SPOILERS: Clone Wars edited tgther would have made a better entry to the prequel trilogy than TPM

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Joeykin_Starrunner, Mar 26, 2005.

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  1. Joeykin_Starrunner Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 1
    After watching all of the Clone Wars cartoons, chapters 1 to 25, I was struck with an epiphany. With minor tweaks, and transplanted to live action, the story told in the Clone Wars cartoons would have made a better entry to the prequel trilogy than the Phantom Menace.

    Let me explain...and keep in mind that this is all hypothetical of course...

    What we now know as Episode Two: Attack of the Clones would have come out first and have been called The Phantom Menace. The events that transpired in the real Phantom Menace could have been covered in a few lines of exposition. If it turned out to be TOO much backstory to cover, then the events of the (real) Phantom Menace could have been simplified, or, the backstory revelations could have been spilt up over the first two movies. Examples where the backstory could have been divulged are: in the opening scenes where Anakin and Obi Wan are guarding Padme in her apartment...that was a perfect time for them to talk about the Naboo battle, and the effect that Qui Gon had on their lives; also, the Obi Wan/Mace/Yoda scene in the Jedi Temple hallway could have been extended to reveal more backstory. One area that could have covered the backstory immensely, and would have benefitted from it would have been Anakin and Padme's scenes. Think about it...it would have fit in perfectly for Anakin and Padme to talk about their past, and the events of the Naboo blockade ten years ago. And wouldn't it have been more signifigant to see Anakin talk to her about the propehcy that he is supposedly meant to fulfill, and the pressures of dealing with being the "Chosen One", than rolling around in the grass, or using cheesy pick up lines like "Everything is smooth here"...? Or, new scenes could have been added, to cover some of these backstory issues. Sure the movie would have been a little longer, but us fans wouldn't have complained, am I right fans? =) So again, with some minor tweaking, the story told in Episode Two would have made a more suitable Episode One. Which leads us to:

    Episode Two: Attack of the Clones, which would tell the same exact story that the Clone Wars cartoons told, with the same exact battle choreography, except in live action. I think with a few minor tweaks, this could have worked. Watching Vol.1 again on DVD, and seeing how smooth the whole thing seemed upon being edited together, and then seeing how VOL 2 picked up right where VOL 1 ended, showed me how great the story arc flowed as a whole. Not to mention that the story arc covered some pretty important stuff...Anakin being chipped away by the Dark Side (his battle with Asajj, the vision he received in the cave, the way he continually abused his powers esp. at the end, and how he "failed" the test of self awareness), the subtle development of key relationships like Anakin/Obi Wan and Anakin/Amidala, seeing all the battles that made these heroes into legends, Dooku revealing the location of the Jedi Temple and dueling with Grievous, Anakin being made a Jedi knight, all the humor and Original Trilogy references (both visual and verbal), even 3PO getting his gold covers...so much incredibly cool info was divulged. The most important of these being the subtle way that Anakin is showed succumbing to the Dark Side over the course of the story. It would have flowed perfectly from the end of AOTC'S storyline. AND OF COURSE...how amazing would it have been to see all those battle scenes in live action? Sure it would've been the most expensive movie ever made, but hey, George coulda handled it I think =). I can even see the last scene too...Obi Wan talking to Anakin aboard the ship...Anakin tells him he failed to know himself...they get the distress call from Coruscant...Anakin runs off to muster the troops...Obi Wan looks after him worriedly...cut to Wide Shot, camera slowly pulls out, Obi Wan's back to the camera as the soldiers hustle to get to their ships...BAM IRIS OUT, STAR WARS MAIN THEME, CREDITS. WHAT A CLIFF HANGER!! I think it could work.

    Of course, as I said before, in order for Clone Wars to completely work
  2. Zizou87 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2005
    I agree...If really do think about it TPM had really nothing to do with the story in the PT at all...
    Exept finding the chosen one and that the sith reveals themselves thier is nothing of importance!

    TPM should had been more about how the separatist starting forming up.
  3. Lord_Of_Sith Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2005
    star 1
    Without TPM the Seperatist movement would make no dramatic sense: after TPM we've *seen* how the Senate has become "bogged down in procedure". You can understand the frustration of 10 years worth of this - *why* so many worlds would want autonomy - if organizations like the Trade Federation can provide services outide of the Republic, what do you need the Republic for?

