Spielberg and AOTC

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Crimson-Larko, Jun 26, 2002.

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  1. Luke_Clone Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    Reading this thread is like watching a documentary on film making... you never know which director or which movie is going to get more of that precious 1 hour time space in order for the point to be made. ;)
  2. Darth-sennin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2001
    star 3
    I think if you look at Speilberg's body of work, it's clear that the look of the film greatly fluxuates depending on his DP. I'm not saying he has no control over the camera, but most people who saw minority report think it didn't "look" like a Speilberg film. Why? because of the DP. I am sure if Speilberg didn't like the grey film grain that minority report had, he wouldn't have allowed it, but it was the creativity of his DP that gave it that look. If you want to see were Speilberg directly effects the camera, look at the chase sequence in the movie. Speilberg is great with chases and he orchestrates them in a very high-tension way. But, the look of Minority Report is a clear depature from Speilberg's stlye and I don't think he pulled this totally different new type of cinematography out of his bum.
  3. Bresson Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 3
    I think in general, Spielberg is a different director than he was when he did JAWS. Even the way he composes shots and stages scenes are different. He doesn't use elaborately staged sequences for dialogue anymore. JAWS had some of the best staging I've seen in any action movie when it came to the dialogue scenes. Now, Spielberg is more apt to just have his actors stand and do the typical master shot, over shoulder. I don't believe Kaminski is the reason why. I think it's because Spielberg makes movies faster than ever. He averages two a year now. So, yes, his visual style has changed somewhat, but I think that has more to do with the maturity and evolution of the man, not the change in the DP.

    And I believe I saw Spielberg on the TODAY show talking about how he wanted the silvery look to MINORITY REPORT (maybe it was his Roger Ebert interview), so that was an aesthetic decision that he made and Kaminski achieved because he had used it on LOST SOULS. Let me make clear: DPs do play an important part as respects to the LIGHTING. As I said: the DP should be responsible for the particulars of lighting and certain DPs have certain styles. But that's why they're chosen for certain projects, because their lighting style fits what the director wants. When I speak of visual style, I was addressing some poster who mentioned camera angles and moves. That's a different animal altogether.


  4. Darth-sennin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2001
    star 3
    I guess we'll have to agree to disagree 8-}

  5. HighFidelityRob Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2002
  6. TokyoXtreme Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    Steven Spielberg is a director who is starting to look like another director, George Lucas. Perhaps this is because they are good friends, and they share similar facial expressions. Whatever the reason, it is sure creepy to see them stand side-by-side, because I forget who is which, and which is who! Oh yeah, Spielberg is the one wearing glasses maybe, but when they both appeared in "Beginnings" on the TPM disc, I was sorely confused.

    Spielberg and Lucas, please don't appear together anymore. It is too difficult for me to get used to. Thank you very much.

    Furthermore, Spielberg did not appear in AOTC. That was a computer-generated Walrusman you are thinking of. Lock this thread now.
  7. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    Spielberg may be the better director from a technical and acting standpoint, but Lucas is more of an auteur in the classic sense. The only film Spielberg wrote AND directed was A.I. (with mixed results). He only co-wrote Close Encounters. Lucas has written all of the films he directed.
    What does this prove? I don't know! :)
  8. Bresson Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 3
    Darth Homer,

    Actually, Spielberg received a "written and directed by" credit on CE3K. I know, the legend is that Paul Schrader, Jerry Belson, and John Milius helped him out. But that's par for the course sometimes. Lucas shared co-writing credit on GRAFFITI. On ANH, it's well known that Brian DePalma and Jay Cocks rewrote the opening crawl and Willard Hyuck and Gloria Katz wrote the witty dialogue between Han and Leia. Even on MENACE it was reported that Carrie Fisher and Frank Darabont helped out, but I also hear it was only in an advisory capacity. But to brag that Lucas wrote MENACE himself isn't saying much.

