Clone Wars Speedrunning TCW: Which episodes are absolutely necessary?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by johnboy3441, May 4, 2014.

  1. johnboy3441 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2007
    star 1
    The thread title pretty much covers it, but to elaborate: Say someone doesn't feel like watching the entire series, and instead only wants to watch a "fillerless" run to get the gist of it. Since the series doesn't have a proper finale due to the cancellation, let's consider "Sabotage"/"The Jedi Who Knew Too Much"/"To Catch a Jedi"/"The Wrong Jedi" as the endpoint (since RotS could be watched after that point without the feeling that anything was missed*) and work our way back.

    What non-movie characters (or characters that were in the movies but never got lines) feature in those episodes? What explicit events are referenced? What episodes would be needed to tie all of these obvious questions up? Of course, the TCW theatrical film is necessary since it sets up the Ahsoka apprenticeship, but beyond that I'm having a hard time remembering exactly what happened where (it's been a good long while since I've seen anything before season five). I figure someone here has the encyclopedic knowledge to rattle the episodes off the top of his/her head.

    *Outside of the resolution to Maul's plotline, but that can't be helped.
  2. Couq-DK Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2014
    Last edited by Couq-DK, May 4, 2014
  3. sidv88 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2005
    star 1
    I posted this in another thread, will copy and paste here:

    Currently, in a marathon, I have these TCW episodes marked as essential. Keep in mind, this is just for me only--Most people probably have episodes they would like to see on this list, or find that some of the episodes contained in my list are nonessential. My criteria for the list is the one that explains the most movie references (for instance 'Cat and Mouse' is included because it explains the ANH reference of Kenobi "serving" Bail Organa), episodes that explain major character fates (the Ahsoka leaving arc), and episodes that are refenced in major episodes (the Pong Krell arc is included due to Anakin's reminding Ahsoka what happened to General Krell in her arc).

    I left out episodes that left hanging plot threads (all Darth Maul episodes). This became tricky since the Maul/Opress episodes are so closely tied to the Ventress turning into a bounty hunter arc. In my list, I don't think Ventress appears between the TCW movie and the Ahsoka trial arc. Thus, a newbie can assume her references to Dooku abandoning her in the latter arc are due to her failure in the Clone Wars film's Rotta plot.

    I also left out episodes that showed way too much future info, mainly the 'Ghosts of Mortis' episode. This got even trickier because Qui-Gon's appearance in Mortis is referenced in the 'Voices'. Thus, I only included the 'Overlords' episode, where the main characters travel to Mortis, Kenobi sees Qui-Gon, and they leave at the end of the episode. (The ship difficulties in leaving aren't revealed until 'Altar of Mortis'). It's still somewhat messy, but a newbie can thus assume Anakin also saw Qui-Gon on Mortis when Yoda asks him about it in 'Voices', without having the whole plot of ROTS spoiled for them.

    The order:
    TPM
    AOTC
    Microseries 1 to mid-22 (right after the Padme sees Anakin's scar scene)
    "Essential" TCW episodes:

    2.16: Cat and Mouse (this arc explains how Kenobi served Organa in the Clone Wars, and introduces Ahsoka)
    1.16: The Hidden Enemy
    The Clone Wars Film

    1.22: Hostage Crisis
    3.09: Hunt for Ziro (I left out Evil Plans since it seemed kind of redundant, but these episodes explain the reference to Master Vos in ROTS)

    3.15: Overlords (rest of Mortis arc left out due to spoiling ROTS)

    4.07: Darkness on Umbara (Pong Krell arc explains Anakin's reference to General Krell in the later Ahsoka trial arc)
    4.08: The General
    4.09: Plan of Dissent
    4.10: Carnage of Krell

    4.15: Deception (Raako Hardeen arc explains how Kenobi got the name 'Ben')
    4.16: Friends and Enemies
    4.17: The Box
    4.18: Crisis on Naboo

    5.17 - "Sabotage" (Ahsoka trial arc explains why she isn't in ROTS)
    5.18 - "The Jedi Who Knew Too Much"
    5.19 - "To Catch a Jedi"
    5.20 - "The Wrong Jedi"

