ST Space chase/ Crait plan discussion thread

It seems like you're forgetting about the part where the FO just initiated a galactic take-over. They have no idea what sectors are safe to travel to at that very moment. It's pretty straight forward. Jump to a PLACE in the middle of nowhere so that the FO can't find you. Reach out to allies to find a safe place to replenish resources.

 

@zackm That galactic take over is:

One, badly explained. One line in a crawl doesn’t tell me anything about their actual presence in a galaxy made of thousands of systems. Just like, I guess, one line in the crawl of TFA didn’t tell you the details of the NR’s support of the Resistance, which you chose to entirely dismiss.

Two, it happened after TFA. They had all the time in the world between Bloodine and TFA to establish bases and evac points, and do the basic of every military operation. Which was my point.

Heck, they could’ve just left a ship fitted with SOS resources in the “middle of nowhere” space location they clearly knew it was safe to jump to, and make that the rendezvous point, or a mobile base.

 

Yes. Not when they stopped in middle of nowhere -- but it did impede their ability to make their next move. Contacting certain allies would've meant their end as well as exposing their allies. And the attack obliterated heir leadership and Leia's ability to lead. So any further plans were lost.

Plus the resistance was poor and underfunded. Scrambled by Leia as a watchdog for the imperial remnant/first order. I saw her as a radical. And the republic grew complacent and wrote off the imperials cuz..: they won.

My take on it.

Also -- one line in the crawl doesn't mean anything. A new hope throws a line that the rebels won their first battle against the empire and it didn't cause me to feel lost during the film. What? A battle? I didn't see the battle so I can't follow what's going on when Leia and vader are talking about stolen plans.

 

^ I’m not sure what you’re trying to say.
They couldn’t contact their allies because they didn’t have the means to it. That’s why they were trying to find a base. And they tried to contact their allies.
Their plan all along was “go to this spot, then think of a base”. FO finding them only made it more imperative. Also because they forgot to fuel their ships.

 

I spent more than 20 years in uniform, experienced a lot of military leadership, and was trained at some myself. That leadership model is the ideal way of motivating the troops, get them to trust you and feel confidence in themselves. There's not always time to do it that way, but when possible, it's the best way to lead. I was not the least bit impressed with Holdo's leadership as presented in TLJ. Would I fly off the handle like Poe did in that situation? Probably not, but I definitely would not feel good about following Holdo into battle. Subordinates might not need every detail of the battle plan, but understanding the outlines of the big picture and knowing their places in it goes a long way toward making the plan work smoothly. That last part was a big theme of the Jedi plot too.

 

Whoa whoa whoa...Let's cool it here.

I acknowledged that I had forgotten about it and that it created a hiccup in the NR/Resistance dynamic.

Don't try that ish with me.

 

^ Sorry I didn't mean to sound aggressive.

 

You are using your knowledge as audience to judge the behaviour of in-universe characters. Don't you see how this is invalid?

It was not obvious to everyone else in-universe.

Funny thing, you are all spinning this as a criticism for the movie, while the movie has clearly managed to manipulate your emotions exactly like it wanted.

The movie wanted to make you take side against Holdo. The movie wanted you to agree with Poe.

Then when the movie shows that not only Poe but the audience was wrong the whole time, most fans were able to enjoy it, while a few are still attached to their original feeling.

This is actually a praise for the movie.

Keep it coming.

 

Actually the movie tried to make a "plot twist" and show Holdo as a hero. She died and I still think her actions were unnecessary, especially touch Poe's body while he was unconscious

 

lol what?

 

[Removed]

 

LOL, cannot say if you are joking.

 

Yeah, I know she touched him. It was literally everything else in your post that I was "lol what?"-ing.

 

sorry!

No, I'm not joking

What I'm trying to say is that I don't agree with her behavior, not matter if in the end she died as a hero.

Poe's comics showed Leia commanding the Resistance without despise her group. Holdo called Rose a "who" and Finn a Stormtrooper but somehow the movie want me to think Holdo as a great leader

 

But give us more details about your complaint for her touching Poe. I'm not sure if I get it right, it seems you're suggesting that Poe was somehow violated by her gesture. Is my interpretation correct?

 

Not exactly violated but it still make me uncomfortable. Especially after read about her old scenes

 

all this talk about touching Poe has me hot and bothered.

Fully conscious of course

 

How many kamikazes lost their lives flying into the decks of American ships?

How did that end?

 

"You are using your knowledge as audience to judge the behaviour of in-universe characters. Don't you see how this is invalid?"

No I don't, because it's NOT "invalid." You might not like it, but that doesn't make it "invalid." I'm going by what the movie tells us about Poe, and what characters say about him, and his actions. Nothing "audience viewpoint" about it. And given that, yeah Holdo should have known better, any junior officer fresh out of military school would have known better.

Funny thing, you are all spinning this as a criticism for the movie, while the movie has clearly managed to manipulate your emotions exactly like it wanted.

The movie wanted to make you take side against Holdo. The movie wanted you to agree with Poe.

Then when the movie shows that not only Poe but the audience was wrong the whole time, most fans were able to enjoy it, while a few are still attached to their original feeling.

Funny thing is that none of this is true. First of all, I left the movie STILL agreeing with Poe and feeling like Holdo being out of the picture was the best thing to happen to The Resistance because now they're spared her incompetence from now on. Second the movie WANTED the audience to feel wrong, but only SOME people came away feeling that way. Imo, it's another case of poor execution in a movie full of poor execution. And third "most people" is entirely subjective. No, you don't know that, even these very boards contradict you. You might have liked it an that's fine. But you don't speak for "most people" anymore than I do.

That's a problem with the movie.

Keep it coming.

 

They should have kept Holdo as sexually harassing Poe, just to make the scene more bizarre.

 

Ok then, so you confirm that you are using audience exclusive information to judge in-universe character behaviour.
More power to you, I guess.

Oh sure, Holdo was incompetent, she only managed to create a plan to save them, what was she thinking, right?

Who cares if Poe was an insubordinated liar, was not careful to check if the unknown codebreaker was hearing his conversation before talking out loud about their secret information to Rose/Finn... #teampoe

How full of poor is this movie, right?

Such obvious failure, we all know any good movie will make every single person feel the same about everything.

Poor execution for sure. Good execution is when every single person loves a scene.

We had a "Rate TLJ" thread, and MOST people (>61%) reviewed TLJ with a positive score (3/5 ok with a few issues, 4/5 solid all around, 5/5 absolutely loved it).
So yeah, MOST people.

Let's not even go into how the scores on that thread had text descriptions which skewed the results downwards, and was victim of angry 0/5 voting.

Now you got me. Great one.

 

showing a latino suffering sexual assault wouldn't help in anything.

 

All great, and I agree with everything. It was amazing to hear from @Sarge.

But my point is, if we trace a real world parallel, the submarine captain was knocked out, and she had to take leadership while they had 3 destroyers on their tail dropping depth charges and their air was on the end.

Add to that the bad behaviour of Poe, and I can find justification for her actions.