Spielberg and AOTC

Forget Spielberg. I love him as a director, but Minority Report was filled with so many plot holes it's laughable. I enjoyed the movie, but masterpiece is isn't. Episode III is very dark and ends on a sad note. If Spielberg directed, his pansy arse would wind up giving us a happy ending. Lucas should, and is going to direct. I wouldn't have it any other way. If any of you don't like that, then skip the film and go spend your money on something else.

If it wasn't for Lucas, Spielberg wouldn't even have Indy on his resume, since Lucas created it and owns it.

 

Just my two pence:
There are movies that rely heavily on the dialogue (Clerks, Reservoir Dogs, Annie Hall, etc.) but Star Wars isn't one of them. Also, look at Kubrick's work. 2001 has some of the blandest dialogue imaginable (deliberately so) but that movie is still remembered as a classic, because of the power of the visuals (and the music).

 

DArth Homer,

That's my point exactly. Movies are too vast an art form to generalize it, as Duckman was doing when he said "dialogue is the least important part" of a movie. It's more important in some than others; although, in the end, it's always "important", unless you're making a silent movie. BTW, the dialogue in 2001 wasn't "bland", so much as it was mechanical. The point was everyone had become so reliant on machines, that they were imitating them. In actuality, the dialogue exchanges between Dave and Hal are pretty intense.

 

Someone else likes 2001?! And I thought I was the only one. As for Spielberg, he's certainly compiled an impressive resume and deserves his accolades but at the same time, it has become increasingly clear that he has an annoying tendency for forced and awkward happy endings and A.I. was, by far, the worst example of that. I haven't seen MR yet but from what I've heard so far, the last part of the film is a bit shaky. While I'm sure that the ending of Episode III will focus on the twins as a source of future hope, Spielberg probably wouldn't be able to resist driving it into the ground. If he had done AOTC, it probably would have felt just as awkward in places. It's funny how some people talk about GL being surrounded by yes-men who don't challenge any of his ideas yet those same people tend to be silent when it comes to Spielberg. Curious.

 

"This year Samuel L. Jackson is gonna be there. I desperately want to get a one on one interview with him. "

Start your conversation by asking him about his golf game. Seriously...

 

2001 is one of the greatest movies ever made!! It's up there along with ANH in my top 5 favorite movies.

 

An earlier post complained about the wraparound story of SAVING PRIVATE RYAN and that it was trying to be like TITANTIC.

SAVING PRIVATE RYAN was shot before editing was completed on TITANTIC so I seriously doubt there was any effect.

(sigh)

God am I tired of hearing about this. The lack of understanding by people is more sad and disheartening than anything else.

The public criticism for Spielberg for the wraparound story began (I believe) mainly with the attack on it by William Goldman in PREMIERE magazine. Let's consider the source. Here's a screenwriter over 70 years old who seems to spend more time on TV being interviewed and writing magazine articles than being an active part of the movie industry. His opinion of directors has ALWAYS been negative and that goes back as far as his seminal book, ADVENTURES IN THE SCREEN TRADE. He attempted to denigrate Spielberg's contributions to JAWS in that book AND made some snide remarks about the success of E.T.

Goldman has had a history of sniping at Spielberg, and I don't think it's a great leap, considering that Hollywood is the Jealousy and Ego Capital of Planet Earth, to think that Goldman resents someone twenty years his junior being referred to as the world's greatest storyteller, especially since Spielberg has NEVER hired him to write a movie. This is especially likely since, if you read much Goldman, you'll quickly learn he's quite neurotic and insecure EVEN FOR A WRITER.

I don't think Spielberg intended for the cut from Ryan at the beginning of Omaha Beach to the D-Day invasion was ever intended as an "exact" flashback for the Ryan character anyway. But the transition makes sense, here's a WWII veteran at the Normandy cemetary faced with a sea of tombstones, visiting France for the first time in decades. Remember, one of Ryan's brothers died at Normandy, and he himself parachuted into France as part of that operation. Surely thinking back to that time is a reasonable transition to begin the tale.

What is far more important and germane to this issue is the reason Spielberg made the film in the first place: to honor the memory and contributions of the veterans of World War II whose extraordinary sacrifices prevented the most evil regime imagineable from reaching America's shores. It is essential for young people today to know what happened. Many of the WWII vets are dying off. I'm not much of a Bill Clinton fan, but at the 50th Anniversary of D-Day he hit the nail on the head: FIFTY YEARS AGO, THESE MEN SAVED THE WORLD. Literally.

The wraparound story of SAVING PRIVATE RYAN, taken in it's entirety, spotlights a profound truth that is probably lost on a generation who have never had to face anything more challenging than having Napster taken off the net, a generation whose heroes are human sewage like Eminem and whose entire standard of value is based on how much the jeans covering your ass COST and whether or not you have tickets to the Britney concert. The experiences the WWII vets had in that conflict MARKED THEM FOR LIFE. It colored their world view forever. They learned that the only thing necessary for EVIL to flourish on this Earth is for good people to do NOTHING. It haunted them for the rest of their lives. The entire length of SAVING PRIVATE RYAN, from flag to flag, illuminates this. It was DESIGNED to do so. Freedom and the fight for it is NOT SENTIMENTAL. It matters. Now that a few thousand Americans have been slaughtered in collapsed New York City skyscrapers by brutal fanatics who HATE our way of life, I suggest some of the younger generation watch PRIVATE RYAN again. Unless you are dumber than a bucket of rocks, it should give you some context.