    6.1: The Unknown (somewhat spoilerish arc, but is necessary to understand why clones so easily turn on Jedi in ROTS)
    6.2: Conspiracy
    6.3: Fugitive
    6.4: Orders

    6.10: The Lost One (arc explains Force ghosting in classic trilogy, as well as showcasing the last time Anakin met Dooku before "doubling his powers")
    6.11: Voices
    6.12: Destiny
    6.13: Sacrifice

    Microseries resumes, mid-22 (starting with Anakin and Kenobi on rainy planet) till microseries end.
    ROTS
    ANH
    ESB
    ROTJ

    In my opinion, this covers the major points of the saga (G-canon and T-canon, before the policy switched to Story Group), and is pretty self contained with no hanging threads.
    TX-20 likes this.
  4. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    What is considered essential varies by person and taste. I don't think any TCW is. However it depends what aspects you're seeking to have addressed.
  5. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    In general, if you haven't seen the whole series I would strongly advise against a speed-run. You can never tell what you'll like until you've seen it for yourself. But as others have said, if you were going to watch just a small group of episodes you'd really need to give a category to put together a group that makes sense. You could do a Force philosophy run, a dark side run, a clones run, a bounty hunters run, a battles run, a filling-the-PT-gaps run, a character-based run, there are seemingly endless possibilities.

    That said, I never miss an opportunity to plug my Clone Wars Trilogy of fan edit films I have arranged in this thread: http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...rilogy-set-between-ii-and-iii.50009876/page-3

    Episode I

    Cat & Mouse
    The Hidden Enemy (edited to follow Anakin and Obi-Wan the whole time, skipping the parts where it's all clones)
    The New Padawan (all scenes and dialogue where the kidnapping of Jabba's son is discussed edited out, can be done smoothly)
    The Mandalore Plot (severely edited down to short Obi-Wan adventure including all talk of ancient Jedi lore, mostly to show passage of time from TNP to LAPR)
    Landing at Point Rain
    Weapons Factory
    Legacy of Terror
    Brain Invaders

    Episode II

    The Zillo Beast
    The Zillo Beast Strikes Back
    Citadel arc edit (approximately 40 minutes, focusing on Skywalker, Kenobi, and Tarkin, cut to make it seem like Plo Koon really did tell Ahsoka to go along)
    Deception
    Friends and Enemies
    The Box (most of this edited out, only including the Anakin/Yoda conversation and necessary transitions, est. 5 min.)
    Crisis on Naboo

    Episode III

    Kidnapped
    Slaves of the Republic
    Escape From Kadavo
    Overlords
    Sabotage
    The Jedi Who Knew Too Much
    To Catch a Jedi
    The Wrong Jedi

    You can probably tell I use as much Skywalker and/or Kenobi without Ahsoka as possible while still beginning and ending with her - I guess I'm trying to make her be for TCW what the droids were for Ep. IV. I could go on for several WOT's about all the connecting threads here but here are the main points, which I think conveniently work with your desire to fill the gaps between the films because that is my main motivation for wanting to edit together these films. (Though I should also add that truthfully I think they will work about as well as PT replacements as they will PT supplements.)

    - at first focusing on the heroic side of Anakin, then the progression of him showing his dark side more often the longer the war goes on

    - Anakin and the Jedi Council go from having no problems, to growing tension, to basically outright feuding, and this adding a strain on his relationship with Obi-Wan

    - Bail Organa calling Obi-Wan for help in Cat & Mouse connects to Leia's message in Ep. IV

    - including every Tarkin scene from these episodes (which are basically all his substantive appearances) builds the connection to his appearance in Ep. IV

    - Overlords and Kidnapped both refer to Anakin's past on Tatooine as depicted in the PT

    - I believe I managed to include every reference TCW made to ancient Jedi lore no matter how slight between the S2 Mandalore, S3 Mortis, S3 Citadel, and S4 slaver arcs
    Mr. Atom Bomb likes this.
  6. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Speed running?

    Watch the Nightsisters arc from season 3 and Bounty from season 4 and be done.