    2 hours of battles would be boring - it also ruins the Aakin arc: fighting & killing *two* sith is a bit much. One is enough...

    TCW series is very good but it's no Episode 2.1 - just some nice cartooning...
  4. Lukecash Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    Let see....

    No.

    Look you need TPM. This is Anakins story, and that means you have to see the begining. You have to see the galaxy in better times to understand the hell it eventually becomes.

    Without the phantom menance, you would loose all perspective throught the Series for it.

    You need a bright begining... to get darker, until the joy of ewoks defeating the empire.
  5. Master_Gallia Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2004
    star 2
    TPM is the contrast to ROTS. "...Before the dark times. Before the Empire." In order to get a true since of how evil the empire is, we need to see something other than the empire's rule. TPM gives us that visual through Anakin, Jar Jar, Naboo, the ship designs, the senate etc.
  6. bswb Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2000
    star 1
    While I agree that this was a conscious decision by Lucas to make the trilogy about Anakin, NOT the Clone Wars, I think there's simply too much material for three movies. It comes down to this: would you rather have Episode 1 be about Anakin's discovery and the fact that he was taken away as a child, or would you rather have Episode 1 be AOTC and Episode 2 be about his maturation and his relationship with Obi-Wan transition from master/padawan to "brotheres" (to quote Clone Wars).

    I'd personally rather see the latter. I think it makes Anakin a much more likeable, interesting, and sympathetic character, and for dramatic purposes, his fall becomes all the greater. After reading Labyrinth of Evil and watch CW (even though they don't totally sync up), I really understand Anakin's character much more. It's unfortunate that it took the EU to express the character like this, though I expect the first part of ROTS to focus on this.

    The perfect way to do this, of course, would be to have a prequel quadrilogy. ;)
  7. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    This thread already exists in the forum for TPM.
  8. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    I've posted my thoughts in opposition to your idea over in The Phantom Menace Forum.

    There is no NEED to create the same thread TWICE in two different forums.

    -Seldon
  9. Joeykin_Starrunner Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 1
    Why not?

    I wanted to get as many people's feedback as possible, and I figured that posting on more than one forum would grant me that. Some people that visit this forum may not visit others, and I wanted to reach a wide audience. In case you were wondering I've gotten more posts sponsoring my opinion here and in the star wars small screen forum than in the phantom menace forum. Go figure.

    And yes you read that right, I posted in THREE forums overall. You can go check that one out as well if you like.
  10. JohnWesleyDowney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2004
    star 5

    And yes you read that right, I posted in THREE forums overall.

    Yes, and if you'll read the TOS you'll find that's a violation of the rules around here. Most people aren't brazen enough to call attention to the fact that they did it, though.
  11. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 5
    Well, this seems to be becoming the TPM bashing forum instead of the AOTC forums. Some people here need to lighten up.

    Also, your idea is interesting, despite the fact that the Clone Wars cartoons have already defied the continuity of the movies as a whole and their adaptations. And I don't think seing Mace go Kung-fu on SBD's would look good in live action.

    Sorry, move along.
  12. Joeykin_Starrunner Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 1
    Never meant for it to turn into a PM bashing session. I just posted it here cause my hypothetical trilogy involves AOTC directly, so I thought it fit.

    "Also, your idea is interesting, despite the fact that the Clone Wars cartoons have already defied the continuity of the movies as a whole and their adaptations."

    How so?
  13. darth_Boba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2002
    star 4
    Darth Vader had a childhood. Accept it.
  14. BauconBatista Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2004
    star 4
    Darth Vader had a childhood. Accept it.

    O:) Amen O:)

    Oh yeah, posting the same thread on different forums is a TOS violation--boasting about it doesn't help.
  15. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Wanna-be mods aplenty.

    Let the actual moderators do their jobs.
  16. Joeykin_Starrunner Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 1
    Of course Darth Vader had a childhood. And so did you, and me, and heck, so did Luke, and Chewie, and Han Solo, and Greedo, and Jabba the Hutt. Everyone had a childhood.

    Darth Vader is my favorite character, and I was stoked when I found out that the Prequels would divulge his origins.

