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Lit Split in Two: Lugija's try to get through the Clone Wars

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Lugija, Jul 14, 2013.

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  1. Lugija

    Lugija Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Oct 3, 2009
    This thread is dedicated to all those brave people who have taken a portion of the timeline (or all of it, dear Waru!) and decided to go through it. I should have better luck than you. After all, I have come from the birth of the Republic to the eve of the Clone Wars (through the deep bogs of 32 BBY), I think I can handle this in a couple of years or something.

    The Clone Wars have fascinated me since I was a little boy, when the hype for RotS was in its strongest and I made cool curved sword hilts like Dooku had. I had absolutely no idea that the EU had already mapped out the war, little of it ever got to the Northern Europe. The novelization of Episode III mentioned battles such as Jabiim, the Visual Dictionary hinted at a sweet backstory for Grievous and the movie itself had a mention of Cato Neimoidia and how it didn't count.

    After some years I found out that there are a lot of stuff written and drawn of the war, and my curiosity has grown all the time. I feel that this period of three years is the climax of the last thousand years, the event everything before it has led to. The greatest heroes and the worst villains battling it out. The last act on the stage of the Republic, with the revenge of the Sith as the script. The end starts now.

    This is this thread:
    Born from a moment’s inspiration, something to write down my comments. Don’t except a lot of commentary or deep thoughts, I’m not going to write more than a couple of quick ideas of any work. I’ll try to have some words of timeline*, but nothing to the level of 2ndQuest’s 24-thread. It is also likely that I won’t get every source, especially short stories or RPG stuff, but in those moments I will charm Wookieepedia as best as I can.

    *I’ll be using @HEDGESMFG's “L-canon”-timeline. Think of this as a test drive.

    Anyway, here we go. But since you can’t start chronicling the war from the first fired shot, let’s look at first the situation years and months before the war.

    A thousand years ago the last Sith were hunted down and defeated. But one survived and started a small order with a rule of only two people at one time. Of course everyone tried to cheat about that rule.

    Over eight hundred years ago a Muppet named Yoda was born to the planet of Whills, and was exiled some time later for trying to fix others’ grammar[citation needed]. He went on to become the Big Boss of the Jedi Order, and completely stopped any progress inside the Order.

    45 years ago, a banker named Hego Damask is lured to teach the devil how to be evil, and is played like a puppet for the next 35 years.

    22 years ago a Jedi Gardener named Obi-Wan Kenobi becomes a padawan of Qui-Gon Jinn. Hijinks ensue.

    20 years ago, a banker and the devil rip the Force a new one, and unrelatedly a woman named Shmi Skywalker starts to feel sick in the mornings.

    11 years ago, the Trade Federation starts to act aggressively and create its own army. The Neimoidians secure their grip on the company. The Black Sun leadership is killed, likely in an accident.

    10 years ago, The Battle of Naboo, the first death of Darth Maul and the death of Qui-Gon, some nobody named Anakin is found and made a padawan of Obi-Wan so the latter won’t evolve a drinking problem, Palpatine becomes the leader of the Republic, Sifo-Dyas orders a clone army and dies, probably in an accident. Count Dooku signs off from the Jedi Order and registers to the Sith. Jango Fett tries to explain to authorities that he doesn’t know where Boba came from, he’s just raising him. Every Jedi of importance visits Tatooine.

    8 years ago, a former Jedi Aurra Sing murders Jedi and is almost captured. Quinlan “Feel the Force, ladies” Vos becomes a Jedi Master, and his padawan Aayla Secura a knight.

    7 years ago, Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker get stoned while looking for a lost Jedi and her three-edged sword. Sienar shows balls to Tarkin who goes on to show them to Palpatine while being generally racist.

    5 years ago, the ship that was meant to go to the next galaxy gets shot down just as it steps out of a door. Whispers of separatism are heard in the politician’s speeches.