    If you have more time, throw in Jedi Crash. And if you like clones, Rookies and ARC Troopers are fun.
    cwustudent likes this.
  7. johnboy3441 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2007
    star 1
    Well, after some analysis, here's my list of the "bare minimum" episodes that covers the space between Episodes II and III without prompting any questions (besides what happened to Maul, obviously). I might have missed an event reference or character introduction, so please feel free to correct me.

    The Clone Wars [series premiere; sets up status quo]
    "Ambush" [introduces King Katuunko]
    "Rising Malevolence"/"Shadow of Malevolence"/"Destroy Malevolence" [introduces Plo Koon*, Wolffe, and Luminara Unduli*]
    "Rookies" [introduces Echo and Fives]
    "Bombad Jedi"/"Cloak of Darkness"/"Lair of Grievous" [introduces Kit Fisto*]
    "Dooku Captured"/"The Gungan General" [introduces Hondo]
    "Bounty Hunters" [introduces Sugi]
    "Senate Spy"/"Landing at Point Rain"/"Weapons Factory"/"Legacy of Terror"/"Brain Invaders" [events referenced in final Ahsoka arc]
    "The Mandalore Plot"/"Voyage of Temptation"/"Duchess of Mandalore" [introduces Satine, Almec, and Death Watch]
    "Corruption"/"The Academy" [introduces academy kids, Almec goes to jail]
    "Nightsisters"/"Monster"/"Witches of the Mist" [Asajj leaves Dooku, Savage introduced]
    "The Citadel"/"Counterattack"/"Citadel Rescue" [introduces Saesee Tiin*]
    "Darkness on Umbara"/"The General"/"Plan of Dissent"/"Carnage of Krell" [events referenced in final Ahsoka arc]
    "Massacre"/"Bounty"/"Brothers"/"Revenge" [Darth Maul reintroduced, Asajj Ventress becomes bounty hunter]
    "The Gathering"/"A Test of Strength"/"Bound for Rescue"/"A Necessary Bond" [referenced in "Revival"]
    "Revival" [sets up final Maul arc]
    "Eminence"/"Shades of Reason"/"The Lawless" [final Maul arc]
    "Sabotage"/"The Jedi Who Knew Too Much"/"To Catch a Jedi"/"The Wrong Jedi" [final Ahsoka arc]

    *Yeah, these characters appeared in the films, but never got speaking roles, so I count them as "introduced" here.
    Last edited by johnboy3441, May 13, 2014
  8. johnboy3441 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2007
    star 1
    Crap, I already see something I forgot: The Lux Bonteri arc needs to be included thanks to tying in to the Death Watch arc.

    "Heroes on Both Sides"/"Pursuit of Peace" [introduces Lux Bonteri]
    "A Friend in Need" [continuing Luz Bonteri arc, as well as Death Watch arc]
    "A War on Two Fronts"/"Front Runners"/"The Soft War"/"Tipping Points" [final Lux Bonteri arc]
    Last edited by johnboy3441, May 13, 2014
  9. Darkslayer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2013
    star 4
    The Mortis trilogy, the Darth Maul/Savage/Ventress episodes, and the Death Watch stuff are the best IMO, I'd definitely watch those. But ya, like @Cushing's Admirer said, what is essential varies by personal taste - really none of TCW is necessary to understand the 6 (soon to be more) movies, but it adds a lot of depth, making the movies better.
  10. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    That depends. I really didn't think TCW added much depth at all. Really the only one it did for me was the Nightsisters Arc of S3 for Dooku. Didn't like the over all tone though. Just that it further humanised Dooku. I like the final arc of S5 because of what happens. It also features Tarkin. :D The main thing most that like TCW cite I simply don't see (the hero Anakin). Not for for me. But, again, all perception.
  11. johnboy3441 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2007
    star 1
    And I forgot one other thing.