The old man Ryan at the end of the story APPRECIATED what he had been given. That is the mark of a wise person. Wisdom sometimes comes at a high price. Spielberg conveyed that beautifully and his movie is a THANK YOU to the men who preserved America's freedom for younger generations, some of whom are movie fans with big mouths, overly critical

 

How can people say a movie doesn't rely on dialogue to tell the story? It's the crucial part!

Actually, the argument that has been put forth is that emphasis on dialogue should not out weight all the other elements used in movies to tell a story.

In fact, I wouldn't even say that it's a crucial part or at least not as crucial as the visuals.

There's also the fact that while all films utilize dialogue to a certain extent, they don't necessarily rely on it as the primary storytelling element. I refer once again to the Stanley Kubrik masterpiece 2001 which has very long stretches without any dialoge at all. In fact, the lack of dialogue is a crucial part of the story!

And the only reason this is relevant to the discussion is because Spielberg tends to focus on characters and dialogue to drive a story forward while Lucas uses visuals first and then music and dialogue. So having Spielberg direct a Star Wars film probably wouldn't work nearly as well as Lucas in the director's chair.

 

Besson wrote:

...now having a project in consideration at a major studio for me to write and direct...

You better pray your critics are far kinder to you than you've been to Lucas.

 

Minority Report is the next Blade Runner

 

Anyway, i think that Spielberg would have done a great job with AOTC. In my opinion, when comparing pure directing ability, Speilberg has Lucas beat hands down. But Lucas has the writing and ideas that give him a place in the star wars movies that is irreplaceable. But when looking just at the directing of a star wars film and any give Spielberg film, i believe in most instances Spielberg has Lucas beat.

 

Durwood,

"You better pray your critics are far kinder to you than you've been to Lucas."

You mean when I wrote that Lucas deserves a place alongside Welles and Kubrick in terms of technical innovation and alongside Walt Disney and George Melies when it comes to visual imagination? Something I've said 3,4 times in separate threads? You mean when I said Lucas was a terrific storyteller. Yeah...I hope I get those reviews.

Don't flame against someone because he chooses to look at things critically rather than as a gushing, silly fanboy. And if you choose to, do your research into what they've said in the past or you'll come across sounding like the biggest moron on two feet.

 

For my taste, the best films tell thier stories VISUALLY. If you turn off the volume and can tell what is going on in the story just by the visuals, then the director is doing a good job. Great dialogue doesn't get to me as much as great directing. I love Brian DePalma for example. The wonderful moments in his movies where there are long stretches without dialogue and the soundtrack is just music and it is all camera angles and editing and closeups and longshots, etc. and it is like watching a silent film and its great CINEMA at work.

 

Yes, but there needs to be some chemistry between the characters, born of the dialogue. Flashy animatics do not make a movie. The action and images should only supplement the dialogue.

 

If I had a nickel for every film student (especially in the L.A. area) that had a movie 'in the works at a major studio'...

You film students crack me up, you think you know everything. I had a fellow who worked for me who was a USC grad and fortunately he was one of the few who didn't act like the comic book guy from the Simpsons.

 

"If I had a nickel for every film student (especially in the L.A. area) that had a movie 'in the works at a major studio'... "

The beauty of it all is I know the truth and you think you know the truth.

 

"The beauty of it all is I know the truth and you think you know the truth."


"This bickering is pointless! Lord Vader will provide us with stolen data tapes. We will then crush the Rebellion with one swift stroke!"

 

"This bickering is pointless! "

Luke Clone,

No kidding, buddy. This isn't a forum on my private career. I only reluctantly brought it up because Duckman mentioned how laughable my comment about dialogue being an important component of films was and that I should take a "screenwriting course". It was a way to show I had a few credentials under my hat, as everyone seems to want to know where I get the gall to form my own opinion. I didn't make a big deal out of it but Durwood and Attack of the Corn (am I really writing this?) saw fit to make an issue out of it, for whatever reason. Ask them. But I'm not going to sit idly by and take it.

Now...what was the topic again?

 

Something about dialogue being more important than visuals.

Bresson,

Actually I have been following your discussion with Duckman, etc. and have read posts speaking up in defense of your posts. Personally, I think that Star Wars, or at least George, puts more importance on the visual aspect of the film than the dialogue but that's just me.

However, applying statements like that to film in general is bogus. It varies from director to director, film to film as you have already pointed out.

My above post was one of frustration as it doesn't seem like either of you are going to change your mind so everyone might as well agree to disagree. The debate wasn't going anywhere so I felt like I had to say something about it.

 

Luke Clone, the Kofi Annan of the Force.net

 

"Luke Clone, the Kofi Annan of the Force.net "

Can I quote you on that in my signature, Bresson?

LOL, your quote will join the quote of the notorious Import_Jedi in my signature...

 

Knock your socks off, bud.

Luke Clone,

Just let me say: I have no idea who you are, never spoken to you, never seen you; if I sat next to you in a restaurant I wouldn't know it. But whatever you're doing in life, I hope you're happy. You seem like pretty good egg and, unlike me, you don't get too riled by anything on these boards. Lesson to be learned.

 

"Minority Report is the next Blade Runner."

****! Minority Report is a good movie, but it sure as hell aint no Blade Runner. Pardon my language and my grammar.

 

"Yes, but there needs to be some chemistry between the characters, born of the dialogue. Flashy animatics do not make a movie. The action and images should only supplement the dialogue."

No, the dialouge is the supplement in films. In fact dialouge is really only supposed to be a part of the action. Unless of course you think that every book written on the subject of filmmaking or screenwriting is wrong.

 

Amen to what Darth Karma said. Very true is all I have to say. On the note of Minority Report and Blade Runner...Minority Report is a lot better. I didn't like Blade Runner at all.