    2 years ago, Count Dooku says that the Senate doesn’t work. Most people just say “Duh”, but still The Confederacy of Indepedent Systems is born.

    3 months ago, Ando and Sy Myrth secede from the Republic and their senators Po Nudo and Toobuck Toora leave the Senate. Palpatine announces the date of the Military Creation Vote as 5:16.

    2 months ago, Carm Bel Iblis closes Corellian’s borders and leaves the Senate. Points out that he’s definitely not seceding or rebelling. Palpatine summons Dooku to a negociation, he doesn’t arrive. Disappointed Palpatine goes to visit the factory area of the Works. A week later a Loyalist Committee is formed.

    1 month ago, a Jedi Council member Adi Gallia and her sentient hat test a new Jedi Starfighter and go to a mission with Nym the Pirate with Pants. Meanwhile a border dispute on Ansion could destroy the entire Republic and a team of Jedi have to race against time while the entire wildlife of the planet tries to get them.

    This is where I will stop this timeline, because we are at a point where I start going source by source. Why at this point, in Approaching Storm, and not when the movie itself starts? Because I re-read that novel-sized novella and by Waru I want to tell you about it! As a form of therapy! So you better listen!

    Tomorrow. You have been warned. The shroud of the Dark Side has fallen.

    Something for you to think about while you anxiously wait:
    Why is there no novel or comic of the Separatist Crisis? Besides the stuff above that I copied from the Holonet News and few lines in sourcebooks there is nothing on the chaotic years before the war. With the Galactic Civil War we have a lot of information on both sides and their origins, but the CIS has always had little background. We should keep in mind that The Trade Federation only started supporting it a few days before AotC, so the attitude that the Seppies are just the TF with allies doesn't work (especially with the TCW mess).
  2. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 6

    Oct 29, 2005
    That there was, and most likely will never be, a novel chronicling the rise of the Separatists has been a big bone of contention among EU fans for a while. I mean, we got one for the Naboo Crisis. What did we get instead? The Approaching Storm, one of the most misleading titles ever.
  3. Valin__Kenobi

    Valin__Kenobi Author: Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Praji star 4 VIP

    Mar 30, 2004
    A year ago I was confident we'd get one sooner or later. We actually even got two for TPM, if you count Plagueis turning into that to tie into the 3D rerelease. Now that the PT is wrapped up and TCW (at the time) in full swing, it seemed like the right point to wrap it all together *coughLucenocough*, Photoshop some TCW stills on the cover so the kiddies will buy it, and call it good.

    But now with the ST sweeping aside all before it, it seems ... unlikely.
  4. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Sep 29, 2005
    We got three, really -- DMSH is tied-in enough to the origins of the crisis that I'd argue it counts.

    But I want a Dooku-heavy Separatist Crisis novel so bad I could spit. TAS technically ties in, but it just . . . doesn't do its job at all in that regard. All the AOTC origins tie-in stuff went back ten years to do Jango and the clone army, and then just completely ignored everything else. With a movie that's already the weakest in the trilogy in terms of bad lead-in and loose ends, it's criminal that nothing has been done to build it up.
  5. Valin__Kenobi

    Valin__Kenobi Author: Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Praji star 4 VIP

    Mar 30, 2004
    This. Times 100.

    True story. In many ways AOTC is actually the strongest of the three in terms of concept, but in execution ... ouch.
  6. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Nov 28, 2000
    Well, a lot of people have been advocating a sequel of sorts to Plagueis -- it could do for AOTC what the former did for TPM. Ideally the focus would be on Dooku, since enough damage was already done to Palpatine in Plagueis that I'd rather see him kept out (sadly!) unless Luceno promised to find a way to satisfyingly explain Ederlathh Pallopides (and not using the Wookieepedia mistress theory, please!) and finally use Ars Dangor :p .

