ST Space chase/ Crait plan discussion thread

Apparently only the ship of Finn and Rose had hyperdrive. The other ships, the one who were destroyed before transports, could probably be tracked since they are "big ships".

 

It’s not clear if they are tracking just the Raddus and not the other ships. We know they weren’t tracking Finn and Rose’s transport but that’s about it. There is no other ship that jumps into another direction to help us give a sense of their tracking capabilities and limitations.

And yeah, for some unexplainable reason, they were only carrying one small transport with hyperdrive despite having these babies in TFA, which they did not load in the Raddus, but instead they were carrying a bunch of PT tech-dated ships that don’t have hyperdrive (or fuel for that matter).

 

For some unexplained reason, the movie decided not to give us a full list of all equipment that was inside each ship, including the ones which got destroyed, and they did not give us a detailed view of each hangar for all Resistance ships.

Also, they did not to show us a tour of the abandoned base, especially inside the bunkers, so we could check if the transports used in TFA were left there.

This completely takes me out of the movie as well.

 

That specific detail didn’t take me out of the movie though, I hope my comment didn’t offend you.

It was just an observation regarding continuity. Truthfully, the part that I find most illogical is their fuel situation, or their inability to have a backup plan or be fully prepared for escape situations.

 

Don't worry, I agree that they could have provided a better explanation about the missing hardware. Maybe they considered it but then cut it as it would slow down the movie.

 

Just a small double post (sorry mods, no more time to edit the previous post and this thread is a little slow nowadays), but I would also like to mention that it is possible that there are other Resistance ships elsewhere. I remember reading somewhere that after SKB, some Resistance members did not return to their base, instead going to other system to gather support.

So this means that 1) it is possible that the Resistance still have some ships elsewhere in the galaxy (but then why they did not answer to the distress call from Leia, maybe due to them being very far away?) and 2) the missing ships could be there.

Just to keep an open mind regarding that, if in EP IX suddenly the Resistance has some fighter ships. Also, it is possible that if there is a time jump from 8 to 9, then this would allow them to get new ships to replace their destroyed fleet.

 

In WWII many historians will tell you the war was largely impacted by fuel and reserves.

Specifically in naval battle with the Japanese but also later against Germany. In interviews with some of the top naval minds of Japan following the war they admitted they were limited by fuel concerns in most of their operations. Often having just enough to get back.

Toward the end of WWII Germany was so short on fuel that they had cut down training time in their tanks to the bare minimum to save it exclusively for war. Hitler knew he was in trouble for fuel early into WWII. It’s a huge reason for why Germany launched Case Blue on the Soviet Union in 1942.

I actually like that Johnson incorporated fuel concerns because of the role they have often played in war.

 

I don't see why this is even an issue. The fuel issue is spelled out clearly, and ships needing to refuel has been a thing since TPM.

Just because we've not seen an angle used in the SW storytelling previously, doesn't mean it's invalid when it is used, nor does it mean that it now has to be a highlighted factor in future stories, unless the story dictates.

 

Thoughts about the lightspeed weapon
I thought about it and I have arrived at what I consider to be a plausible explanation for what we saw in TLJ. I think there's a misconception about the lightspeed jump.
What Holdo did was not to go into lightspeed and then crash into Snoke's ship. The maneuver was so difficult because it involved hitting the target in that very limited space in which the "bullet ship" is still accelerating in our "normal" space. This is the reason why the lightspeed jump is not used as a common weapon. Only a military genius can do it and it's super risky.

 

I like that a lot.

 

I suspect that’s a form of what they will go with. There’s multiple phases to the jump. The initial is the star blur but the more portal-like state is this intermediate “blue phase.”



While in this blue phase ships seem to be separate from time/space until they exit it. The jump into it is similar. She was able to make contact at a high speed but one in which was not yet entirely at the hyperspace phase.

The evidence for this is here. These ships jump out and the Destroyer jumps in. The ships that jumped do not collide presumably with the Destroyer coming in because both are in that intermediate blue state for a time.

 

Right. Though in the RO scene, it looks like the ships that jumped were physically already past the SD in their “star blur” phase.

 

That’s my point though. The Destroyer was also heading toward them in the opposite direction so if it was hitable in that blue phase then those ships would have smashed into each other. They didn’t seem to.

In other words, the Holdo maneuver was likely sub-hyperspace speed and objects traveling in true hyperspace faster than light may not be hitable at all, reducing some of the controversy associated with this maneuver for some fans.

The issue then would move from hyperspace ramming to super fast but not quite hyperspace ramming and its implications. A small distinction but one that I feel makes it easier to accept conceptually because there’s no logical reason in which a ship traveling fast but not at hyperspace levels in the blue portal shouldn’t be able to hit another object.

