ST Space chase/ Crait plan discussion thread

Hux chased and managed to kill amost every single Resistance ship and soldiers.

In fact, not a single Resistance ship exists. All they got is the Millennium Falcon, which was never a Resistance ship.

And about 12 people.

He is very effective in TLJ, no matter how dumb he looks. He still manages to win, even if he takes massive losses.

 

Other than that not being his arc.

 

Exactly. And from what we're given it sounds like he's the one who authorized the use of what was likely a beta test phase of hyperspace tracking in the first place. He's the one who's providing the update on the technology himself to Snoke.

He falls for a 10-15 second drawn out play on communications because he's trying to get his own message to them and intimidate them and every other bit of him supposedly being made a joke is more him just getting Force bullied by Dark Side users, which isn't at all out of place with what other military leaders have had to face in the past.

Didn't you know? By the same logic Han's arc in TESB was just that he should never trust anyone ever again, and should only look after himself, based on what Lando did to him in TESB. It's too bad Han's arc also ended after only 2 films there with that sad lesson learned just as he's being frozen.

 

Hux does not appear to have a sense of humour so, yes, he would have had a false sense of security.

He's in the middle of an operation intended to capture or destroy the entire Resistance as it tries to evacuate D'Qar, (not pick off fighters the moment they appear) he would not let himself be distracted to fully engage one lone fighter that he doesn't realise is actually about to make an attack, against all conceivable odds. And then follow it up with a bombing run of questionable relative gain to the resistance.

Kylo Ren on the other hand makes precisely that error at Crait that Hux avoided at D'Qar.

 

Exactly, Hux tells Kylo to keep pushing forward to the base.

This gives insight as to why he didn't care to engage Poe the moment he appeared.

He thought it was just a distraction or a contact to ask for surrender. He is always focused on the main objective.

This was a weakness as he took this mantra too literally during the opening scene, but in the end he is more right than wrong to focus more on the big objectives.

 

Hux is patient and likes to be calm and organized. I will give him that.

I also agree with Snoke though in that they could have ended this at D'Qar had they done a better job.

 

I think Domhnall Gleeson's idea saved his character in this movie. Here he is talking about the scene where Hux was about to shoot Kylo Ren when he found him unconscious

 

@Jedi Jessy : That awkward moment when the guy playing Space Hitler has to remind his writer/director to include a scene where his character looks evil...

In ESB, Lando represents Han's troubled past, while Leia & the Rebellion are a brighter future.

His lesson here was to stop hanging with the shady "friends" / connections of his "darker" past (or at least stop trusting them), and fully embrace a more noble "crowd" (the Rebellion).

 

No. Lando was forced by Vader to be part of it or his city could suffer the consequences. In the end Leia and Chewie understood that and Lando helped them to find Han. He even faced Vader because he wanted Leia to be safe.

Holdo situation was totally different, she made people feel unsafe all the time and Poe felt that he have to do something or everybody is going to die. She kept calling people "flyboy" "who" and distancing herself from the group

 

I'm still looking for someone to defend Poe's decision to not tell Holdo that Finn and Rose had pieced together how they were being tracked and where they were being tracked from.

Somebody attempt to explain this.

 

Simple. They are both to be blame for the disaster for not trusting each other. Holdo gets additional blame for being the de-facto leader of the Resistance and yet somehow ended up causing a mutiny by not establishing trust (or even properly restraining him like putting him in the brig) with Poe, who is hotheaded and already influential enough among the crew to actually initiate a mutiny.

If you flame mistrust rather than try to deescalate the conflict, you deserve what happens next.

 

I appreciate your willingness to admit that Poe's decision to withhold potentially critical information from his superior was indefensible.

 

All Holdo did was nothing less than her job.

 

He told her what Finn and Rose was doing in some point of the film and she prefered to say “A Stormtrooper and a who now are doing what?”.

 

In the novelization Poe is very aware of how Holdo seems to be blind to crew morale. He notices that morale is going down hill, and that people don't seem to fully trust Holdo (it's not only him) and that Holdo doesn't address these things. He sees this as poor leadership. I mean I think there's enough of this in the movie too, but it's spelled out in the novelization.

Holdo is more unreasonable in the novelization and I kind of wish they'd made her a bit more unreasonable in the movie. In the novelization she's dead set against any brash heroic moves as she believes such things will be the end of the Resistance. She makes this clear to Poe more than once and leaves him stunned usually after kind of subtly insulting him. I am not sure she intends to be insulting, but her people skills perhaps leave something to be desired.

 

Is this a defense? Or are you acknowledging how badly he botched the handling of that info?

 

Holdo despising Finn and Rose now is Poe's fault?

 

Who said that?

I'm looking for a defense of Poe's decision to not tell Holdo about what Finn and Rose had figured out. Are you willing to defend that decision?

 

Umm, yes it is, sorry.

 

No. His arc is becoming more responsible and less reckless.

Holdo kept information that needn't be told the entire resistance because she was responsible for the entire resistance. When Poe did come by this information, he proved to be irresponsible with it.

 

Actually this is not what happened. Poe just saw that the transports were being charged, and this is something that was not secret at all. The missing information was the existence of a base in Crait. Now, since the crucial part, the one that the FO should have never known, was the escape with the transports, and since it was not hidden to anybody, I find it reasonable to wonder why she didn't simply communicate the whole plan to reassure the crew.
The supposed secrecy of the mission is not suggested anywhere in the movie, it's just an attempt of explanation from the fans.

 

And when Poe saw what Holdo could no longer keep to herself and only the crew involved in the preparations, he leaked that information over the comms, undermining the whole operation

Because she's not obligated to tell anyone who doesn't need to be informed in order for the plan to be executed. That's how chain of command works. It's not an egalitarian club where you have total transparency purely in order to mitigate your comrade's potential willingness to second guess you and to mutiny rather than not get their own way.

Like when Mace told Anakin to trust him. Mace was not obligated to tell him what might happen in every possible eventuality. He explicitly warned him to keep out of it. And look what happened.

War is hell. If you cannot abide by that, don't join up. Don't go to war.

 

Actually it is, Poe was not supposed to be allowed onto the bridge...which is how he learned of the refueling. The guard at the door failed to keep Poe out and thus partially shares the blame for what happened next. However....there was NO need for Poe to share this information with Finn....who was about to sneak onboard a ship run by people who can read minds.

 

I've never said the opposite. I'm just saying that everybody could have easily seen that they were charging the transports, so I don't accept the claim that she was hiding it from Poe for security reasons.

This is the second possibility, but frankly I don't buy it either. Poe just asked her to at least tell him that she had a plan. She could have said : "yes I have, and I need you to trust me on my words for the moment", or something similar.

EDIT

When is this established? Who tells him "you're not supposed to be here"? I must have missed it 'cause I don' t recall anything like that.