    So this hypothetical Dooku would I guess trace Dooku's departure from the Jedi Order, what he did after that, how the separatist movement began, etc. That's essentially what we want, right?
  7. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Sep 29, 2005
    I think, ideally, it would be a COD-style political thriller focused on the Separatist Crisis, with both the Palpatine administration and Dooku playing significant roles, and the details of what Dooku did in the past would be best reserved for flashbacks and recollections from Dooku, since I think the timeline-spanning biography novel isn't the best format to try to do everything in.
  8. Valin__Kenobi

    Valin__Kenobi Author: Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Praji star 4 VIP

    Mar 30, 2004

    Ahem. I mean yes.
  9. TalonCard

    TalonCard •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff star 5 VIP

    Jan 31, 2001
    Hey, who moved my prunes?!

  10. Valin__Kenobi

    Valin__Kenobi Author: Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Praji star 4 VIP

    Mar 30, 2004
    Sorry, what was that again?

    JackG, Barriss_Coffee and TalonCard like this.
  11. Kay Suhyun

    Kay Suhyun Jedi Youngling star 1

    Apr 29, 2013
  12. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jul 24, 2005
    Cloak of Deception.
  13. Lugija

    Lugija Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Oct 3, 2009
    Do want.

    Anyway, let's move on.

    Attack of the Clones prologue: Anakin has a nightmare of his mother turning into class and breaking into pieces, from which he wakes up to a larger nightmare. “Ansion!” Obi-Wan calls.

    The Approaching Storm: This novel has been bisected many times before, so I won't go into singing Anakin or thesaurus rampage or Luminara jumping around in underwear...

    As pointed out above, The Naboo Crisis has three prequel-novels, two of them written by Luceno, which together give us a very good background on the heroes, the villains (Neimoidians FTW!) and the politics surrounding the events. What does the Separatist Crisis, the eve of the biggest war in a thousand years have? This novel. What does it tell us of the crisis?

    Shu Mai is the acting villain of the story, with Dooku above and Soergg under her, and the novel spends some time following her plots and thoughts. But the thing is, they are boring. Whereas the Neimoidians were deliciously campy, she is your generic political villain, talks about opportunities, markets and how there is a big plan she is a part of. There is nothing interesting about her, unlike for example San Hill and my fanon-interpretation of him as a Batman villain.

    The importance of Ansion is mentioned many times, first by Shu Mai: “This magnificently saccharine scheme works because no one can predict the implications of Ansion seceding from the Republic! Buhah... no wait, I'm too boring for malicious laughing-sound.” Then in the next chapter, by Luminara: “We have to stop Ansion from seceding because duh, its allies would secede as well. Everybody knows that.” That is our only glimpse of the Separatist crisis. The entire plot is that Dooku has ordered Shu Mai to secretly ensure that Ansion leaves the Republic, and in the end the holo-Dooku says that this loss doesn't mean anything, they have bigger fishes to fry. This is like an episode of TCW but spread over an entire novel.

    Perhaps I could talk about the corporations becoming aggressive background-members of the CIS. Dooku negotiates with the leaders of the major megacorps on Geonosis, but how many of those leaders he already had on his payroll during the crisis? Shu Mai has worked for him as this novel shows, but doesn't promise a formal declaration of alliance even on Geonosis. She seems to want to work in secret (or did Dooku order her to act that way in the meeting?). San Hill and Wat Tambor were in the whole Grievous plot two years ago. We could look at the Geonosis meeting later, but suddenly I have a feeling that a lot of it was scripted by Dooku.

    Hah, checking from the novel, Obi-Wan has the same thought.

    The Approaching Storm ends about two weeks before the beginning of the AotC. Holonet News has a great article about the events, especially the quotes from Sourgg: "He was a being of pronounced and lamentable instabilities whom I hired on occasion to provide the downtrodden soul a sense of purpose and opportunity. It saddens me that his tether to sanity was so atrophied." Almost makes the novel worth it.

    Oh yes, I should perhaps mention Barriss. Does the novel have any “clues” of her dark side? Well, she keeps calm with Tooqui and takes him with her, which certainly gives her dark side points in my opinion.

