Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Films and Television' started by Jedi_Master_Conor, Jan 10, 2006.
He didn't want Venom in Spidey 3. It was only added because he was told Venom had to be in it.
Yeah I know he only wants to do the orignal villians of spidy...ie Green Goblin, Doc Oct,Sand Man, Mystrio and a few others. He really wanted to stay away from Venom, Carnage, Electro, and any that came out in the 80 up.
However, some information indicated that after he was basically made to use Venom, his appreciation grew for the character.
Apparently, he originally thought that Venom lacked the humanity of the other villains; not realizing that Venom was, at least, a little more complex than he originally perceived.
The most upsetting thing was how they found a way to defeat Venom without killing him, and then went ahead and offed him anyways. Had he lived they could have developed him further and he could have eventually had the screentime his character deserves.
I agree completely. The only hope of Venom (or Carnage, really) returning is the stray piece of symbiote in Connor's lab.
Don't forget one of the cardinal rules of comic books. If you don't see a body it doesn't mean they are dead. I'm sure the symbiote in Connors' lab will come into play.
It definitely appeared that Eddie Brock was killed towards the end of the film. While the symbiote survived, I wish that Brock had as well.
The key word in that is appeared.
In the last decade the cardinal rule has been extended to the point where even if you do see a body and its cremated or buried in the ground the character can still ressurect.
Except for Cap so far... Supposedly Marvel has no plans to bring Steve Rogers back.
And they have never said that before. Besides there is some question as to whether the bodies we have been shown are really Steve Rogers, Life Decoy Models (S.H.I.E.L.D. has been using them more often lately) or possibly a Skrull (tying into the whole upcoming event with them). True Wolverine "confirmed it" but he was also fooled by the Elektra Skrull as were Spidey and Doc Strange who generally are alert to such deceptions.
I don't doubt that they have no plans, but that doesn't rule out the possibility, and their current policy to try to shake things up and radically change things forever (when little actually changes or only does for a short time...Clint Barton anyone?) I question how long until they become desperate.
Marvel may be sincere, but I don't buy it. There are too many deceptions and loopholes in the story to be coincidence.
I'm sure they will retcon it at about the same time Spidey's identity is made secret again. I will admit I'm curious to see who the new Cap will be until Steve is resurrected.
I attended a Los Angeles comic-con prior 2 the Spiderman release, in 1999, and the panel was Raimi, Arad, Donner, and Stan Lee. Rami was asked by the audience members about his upcoming film...and said...The reason "we" didn't go with Gwen Stacy rather than Mary Jane is that the only significance 2 Stacy was her death...and we went with Goblin, because Venom was only recognized by the later fans....ofcourse three films later...both characters appear. All against Rami's original vision.
[link=http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071115/REVIEWS/711150305]Ebert's Verdict: It's a mess[/link]
I thought Ebert had a lot of good points and mostly agree with him. "Spider-Man 3" has nothing on 1 or 2. It was a big mess. Can someone explain to me why Sandman was needed in that film? Green Goblin 2 and Venom should have been enough villians. And it would still have been legitimate to think Spider-Man needed help against Venom. It's just completely stupid to have Sandman in there. Save it for the next movie. Plus, I found it absurd with Peter walking around in the alien custume and walking into the bar and doing all that nonsense, with his hair down, no less. And why did Gwen Stacy have to be involved in the film? He alienated her big time, and that's supposed to be the love of Spider-Man's life. The alien custume wasn't right either, it wasn't supposed to go over the suit, it was supposed to be the suit. I really felt this film was an insult to the true fans of Spider-Man. Ebert criticizes the alien custume, but fails to understand it's capabilities. Which also shows me for the casual viewer, you'd be completely lost.
I can only hazard a guess that they were trying to make this a true trilogy and wrap up the story to some degree. As the story very much arcs with the death of Uncle Ben the ending to the story would have to be some kind of acceptance of the events and a farewell. And while honestly until the end the Sandman storyline is the only I felt was of any value (they actually managed to take a rather rudimentary two dimensional villain and give him purpose and a story) sadly it can be almost completely removed from the film and it wouldn't really be missed much.
I didn't mind the Sandman arc of 3, but the film could have easily survived with only Harry and Venom as the villains, giving them more screen time (which in Venom's case, was desperately needed).
Can't beleive I missed this comment. It really makes me scratch my head how many people really miss the point of Gwen and what her role was in the comics. She had far more significance than simply her death. She really was the love of his life, his Lois Lane, the one he was supposed to be with. She was the shinning light at the end of the dark day, the reason to carry on Spidey's abusive lifestyle. She was not only gorgeous, hip and sweet...she was brilliant, gifted, challenging and often bold (she wasn't one to have her heart broken and made sure you knew it). Thats why her death resonates as it does because it truly was a horrific and shocking tragedy. And the meaning of her death went so far beyond just the Spider-Man mythos...it really became a huge turning point in comics altogether. Never before had a hero failed so completely. Not to mention the ongoing dispute as to whether it was the hero's actions that killed her. Yes her death was important and obviously overshadows her life in the comics (how could it not when it became such a huge moment) but that doesn't mean that it was her only purpose that she is solely defined by that moment. To limit her to simply being the victim, to becoming a corpse is to completely miss the point of not only the tragedy and loss of this really beautiful character (beautiful in mind body and soul) but to miss the point of her life and what she meant to the world of Spider-Man.
One of my greatest pet peeves is people who assume the limit to her worth is death, that if she exists or is adapted to any degree, she must die.
That was perfectly said.
I could have watched this withought the dancing and endles plot lines. Spider-man 3 is absolutly horrible compared to the first two. They were great.
I finally rented this movie last week. Kinda mixed feelings. Mainly possitive.
First thing they need to do is recast Mary Jane. Kirsten Dunst just doesn't do it for me as MJ--not saying she's bad, just that she isn't right for this.
Story-wize, while the pace is very jerky and uneven, it is very much like a year's worth of comics. Fight Green Goblin. Talk to MJ. Fight Sandman. Dinner with Aunt May. Discover black suit. Fight with MJ. Fight Sandman again. Show up to work. Fight GG & Sandman. Worry about suit. Visit lab. Fight street criminal.
The one thing that has been lacking from all the movies is the animosity toward Spider-man. Among the civilians, only JJJ seems to hate him. It's as if no one reads the articles by JJJ. Isn't all that bad PR having some effect, somewhere?
Another thing on the plus side is that this was the first movie that really resolved any of the story lines. Both 1 & 2 left huge areas hanging.
GG's lightsaber was kinda cheezy, but oh well.
Villains I'd like to see:
Punisher--as far as Spidey is concerned, Punisher is a maniac who needs to be put away
Hydro-man--now that they can CGI sand so much better (after years of practice since THe Mummy movies), let's see them do water
Lizard--could be interesting, especially since they've established Conners so well
Hobgoblin--maybe he can make gobbie's weapons actually work
Rhino--he's big and almost unstoppable
Kingpin--do him right this time
Black Cat--she is a burglar
Shocker--how about a team-up with Electro?
and how about some of the other minor players--wannabe supervillains that spidey can just pound on and toss in jail right away.
Vallains I don't want to see:
Kraven--unless they kill him. never liked Kraven. too silly
Carnage--yeah. definately not. this venom wasn't around long enough to sire offspring
Mutants--spidey does fight a lot of them...
Blade (see below)
Morbius (sorry, don't need vampires & spidey in the same movie)
We need more wise-cracking. Spider-man is supposed to be famous for ticking off villains by making jokes at their expense.
Doc Connors still has a piece of the Symbiont that he took for Parker for observation.