    However, the Vader childhood WE ARE PRESENTED WITH is not as interesting as the Vader adulthood WE ARE PRESENTED WITH, or shall I say, what leads him to his descension into the Dark Side. Was focusing on his childhood a good idea? Yes. Was it executed well? No...everything involving Anakin in TPM was handled poorly. Thus, while I do not hate TPM, I can never fully connect with it because my favorite character, and the character whom I feel is the focus of this six picture Saga, was not handled well. Thus, AS IS, I could do without it, and make do with another movie that focuses on his degradation just fine (i.e. TCW), knowing full well in the back of my mind that Darth Vader had a childhood, because again, we all did, and could settle simply being told about it, as opposed to seeing a poorly written two hour movie about it. Yes there are cool things to love about TPM (the Senate manipulation, the effects, the duel, seeing the Galaxy in it's pristine form), and I've heard every argument under the sun as to why it needs to exist (the lighter tone needs to balance the darker tone of ROTS, we need to see the roots of the Separatist movement), but to me the BIGGEST reason why it needed to exist was to get me interested in Anankin Skywalker, and in that, it failed. If I was watching these movies chronologically for the first time, then I wouldn't even care about the kid if I didn't know what his future was gonna turn out like. What I found most ineresting about Anakin in TPM could have been summed up in a few lines of dialogue: he was a slave, he has a high midichlorian count, he is a talented pilot, and he has an attachment to things, especially his mother. The Anankin we are given in TPM does not warrant a two hour movie, it's that simple. He's way more interesing in AOTC and CW.

    I never said that focusing on Vader's childhood was a bad idea. If TPM was executed diferently (specifically Anankin) and I was satisfied with it then this post wouldn't exist. I merely meant to say that AS EXECUTED, TCW has a better storyline than TPM, and its main character is handled way better, which is why it would make a better entry into the prequel trilogy. Case closed.
  17. jangoisadrunk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2005
    star 4
    that's just it...he came from humble beginnings, just like the worst of the evil insane military commanders here on earth.

    Seriously, I can't believe you think TCW CARTOON has a better storyline, and does more with the characters that TPM and ATOC. The cartoons have NO CHARACTER DEVELOPEMENT and the dialouge IS SIMPLY FILLER TO GO BETWEEN THE MINDLESS ACTION. Don't get me wrong I like them too, but I do not think they are better than the movies in any, way, shape, or form.
  18. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Joeykinn Starrunner

    I completely agree. People grousing about the need to see him at 9 also miss the point that Lucas then jumps way ahead to depict a completely changed character for AOTC.

    There's now a huge gap where we don't see this stuff happen.

    Some character development. It all occurs off-screen.
  19. Joeykin_Starrunner Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 1
    I never said that CW was better than AOTC. What I said was that it was better than TPM, and it would flow better from the end of AOTC, and the two complement each other more, and that CW would make for a better entry into the trilogy as a live action movie than TPM.

    I think we need AOTC more than we need TPM. AOTC shoulda been Episode 1, and CW shoulda been Episode 2, and they shoulda made the events of PM into the 25 episode cartoon series. That's what I've been saying from the beginning.

    As for the CW cartoon having no character development...it certainly could be built upon, sure, but what we ARE given is way more substantial than the development in TPM. I mean, you don't see Anakin going off alone to fight Asajj and defying Obi Wan yet again as character development? You don't see him defeating her by giving into his anger as character development? What about Episode 21, where Obi Wan actually sticks up for Anakin and says that he should be made a knight, and the subsequent scene where he and Anakin talk about Qui Gonn, and about how Obi Wan feels that Anankin should be made his equal? Or how about that entire episode that centered on Obi Wan and Anakin's relationship on the war front, where they actually joked around with each other, and seemed like comrades, and for once, didn't argue? And then there's the last few episodes, that showed Anakin's Final Jedi Trial of the Spirit. Obi Wan was trying to teach and guide him the entire time. Everything he said strengthened their bond. And then Anakin goes to the cave and receives the vision of himself as Darth Vader. Then he abuses his power once again in freeing the kidnap victims. Then we have the last scene, where Obi Wan is trying to counsel Anakin, and tells him that the greatest test a Jedi must face is knowing himself. And though it is not overtly telegraphed, we plainly see that Anakin is bothered by what he learned about himself in that cave. Anakin saw Vader, and at that point in his life, was actually scared and bothered by the fact that he could turn into that.

    You don't see any of that as character development? Well, I see all that as more substantial and beneficial than anything we learned about Anakin in the entirety of TPM. TCW built on the character we came to know in AOTC, and we see the character development actually happen ON SCREEN, as SHANE pointed out. Anakin is way more interesting as an adult, in my opinion, and that's where the story should have started.
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