    And one more thing: Pages and pages of description of Ansion's nature, people, nature, animals... and the planet is never visited again. Ever.

    Attack of the Clones Chapters 1-3: During the Ansion dispute Shmi gets captured by the Tusken raiders, and Cliegg loses a leg while trying to get her back. Padmé visits her sister and is teased about never settling down (“You are 24, woman, where are your royal kids?”). Panaka informs her that the safety measures have been raised because of the trouble the space miners are causing. For more information on the subject, check the Holonet News article. The space miners cause trouble because they can't use the Theed space ports, because they are full of refugees whose planets have seceded from the Republic.

    Just before leaving for the Military Creation Vote she hears that Gunray has joined Dooku's separatists. I assume that this is the exact date when Dooku hires Jango to kill Padmé. Gunray must have witnessed the holocall. Interesting that he says days later that he won't sign anything before Padmé is dead. Dooku's thoughts must have been in smashing the desk with Gunray's head at that point. You already went public with the alliance, so why not sign it?

    In my next larger post I will likely talk about the novelization. Don't except anything about the Anakin/Padmé chapters, my mind is in other stuff.
  14. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Oct 23, 2004
    Soergg is beyond awesome anyway, if the Seps had given him the Droid Army instead of Griv they properly would have done a lot better, though I guess for them to fail was the point anyway.
  15. Lugija

    Lugija Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Oct 3, 2009
    There would have been less dead Jedi, but the threats would change from "Aaargg, I'll kill you!" to "I'm going to change your state of being from breathing to deceaded in the following moments determined by the situation. Arg."
    MercenaryAce likes this.
  16. Lugija

    Lugija Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Oct 3, 2009
    NO UPDATE, still reading AotC.

    Plaristes, you posted quite big a list of sources happening during TPM here, a list like I have not seen anywhere else. Do you have same kind of list for AotC? While there can't be as much tie-in-material for this one as there was for The Non-Phantom Hype, there must be at least some children books and RPG adventures.
    But if you don't have a list anywhere close, no need to rewrite it. It is likely that I can't get hold on the more obscure works anyway.
  17. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Sep 2, 2012
    I want to see a Dooku novel creating the CIS and looking at some of the crisis' before AOTC.
    mes520 likes this.
  18. Plaristes

    Plaristes Jedi Master star 3

    Jul 2, 2007
    I could put together a list, but I don't have one already made.
  19. Lazy Storm Trooper

    Lazy Storm Trooper Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 18, 2012
    I am sorry. But can someone explain to me what this thread is about?
  20. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    If you think it might be useful, I can pass along my (sadly incomplete) day by original Clone Wars timeline (the actual thread's posts are probably truncated but i still have the RTF file). It's missing some stuff (and turns out to be off by one day for the date of the Battle of Geonosis based on the Atlas, though i think i started to adjust for that before i abandoned the project) but has some useful info like how the Starfighter game interweaves with the young Boba and AOTC days, etc.
  21. Lugija

    Lugija Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Oct 3, 2009
    The2ndQuest, I'll put that in use. Plaristes, no need, I found TFN:s timeline, which has a lot of tie-in-stuff for AOTC (but the placement of Anakin's knighting at 2 months ABG makes me cringe. I like it as far away as possible, 9 months at least.)

    Good question. I'm not sure myself, but like the galaxy, its purpose is split in two.
    1) I'll try to go through the Clone Wars in chronological order, reading and watching all the sources I can get and then commenting on them on this thread, or
    2) speak generally about whatever is on my mind while reading.

    Example of both options in action:
    Attack of the Clones, Chapters 4-15: I really like Jango and Zam's relationship so it's sad how she dies and how in the adaptations the focus is every time simply on "Oh, a mysterious armored man just shot our informer. Too bad". Jang Fett just had to shoot Zam Wesell! He'll cry the whole way back to Kamino!