    Again, I don't see why one has to be seen as less an auteur to make the other one seem moreso.
  9. Sifo_Dyas Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 11, 2002
    star 1
    "Minority Report was filled with so many plot holes it's laughable."

    Argh, everywhere I go I hear this, about the plot holes in Minority Report. There were no plot holes!

    ==SPOILERS==

    Supposed plot-holes:

    1) why did anderton killing crowe come up as a pre-meditated murder when anderton didn't even know who crowe was until the last second?
    ANSWER: it was premeditated, but not by anderton. burgess planned the whole thing out meticulously, as did "crowe". also, cruise had been wanting to kill the man who kidnapped his son for years, so it was premeditated in that way as well.

    2) how could anderton gain access to the temple after he had been "convicted" of murder?
    ANSWER: again, people always forget about burgess. how could burgess have murdered colin farrell's character unless anderton succeeded in rescuing agatha? it was to burgess's advantage that there be a temporary blinding of the pre-crime system so that he could silence anyone who was catching on, without repercussions.

    3) how could they just let all the criminals go at the end, and why would they let the precogs just live peaceful lives in a cabin somewhere when their skills would be so useful to society?
    ANSWER: because pre-crime had been proven to not work, it would be legally impossible to hold any of the inmates arrested via pre-crime. as for the precogs, i assume they would have wanted a peaceful life on their own, rather than working for the government again.


    And now, back to your regularly scheduled topic.
  10. Sithchilde Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2002
    star 1
    *Runs past Minority Report spoilers with his eyes closed*

    Interesting thread.

    Forget Spielberg, I wanted John Sayles to direct AOTC!

    Ok, maybe I didn't but, damn it, John Sayles deserves a mention. He's one of the greatest writer/directors America has ever produced!

    Actually, now that I think about, John Sayles wouldn't have been a totally bizarre choice. I mean, the guy is brilliant at handling numerous plot threads, can interweave and maintain interest in a large group of characters, and isn't afraid to explore the darker aspects of politics and the human psyche.

    ...ok, I'll shut up now.


  11. segask Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 1
    "Argh, everywhere I go I hear this, about the plot holes in Minority Report. There were no plot holes!"


    *Minority Report Spoilers*









    I really liked MR and have seen it twice and want to see it again, but the 'using andertons old eyeball to enter the prison' is a big plothole. At the end of the movie, Andertons wife uses the eyeball to get into the prison to get him out. At that point in the movie your agument of Burgess still allowing Anderton's retinal eyescan to pass security because he wanted Anderton to take Agatha from the pre-cog temple doesn't work. Once Anderton was halo-ed and they realized he had his eyes swapped, they would have set the security system to not allow his retscan access anywhere in the building as a routine safeguard against someone acquiring Anderton's old eyeball on the blackmarket or something like that.

    Also, at the end when Anderton's wife is helping Burgess with his tie and Burgess tells her "I'll look up drowning victims..". Then she says "I never said she drowned". And then that's supposed to be a big dramatic moment because she realizes he is lying, etc. But earlier in the film, just before Anderton is brown-balled by the precogs and goes on the run, there is a scene where Anderton is at Burgess' house and Anderton shows Burgess the little silver-dollar sized piece of recording glass that he recorded Ann Lively's death on. Burgess is holding up the little recording glass and looking at it and he could see the image of Ann Lively drowning. So Burgess would have known that she drowned.
  12. Darth Fierce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2000
    star 4
    Ah, plot holes.

    The following is true of Minority Report, Star Wars, and any other movie you want to name:

    People who don't like a movie can find any number of plot holes they want.

    People who do like a movie can resolve them all.
  13. hootie2 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    George Lucas says "Hey Steven, i never told you how much i'd like you to direct one of my Star Wars films."

    Steven Spielberg replies "You told me enough, you said you killed the whole idea of having me EVER direct for you again."

    George Lucas mutters "Steven, I WANT you to be my director!"

    Steven Spielberg shouts "NOOOOOOO! Thats not true! Thats impossible!"

