in Bloodline, that doesn't well connect to Rey from Jakku knowing it in TLJ. Maybe between Bloodline and TLJ somebody found out about it and broadcasted to the galaxy.
     
  22. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    I thought in Bloodline people did know, they just made a point that they only had Luke's word to go by? I thought I Leia's rival brought that up to her at some point. I might be remembering wrong though.
     
    wobbits likes this.
  23. La Calavera

    La Calavera Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2015
    No. The reveal was just Vader was Leia's and Luke's father. Upon that, there was a speculation about the twins working secretly for the Empire or something like that and also Vader forcing himself on Padme because he was an evil man. And that was it. Nothing else was revealed after that.
     
    AhsokaSolo likes this.
  24. Cantina Regular

    Cantina Regular Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 24, 2016
    Didn’t they say Crait was uncharted? Maybe they didn’t have exact coordinates and had to ballpark it’s location. Leia said, moments before the FO found them post jump, they need to find a new base. I think Crait was always the plan just in different ways
     
  25. wobbits

    wobbits Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2017
    Yes. Crait had been used by the Rebellion when Leia was around 16. It's featured in another new canon novel. Princess Leia of Alderaan.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018