Spielberg ?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by NyLonathatep, Jun 25, 2002.

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  1. Pooja Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 6
    Pooja, I was being sarcastic.

    My bad.

    "I really like it how the concept of "movies" has degraded over the years. It's not like we go to the theater to be entertained anymore. It's ALL about acting and dialogue"

    Good acting and dialogue may not guarantee entertainment, but bad acting and dialogue certainly guarantees boredom.


    In that case, Episodes IV-VI were basically asleep.
  2. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    there are plenty of movies intended to be entertaining that are great movies.

    aliens, T2, and raiders come to mind.

    "I really like it how the concept of "movies" has degraded over the years."

    if anything has degraded movies over the years, its viewers settling for less quality in their entertainment. just because a film is made for the purpose of entertainment doesnt mean good acting and dialogue need to be thrown out the window. is AOTC for entertainment or is it a deeply complex treatise on the inner political workings of a government? personally i dont think its either one, as neither one of these elements is strong in AOTC. yes they are there, but just because it contains the elements does not make it involving, entertaining, intriguing or interesting.

    oh and thanks for calling me ignorant. next time try arguing a point with meaning. name calling just makes it clear you have no response.
  3. Pooja Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 6
    there are plenty of movies intended to be entertaining that are great movies.

    aliens, T2, and raiders come to mind.


    Aliens, T2, and Raiders are excellent movies. But is the writing better than AOTC? It's all a matter of opinion.

    "I really like it how the concept of "movies" has degraded over the years."

    if anything has degraded movies over the years, its viewers settling for less quality in their entertainment. just because a film is made for the purpose of entertainment doesnt mean good acting and dialogue need to be thrown out the window.


    I didn't say throw them out the window, I merely said that they aren't that incredibly important, in my opinion.

    oh and thanks for calling me ignorant. next time try arguing a point with meaning. name calling just makes it clear you have no response.

    Well the thing you said about how AOTC wasn't good because it wasn't on that list WAS very ignorant of you. I give credit when credit is due.
  4. Darth_SMITTIUS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2002
    star 1
    DrEvazan, just to get one thing straight, you are NOT the last word in the entertainment world. Yes, you might be God, but I really don't give a rats rosy rear end what you think. If you weren't entertained, that doesn't mean that a movie is not entertaining.

    I was EXTREMELY entertained with episodes 1 and 2. I had some of the best movie going experiences of my life with those films. My opinion means just as much as yours, and I say that SW PT is VERY entertaining. As for AOTC being on the bottom of the IMDB list, that there are 200 better movies, I don't think you understand the scope of this thing. Do you know how many movies there are? MILLIONS! For AOTC, a silly sci-fi b-movie fantasy with an extra dose of cheese, to make that list and be one of the BEST 250 MOVIES EVER MADE, says a lot more than you think!

    Get outside the house once and awhile and you might find that there are these things called PEOPLE who just happen to enjoy SW. If you don't then thats your problem. But I WILL NOT stand by idly as you turn this innocent thread into a basher gusher war. If SW is not your thing, then don't ruin the experience for the rest of us!

    Oh yeah, and on topic, I think GL is a great director, and he deserves to direct these movies. They are his creation afterall.
  5. Merton9999 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 1
    MadMardigan:
    Your potatoes and garlic bread analogy is clever and is probably true for many people, but not for me.

    Don't get me wrong - I'll take all the garlic bread I can stuff in my face - my point of disension not that I don't want the bread, it's that I don't think more time on script and more direction to actors is necessarily akin to the potatoes and the bread in AOTC.

    If AOTC is a steak, I would say it this way:
    more time on script = salmon filet
    more direction to actors = tartar sauce

    Although I love salmon and tartar sauce, I want to enjoy them separately, not when I already have steak. They don't really complement the main course.

    To me, Lucas' steak is his ability to tell a memorable and universal story that speaks to all ages throughout all eras using imaginitive creatures, breathtaking landscapes, color, music, costumes and melodrama from Flash Gordon, B-movies and movie musicals. These things stick in my mind more than any actor's performance or any line of dialog.

    Script and acting are great, but they have their place. Most movies, like Spielberg's, need them. That's not a bad thing, it's just different. I love a good performance when I see it in a drama or comedy. But, for instance, nobody says that Schindlers List was disappointing because it wasn't funny enough.

    We understand that comedy has no place in Schindler's List, but then we make an assumption that witty and intelligent writing and realistic acting performances are always necessary. I think people who say this are just trying to sound smart. Or they're trained by the vast sea of movies that are not taking the approach Lucas is. Critics are primarily writers themselves, not artists, so the writing and the ability to act out that writing are naturally what they look for.

    I know I risk sounding ignorant, but I think that having everything in a movie often forces some aspects to outshine others. I don't want anything, especially Spielberg, to interfere with the visual splendor, both raw and deeply meaningful, of Star Wars. Lucas says he wants it to be able to tell its story if you have the volume on mute. This can't happen if he spends more time on the script and more time directing the actors, and certainly not if Spielberg directs it.

    AI: The last scene painfully tells me more than I want to know with a ton of boring dialog that intrudes on a very powerful image of the blue fairy. The look of the final scene was neat but not moving.

    AOTC: Without a single ounce of dialog, I am filled with dread by an image of a manufactured army so vast it ecplises the overpowering metropolis it marches in, by a moody orange sky reminiscent of an evil moment from ESB and ominous in itself, and by the disguised evil puppet master standing high, surveying all of it. The only acting Jimmy Smits needs to do is bang a frustrated hand on the balcony, and the imagery does the rest.
  6. darth_pooh Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2002
    star 4
    "it's not the years...it's the mileage"

    "bad date"

    "It's like a radio antenna to god"..."You wanna talk to god, let's go see him together."