    Reading about Padmé's visit to her parents and then reading from Plagueis how Palpatine planned her rise to the throne makes quite an uneasy read. But then Luceno makes ten references to things I just read about and I feel good again.

    Trade Federation has got away scot-free with attacking and conquering a planet. Let's see how it happened:
    - In the end of the Episode I, Gunray and Haako are taken as captives to Coruscant, and Panaka of all people gives the positive farewell: "I think you can kiss your trade franchise good-bye."
    - In Rogue Planet Tarkin informs Sienar that Palpatine has taken a stand and ordered the TF security forces disbanded. Some of those ships and droids join Republic's forces. Trade Federation dissolves Baktoid Armor Workshop but transfer the designs and facilities to other Baktoid companies.
    - In Outbound Flight Doriana speaks with Viceroy Siv Kav of how Darth Sidious betrayed the TF but how judiciaries haven't yet punished the company. I guess that the whole "disbanding security forces" didn't happen as planned or Gunray simply complained to a higher court before it had any effect.
    - In the Episode II novelization Sio Bibble complains that after four trials Gunray is still the leader of the TF. Queen Jamillia says that the company's forces are ordered to be limited (not disbanded?). Anakin says that it has not happened, and the Jedi have not been let to check the forces as it would "harm the economy".

    While Rogue Planet's view of post-TPM Trade Federation is off (simply because of no information about AOTC), it actually fits well. Palpatine orders the first court's decision so Tarkin can get the Trade Federation ships and then the case goes to a higher court. And higher and higher, until the result is a sad compromise that doesn't punish Gunray or actually affect the company, especially since the Jedi don't get to supervise the execution.
  22. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Jul 22, 2010
    Attack of the Clones desperately, desperately needs a COD/Plagueis style novel; you know, something that somehow manages to improve it.
    GrandMasterKatarn likes this.
  23. Skywalker8921

    Skywalker8921 Jedi Knight star 4

    Jun 9, 2011
    Definitely yes. We've gotten Plagueis, Cloak of Deception, Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter, and now Darth Maul: Lockdown pre TPM, but the post TPM/pre AOTC period is still sadly lacking in novels. The last was Outbound Flight and that was six years ago.
  24. Lugija

    Lugija Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Oct 3, 2009

    Attack of the Clones, Chapter 16: A short update, but the "Obi-Wan, meet the clones" -chapter needs its own musings.

    Sifo-Dyas saw the coming war and ordered the Clone Army, funding it with money from Damask Holdings. Dooku murdered him, erased Kamino from the Jedi Archives, hired Jango and sent him to Kamino. That's how it happened ("Or did it?" -Filoni) but there are still some questions.

    "Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas is still a leading member of the Jedi Council, is he not?" Was he ever? He's not in any Jedi Council roosters, especially not in ones during and before Episode I (Would it have been cool to re-name Yaddle to Sifo-Dyas?). Then again he could have simply lied to give himself more gravitas. The Kaminoans could hardly check his claim.

    Hey, would it be cool to have a novel showing these events first-hand?

    Not wanting to step on a beehive, but with the way Lama Su talks about "200 000 units ready and a million more on the way", I got the impression that the million units are ones that are still 0-9 years old. Most of them wouldn't even see the war. That's why "unit" couldn't mean a single clone. But I don't actually care about the numbers, let's say there were πx10^6 clones if it's all the same to you. And once the war started, I believe that the Kaminoans made the new patches faster to grow, perhaps even in a year (I think that was the time you could grow non-Force-sensitives without the risk of them going crazy?) so the scales between the droids and the clones were at balance through the war (but the quickly grown wouldn't have been as elite as the 10-year-olds, especially in the marksmanship).
  25. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Sep 2, 2012
    Shatterpoint went with "1.2 million clones" in the early stages of the war.

    And when Obi-Wan tells him about it in the AoTC novel, Mace says "A million clone warriors?" and Obi-Wan says "Yes".
    GrandMasterKatarn and Gorefiend like this.
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