    "Grievous Intrigue"/"The Deserter" [introduces Adi Gallia*]

    I think that's everything that can be done to ensure a confusion-free runthrough of TCW in minimum time. The total comes to 56 episodes plus the pilot movie.
    Last edited by johnboy3441, May 13, 2014
  12. K'Kruhk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2011
    star 3
    A little nitpick, Saesee Tiin was introduced in the Nightsisters arc.
  13. johnboy3441 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2007
    star 1
    Yeah, this is one of the difficult things about determining whether a character has been "established" or not. In "Witches of the Mist", Saesee Tiin does appear for the first time in the series... but he stands there, says nothing, and is never referred to. It isn't until the Citadel arc that the viewer's attention is drawn to him and he actually gets a line or two. Plus, the Citadel arc pulls double duty by featuring Tarkin, who doesn't technically need an introduction but seems to come less out of nowhere than if we first see him in the final Ahsoka arc.

    Some interesting things I found in making that list: You can skip every episode with Cad Bane and Aurra Sing, as well as Aayla Secura and Shaak Ti in speaking roles, without missing anything. The latter two are the most surprising. As much as the series focuses on the Jedi, I figured the meta story arc would require the viewer to be familiar with all of the recurring ones. Not so, apparently.
  14. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    The idea that a speed run of TCW might include Bombad Jedi, Dooku Captured, and Corruption makes me sad. :(
  15. cwustudent Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2011
    star 4
    3.01 Clone Cadets
    2.16 Cat & Mouse
    1.16 The Hidden Enemy
    1.05 Rookies
    3.01 ARC Troopers

    2.13 Voyage of Temptation
    6.05 An Old Friend
    6.06 The Rise of Clovis
    6.07 Crisis at the Heart

    4.07 Darkness on Umbara
    4.08 The General
    4.09 Plan of Dissent
    4.10 Carnage of Krell

    6.01 The Unknown
    6.02 Conspiracy
    6.03 Fugitive
    6.04 Orders

    6.10 The Lost One
    6.11 Voices
    6.12 Destiny
    6.13 Sacrifice
  16. johnboy3441 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2007
    star 1
    Not to be redundant, but since I forgot several arcs in my initial list post, here it is in complete form:

    The Clone Wars (theatrical film)
    "Ambush"
    "Rising Malevolence"/"Shadow of Malevolence"/"Destroy Malevolence"
    "Rookies"
    "Bombad Jedi"/"Cloak of Darkness"/"Lair of Grievous"
    "Dooku Captured"/"The Gungan General"
    "Bounty Hunters"
    "Senate Spy"/"Landing at Point Rain"/"Weapons Factory"/"Legacy of Terror"/"Brain Invaders"
    "Grievous Intrigue"/"The Deserter"
    "The Mandalore Plot"/"Voyage of Temptation"/"Duchess of Mandalore"
    "Corruption"/"The Academy"
    "Heroes on Both Sides"/"Pursuit of Peace"
    "Nightsisters"/"Monster"/"Witches of the Mist"
    "The Citadel"/"Counterattack"/"Citadel Rescue"
    "Darkness on Umbara"/"The General"/"Plan of Dissent"/"Carnage of Krell"
    "A Friend in Need"
    "Massacre"/"Bounty"/"Brothers"/"Revenge"
    "A War on Two Fronts"/"Front Runners"/"The Soft War"/"Tipping Points"
    "The Gathering"/"A Test of Strength"/"Bound for Rescue"/"A Necessary Bond"
    "Revival"
    "Eminence"/"Shades of Reason"/"The Lawless"
    "Sabotage"/"The Jedi Who Knew Too Much"/"To Catch a Jedi"/"The Wrong Jedi"
  17. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    @johnboy3441 you realize Kit Fisto is not in Bombad Jedi right?
  18. johnboy3441 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2007
    star 1
    He's in the multiparter that is made up by "Bombad Jedi", "Cloak of Darkness", and "Lair of Grievous".
  19. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    They must know the greatness that is Hondo Ohnaka.
  20. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    Yes, but he is not in Bombad Jedi and that is a terrible episode, so if you want to introduce Kit Fisto you don't need it at all. Cloak of Darkness also doesn't have Kit but is a great episode, and is really all the set-up Lair of Grievous needs, if any.
  21. johnboy3441 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2007
    star 1
    I'm not taking the quality of the episodes into account, and I'm not breaking up multiparters.
  22. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    I kind of assumed the point of doing a speed-run was to watch the highest quality episodes, but okay.
    cwustudent likes this.
  23. johnboy3441 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2007
    star 1
    Oh, I'm sorry. I must not have been clear in my intentions. By "speedrun", I mean "the shortest list of episodes that form a coherent overarching story for the series". That means no characters appearing out of nowhere, no references to events that the viewer hasn't seen, and (to an extent) no cutting off subplots when future development is clearly implied*. It's similar to cutting out "filler" episodes from anime series. That was my goal for this topic.