    "aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?"

    "This little girl survived a lot longer than 17 days"..."Well why don't you put her in charge!"...

    "I guess she didn't like the cornbread either!"

    "Hey Vasquez, have you ever been mistaken for a man"..."No, have you?"

    "what are we supposed to use...harsh language?"

    "I've seen moonbeams glitter in the dark near the tanhauser gate...attackships on fire off the shoulder of orion, all these moments, will be lost, in time, like tears...in rain..."

    "those aren't your memories..."

    "I'm not in the mood"...."Mood? Mood? Mood is for music and loveplay, arm yourself"

    "my name is a killing word"

    "I'll be back"

    "history is made at night, and character is what you are in the dark"

    "we are all animals, My lady"


    ...i don't know...I probably butchered all those lines, but they were pretty good in the context of those movies. Hard to think that no one can come up with similar ones lately. :confused:


  7. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    amen, darth_pooh!

    Darth_SMITTIUS
    "If you weren't entertained, that doesn't mean that a movie is not entertaining."

    and if you were entertained, that doesn't mean it is entertaining as you are not the last word either.

    i could give two poops about basher vs gusher. i want good movies and george is not making them IMO.

    the rest are willing to settle for whatever george does.

    too bad for them.


  8. Darth_SMITTIUS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2002
    star 1
    Right on, Merton! Finally, we have reached a solution to our problem.

    I have always loved Lucas' visuals. Nearly every shot in a SW movie is stunning or meaningful in some fashion. And we should all remember, SW is an opera, it is meant to be told with music and visuals, period. They throw in dialogue because it just wouldn't feel right for an action-drama like SW to not have dialogue.

    Great images from Lucas will always stick in my mind. Luke and Leiga valiantly leaping across a crevice in the Death Star. The Death Star rising over Yavin like an ill-omened full moon. A loving father torn by hatred reaching out to his battered son and this same father deciding at the last moment to end all the strife in the galaxy by destroying his own master. Even though GL didn't direct it, I LOVED that scene in ROTJ. I knew exactly what Vader's facial expression would be. Now THATS a powerful visual, when we can SEE and FEEL the change in a character even when they are entombed in a mask like Vader.

    As for the rebuke of SW's entertainment value, I would have to say "to each his own". I, and a rather large portion of the world's population, am swept away every time I see a Star Wars film. It is simple on the outside, but always has an extra layer if I feel thoughtful enough to look for it. SW can be enjoyed on so many different levels that it is mind boggling. I really feel sorry for the people who refuse to or cannot see this. The critics need to learn that there is a lot more to a film than the sequence of images and sounds in the theatre. The emotion is the real clencher, and SW has emotion in spades.
  9. Darth_SMITTIUS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2002
    star 1
    No, too bad for you, DrEvazan. I think GL has been making good movies. Don't write me off as a brainwashed fanboy just because I happen to enjoy a film. You don't enjoy Lucas' works, and you certainly don't have to. Everybody has faults, but if Lucas' faults really turn you off to a movie, then you absolutely do not have to enjoy it. At least you said "in my opinion" this time.

    I know I am not the last word, but I know what I like, as you do. I hate these stereotypical images the so-called bashers make up to explain someone who enjoys a SW PT film. Just because I was entertained by the PT doesn't mean that I am pleased with anything GL makes.

    I just happen to like a movie that you don't. That does not make me an uncultured fan who only wants to kiss GL's hairy butt. SW is GL's story, and he tells it the way he wants to. I respect that and enjoy seeing his vision brought to the screen. I don't care if it isn't perfect, I go to the movies to be entertained, and GL delivers, IMO.

    We all don't have to like every movie that is made, but just because some people don't like a movie doesn't mean that the director is bad, he just doesn't suit your tastes. Again, to each his own. I am not saying that my word is final, I am just tired of people writing off celebrated directors just because they disagree with his latest works. No one is bashing Spielburg just because AI was not to their liking, afterall.
  10. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    just to clarify...

    by no means was i referring to ANH ESB or ROTJ in my posts... those are all highly entertaining, quality films and i totally agree in the case of those films as being great.

    "Great images from Lucas will always stick in my mind. Luke and Leiga valiantly leaping across a crevice in the Death Star. The Death Star rising over Yavin like an ill-omened full moon. A loving father torn by hatred reaching out to his battered son and this same father deciding at the last moment to end all the strife in the galaxy by destroying his own master. Even though GL didn't direct it, I LOVED that scene in ROTJ. I knew exactly what Vader's facial expression would be. Now THATS a powerful visual, when we can SEE and FEEL the change in a character even when they are entombed in a mask like Vader."

    YES YES YES! absolutley. im referring to TPM and AOTC and i think its interesting you didnt choose moments for either one of those movies to show what makes star wars great.

    i cant really think of any scenes from TPM or AOTC that match up to the greatness of the first three produced films of the star wars saga. thats my point.

    i think that people are settling for what they get with TPM and AOTC, even if its just not up to par.


  11. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    i think that people are settling for what they get with TPM and AOTC, even if its just not up to par.

    Would people please stop saying crap like this? So now anybody who likes the latest additions to the Star Wars saga are now fans of sub par cinema? Please! Just because you don't like the prequel films is no reason to patronize and insult those of us who do!

    And there are plenty of visual moments in the new films, but they are less easily recalled only because they haven't been with us for 20 years. But the moments are there. What about a grief stricken queen surverying a hostile invasion of her city, one that she is powerless to prevent? What about a smug Supreme Chancellor who manipulated his way to power calmy watching the body of one of his enemies burn on a funeral pyre? What about a son's deep anguish giving way to uncontrollable rage as his mother dies in his arms?

    There are dozens of other compelling visual moments. You just have to take your blinders off to see them.
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