    George remarks "Join me Steven, i will complete your knowledge of C.G.I and together our movie will Break the domestic sales record of The Titanic!"

    Steven Spielberg says "i'll never join you.......Unless you do the C.G.I on ET2"
  14. sr_spielbergo Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2002
    who cares whether minority report has plot holes? its a bad movie either way. a long boring movie. not inspired.
  15. cratylus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2001
    star 2
    I for one am really very happy that Spielberg did not direct AOTC. It had enough hugs in it already.
  16. Bresson Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 3
    I have no idea if CLONES would've been a better movie with Spielberg behind the megaphone, but I'm almost certain the love story would have been more emotional and down to earth.

    (and since that was the lightning rod this time around for bashers, I guess, yes, he would have made a better movie, for some)
  17. LightBird51 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 2
    Spielberg...Coppola..Tarentino..Lucas..whoever. I'm scaired! There's only one more movie and I want it to be the best! I have the ultimate respect for GL, but maybe he could use some help in the editing and directing dept. I'm so upset, I'm just going to run away and worry.
  18. Duckman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2000
    star 4
    Imagine how awful Shmi's funeral scene would have been if Spielberg had directed. He would have got John Williams to turn up the syrupy music and Anakin would have collapsed to his knees and wailed for five minutes with a closeup to catch every teardrop. :)
  19. Sifo_Dyas Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 11, 2002
    star 1
    Burgess is holding up the little recording glass and looking at it and he could see the image of Ann Lively drowning. So Burgess would have known that she drowned.


    Yeah, but how could Anderton's wife have known that? Also, Burgess is all "What, I've never even heard of this person" but if she knew Anderton had told Burgess about the case, that would have seemed suspicious too, because she would've known he had.

    As for the second instance of Anderton's eyeballs being used to gain access, well, you've got me there. Dramatic liscence.


    -- back to Star Wars...

    Duckman, Spielberg is good at making things emotional, but he doesn't do it in an over-the-top way like you described. If there's one thing AOTC could have done better, it was the emotion. A lot of the scenes that should have been scary/sad/romantic left me feeling cold. IMO, Spielberg definately could've improved the movie in that department.
  20. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    Imagine how awful Shmi's funeral scene would have been if Spielberg had directed. He would have got John Williams to turn up the syrupy music and Anakin would have collapsed to his knees and wailed for five minutes with a closeup to catch every teardrop.

    Considering that Anakin is very human in his emotions, the fact that he can not control them and he is not mindful of them as true Jedi should be, added to the sudden loss of her mother would make this a much more plausible option. Hayden Christensen would have messed it up probably but there we go...
  21. Duckman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2000
    star 4
    I just don't like self-pity in movies. The ending of Schindler's List almost ruined the film. First of all, according to Schindler's widow, he never broke down and cried because he couldn't save more Jewish people. Second, we should sense the tragedy of the situation without being told it.
  22. Mike_Hunt_Returns Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2002
    Ah, Spielberg would have buggered the Star Wars franchise if he directed it. That is all.
  23. SithMacqdor Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2002
    star 2
    Contrary to popular belief Minority Report was not a success. especially by the standards in which we judge Speilberg Movies. Its seems Holly-wood is "more forgiving" to Speilberg than it is to George Lucas.

    George and Spielberg are 2 diff type of directors. Speilberg uses characters to tell a story, George uses scenary and sound.

    No one could do what George had entended with AOTC accept George himself.

    Thats his baby and has been for almost 30 yrs.

  24. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    Minority Report is a fantastic film, infinetely better than AOTC can even dream of being and it will make around $150 million in US and about that number worldwide. Sure it is not a an amzing success; it is, nonetheless, a worthy achievement.
  25. SithMacqdor Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2002
    star 2
    Minority Report better than AOTC, not on your life buddy. Your in the wrong Message Board. LOL Any one whose seen Speilbergs movies in the past realizes he's lost something ever since Dream Works became a reality.

    I gave the movie a C+ . AOTC I gave a A.
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