    *This is the most difficult criteria to assess. For example, in "A Friend in Need", Lux Bonteri says he'll see Ahsoka again some day. While the Onderon arc that continues the subplot is not strictly necessary to understanding the rest of the story, the idea that Lux would say that, only for the audience to never see it even though they could, is somewhat incongruous. By contrast, in "Revenge", Talzin says that the Nightsisters will survive as they always have. That shows that she is going to find some way to rebuild the sisterhood, but no specific events or goals are implied, and considering that her only appearance afterword ("The Disappeared" two-parter) doesn't have anything directly to do with it, I feel the viewer loses nothing by having "Revenge" be her last appearance.
    Last edited by johnboy3441, May 14, 2014
    Dark Lord Tarkas likes this.
  24. johnboy3441 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2007
    star 1
    Okay, I just did a lot more research (I'm sick of looking at Wookieepedia) and realized I had to add a bunch more episodes. This is my final list, numbering 70 episodes plus the theatrical film. And really, I was iffy on including "Senate Murders", so you could make it 69.

    "The Hidden Enemy"
    The Clone Wars (theatrical film)
    "Ambush"
    "Rising Malevolence"/"Shadow of Malevolence"/"Destroy Malevolence"
    "Rookies"
    "Bombad Jedi"/"Cloak of Darkness"/"Lair of Grievous"
    "Dooku Captured"/"The Gungan General"
    "Storm over Ryloth"/"Innocents of Ryloth"/"Liberty on Ryloth"
    "Holocron Heist"/"Cargo of Doom"/"Children of the Force"
    "Bounty Hunters"
    "Senate Spy"/"Landing at Point Rain"/"Weapons Factory"/"Legacy of Terror"/"Brain Invaders"
    "Grievous Intrigue"/"The Deserter"
    "The Mandalore Plot"/"Voyage of Temptation"/"Duchess of Mandalore"
    "Death Trap"/"R2 Come Home"/"Lethal Trackdown"
    "Corruption"/"The Academy"
    "Evil Plans"
    "Hostage Crisis"
    "Hunt for Zero"
    "Heroes on Both Sides"/"Pursuit of Peace"
    "Senate Murders"
    "Nightsisters"/"Monster"/"Witches of the Mist"
    "The Citadel"/"Counterattack"/"Citadel Rescue"
    "Darkness on Umbara"/"The General"/"Plan of Dissent"/"Carnage of Krell"
    "A Friend in Need"
    "Massacre"/"Bounty"/"Brothers"/"Revenge"
    "A War on Two Fronts"/"Front Runners"/"The Soft War"/"Tipping Points"
    "The Gathering"/"A Test of Strength"/"Bound for Rescue"/"A Necessary Bond"
    "Revival"/"Eminence"/"Shades of Reason"/"The Lawless"
    "Sabotage"/"The Jedi Who Knew Too Much"/"To Catch a Jedi"/"The Wrong Jedi"
    Last edited by johnboy3441, May 14, 2014
  25. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    @johnboy3441 if you're going for everything that has a connection to the films you definitely need to add the Mortis trilogy from S3 and also the Yoda arc from The Lost Missions because they provide a lot of background on where the Force-ghost technique seen in the OT comes from. Although, truth be told, you seem to already include over 2/3 of the episodes and I could probably think of reasons to include almost every single episode from the remaining 1/3 by connecting them to something from the films.
    cwustudent likes this.