Amph SPIDER-MAN: The Amazing, Sensational, Friendly Neighborhood Discussion Thread (HTR Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Books and Comics' started by jacemathem, Jul 30, 2007.

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  1. Spiderfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    star 6
    See I always thought that it had more to do with the writers not really knowing where to take the character.
  2. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    And getting married was one of the few options that came to mind for Conway, Lee, Romita Sr., and everyone else at Marvel. So instead of doing that, they opted to kill her off to avoid going down that route.

    Face it, this is one change that will stick. Marvel will make up any excuse if the sales drop to 30,000. Quesada will not change it back. It's not a temporary story arc. Marvel has been trying to undo the marriage since 1994 and after so many years, they finally did it. Rather than hemming and hawing, they manned up and pulled the trigger. And if you ask Quesada, he says that he has no regrets saving Spider-Man.
  3. Spiderfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    star 6
    I didn't realize the character needed saving. IMO most of Strazynski's stuff was great but what killed a lot of interest was the constant changes they made to the character, all of which was either forgotten about or done away with not long after these changes are made. I was on board with Disassembled, with House of M, with The Other, with New Avengers with the Unmasking, with him being a fugitive but each time the major changes didn't stick or weren't that drastic of a change to begin with so they went unnoticed and unused. The problem isn't that the stories aren't interesting, its that Marvel keeps throwing the franchise through hoops without giving necessary closure or payoff to any of its storylines...they just dwindle and fall apart. You don't need to radically change the story in order to make it interesting.

    I mean they had an interesting story with his unmasking, being a fugitive and with Aunt May dieing at long last...thats something that had a lot of potential but seemed to have been abandoned before it had a chance to develop much.
  4. Darth-Lando Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    I think the problem was that all of these "major changes" since Disassembled haven't had time to stick and be relevant. After each change there would only be like one arc and then it was off to the next big event. We never got a chance to see Spider-Man adjust to everything that was changing in his life.
  5. Spiderfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    star 6
    And that is always what made reading Spidey interesting...watching him deal with things both personal and extraordinary.
  6. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    I agree. The problem was no follow-through. Spidey gained a bunch of new powers in Disassembled -- which, for the most part, were never used again, even in the stories immediately following that one.

    And then it was gimmick after event tie-in after gimmick, with barely any time for Spidey to have any stories.

    Disassembled. Sins Past/Remembered. Breakout (New Avengers). House of M. The Other. Iron Suit. Civil War. Black Suit. Peter David tried to follow through some. Aguirre-Sacasa tried to tell some stories. But it all happened too fast, one thing after another.
  7. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Actually, according to Quesada, the saving dates back to getting married in 1987. He claims that getting married ruined the character and that is why in the 90's, the Clone Saga came about. This is backed up by the Life Of Rielly website and the forthcoming book about the Clone Saga, which adapts that website and adds all new interviews with the rest of the 90's creative team. The stuff from "Disassembled" through "Back In Black" wasn't the problem. That was the excuse to set up "One More Day".

    It was also Quesada interfering with JMS. See, in the beginning, JMS was allowed free regin on Amazing. But once "Sins Past" and "Disassembled" came up, Quesada began to get more involved with the story telling than he had previously. He told JMS to add the organic webbing, the Iron Spider suit, tying in heavily with the Sinister Tweleve and New Avengers. JMS perfers to tell his stories without being burdened by crossovers and continuity stories. This is why he opted not to sign another exclusive with Marvel. He's staying with Thor, but he's now branching out to DC. And Dan DiDio has given him The Brave & The Bold so that he doesn't get caught up in "Final Crisis" and company wide crossovers. So that he can tell whatever story he wants, during whatever point in continuity that he wants. Using whichever character that he wants, without DC's interference.


    As to the thrice monthly, that's because Marvel has since the 70's looked at all the secondary Spider-Man books as the red headed step-child. See, all of the writers and editors were content with one book. But the higher-ups said put out a second solo book. So they did. And for a time, it was the main story in Amazing and Spectacular told additional stories. Then came Web Of in the 80's and the Adjectiveless title in 1990. By the late 80's, the three main books were all telling stories that carried over and were each important. In the 90's came the weekly format like Superman had going on. Then Marvel put it down to two main books and two spin-offs starting in 1998. But then we had three books again this decade, however this time, Marvel was putting more of an emphasis on Amazing than the other two books. This is why Marvel has choosen to give Peter one book, where all the important stories would be told. Not with three or four books. It's still technically three books a month, only with one title rather than a different title per book. Because of "Back In Black" and "Spider-Man 3", Sensational and Friendly Neighborhood were given an extention, which is why those creative teams followed up on stories that JMS had never intended to tell. The unmasking was never going to be a big storyline like we thought it would be. That was the Speedball red herring. You know, where we thought Speedball was going to die and Quesada was hinting at it, only to turn around and make him Penace. Same here. Peter's unmasking was only a short term deal to set up "One More Day" and "Brand New Day".
  8. Spiderfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    star 6
    That illustrates the biggest problem with the series...too many people tinkering with the same plot. JMS's run before he was forced to do crossovers and tie-ins was nearly epic, and some of the best stuff to come along for that franchise in years. It only fell apart when people started forcing things to happen. They are so bent on fixing the line they don't realize the great possibilities they have left undeveloped. Quite frankly it didn't need fixing, it wasn't broke.
  9. Spiderfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    star 6
    After reading Astonishing X-Men my suspicions were confirmed and Joss Whedon would write a terrific Webhead. I can only hope that when he is finished his run on Runaways that he would jump on to a Spider-Man line.
  10. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    I sincerely hope that if Whedon writes more comics for Marvel, they wait until all the scripts are in before publishing any of them, because the consistent delays are intolerable. I love his writing (mostly; his Runaways didn't do much for me, though he still has one issue left to change my mind), but I can't abide the lateness.
  11. Spiderfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    star 6
    No worse than Kevin Smith. :p
  12. Darth-Lando Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    Or Damon Lindelof. I'm STILL waiting for Ultimate Wolverine vs. Hulk #3. :mad: :p
  13. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    Kevin Smith was doing it before I was reading many comics, though, so it doesn't count.

    I'm not reading the final arc of Astonishing until the inevitable Omnibus comes. They've made me wait long enough, now they can wait a few more months for my money.
  14. Spiderfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    star 6
    No worse than Rob Schrab who left Scud The Disposable Assasin on a cliffhanger and took nearly 10 years to release the final four issues. :p

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