 

I will add a detail: small ships need less space for the acceleration, therefore the light speed bullet is easier with the Raddus and virtually impossible with xwings

 

I was very underwhelmed with this scenario and sadly even after numerous viewings of TLJ my opinion hasn't changed much. I think the chase premise was the weakest part of an otherwise strong and enjoyable film.

 

Agreed. This is all consistent with Han’s description of hyperspace in ANH. His contention was that you had to be careful when plotting a route because of where you might end up, not what you travel through (in blue goo space, as I call it). So it’s only at the star blur-to-real space moment that you can hit something in real space. And Holdo had to get that just right.

 

Han said that without precise co ordinates you could "Fly right though a star or bounce too close to a supernova, That would end your trip real quick. "

This implies that a ship traveling in hyperspace can still interact with realspace objects and gravitational / radiation based events. So, at any point in the transit between point A and point B there is a risk of collision.

What does interest me is whether or not a collision is likely based on the vast volume of space involved. Stars are generally light years apart and the galaxy is mostly empty space so the odds on hitting anything seem fairly unlikely. What we don't know is how a ship in hyperspace would be affected by the warping of timespace caused by general relativity and if that interaction could pull a ship off course and into contact with a planet or star ?

Could this be why there is a great deal of emphasis placed on safe hyperspace routes ?

Also - Even the Falcon, with military grade sensors , was not able to detect the debits field caused by he destruction of Alderaan while the ship was still in hyperspace. Han stated that 'It was not on any of the charts" so we can assume that a ships sensors are not able to detect events in realspace while traveling at superlight speeds. So, even if you had traveled to a planet before you would not want to take a chance that something had changed in that area by not using updated navigational data.

As far as lightspeed ramming it was difficult to tell if Holdo had achieved lightspeed at the time of impact or if contact occurred at a high rate of speed in realspace. Ether way the resulting collision would be catastrophic.

 

Maybe. But not necessarily. All Han’s statement definitely implies is that you could end up in a star or close to a supernova if you plot the wrong course. The phrase “that would end your trip real quick” simply means...you’ll be dead. One can interpret his phrase to mean solely that the destination matters, or that the journey does too. Both interpretations are valid. And that’s why the Rogue One and TLJ scenarios fit. They fit into one of two valid interpretations.

 

@PadawanGussin
As @Bor Mullet says, it's possible that Han was mostly worried about where you arrive.
I don't buy that the lightspeed jump is just moving very fast. If that was the case, it would be dangerous every single time you use it, even in situations of peace. This is true especially if we consider that it is often used to jump in zones that are full of ships and other possible obstacles.

 

Also, it’s physicslly impossible to move beyond the speed of light in the observable dimensions. Something else is going on.

 

@Bor Mullet yeah, I wanted to also make that point, but I don't really know to what extent physics can still be used as a valid argument when talking about SW. Anyway, you're right.

 

True, of course. But the creators have generally not defied commonly understood notions of physics. Aside from the sound in space thing. Which actually isn’t wholly fair. There is sound in space. We just don’t have the auditory tools to hear it.

 

To be a bit more clear - Of course a jump to lightspeed is more than simply moving very fast. What I am not sure of is if Holdo had completed the transition to hyperspace before the impact occurred.

As a science geek I do wonder how a ship moving at superlight speeds would interact with realspace masses.

For example in the Stargate series Carter was able to prevent an asteroid from hitting Earth by jumping it into hyperspace right before it hit and exiting hyperspace on the other side of Earth.

In SW and Star Trek however it seems as if superlight objects can interact with realspace objects.

I tend to lean a bit more toward a ship being able to interact as subatomic particles traveling at FTL speeds can be detected even today and due to a ship still needing to physically pass though an area even if the space around it is warped. Of course this is all very far from settled but interesting to think about.

 

I think we're talking about something similar in this case: if the Raddus starts the jump too early, or if it's too far away, there is no impact 'cause it "disappears" from the physical world (like the asteroid) before hitting Snoke's ship. If it's too close or slow, on the other hand, it might not have enough momentum to cause a considerable damage. Therefore it was necessary, for Holdo, to be accurate enough to have the Raddus hitting the Supremacy few fractions of second before the so called "blue phase" has started.
I don't know, I'm willing to buy an explanation of this kind. It sounds fair to me.

 

Actually, if an explosion in space throws out enough molecules of gas (air that was contained inside the exploded thing) around, and if these molecules hit your spaceship with enough energy, and if there is air inside your spaceship, then you can "hear" the explosion, which will be the sound of the gas molecules shockwave hitting your spaceship.

Cody's lab in youtube has several interesting experiments like this one and others.