*Spoilers* Not whining or anything, but is anyone else disappointed with SbS?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jonah, Oct 31, 2001.

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  1. Quiwan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 4
    I haven't finished it yet, but so far I'm rather impressed. This is from a guy who was just about done with EU when he found out about jimmy. I still don't like the tired after force use stuff, but I certainly like how Luke seems to be moving a little more towards action than just sitting on his butt.
  2. FireFox Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    IS it me or are we just going on and on. Yes the mission to take out the queen was a little weak at points, but how they got in and why was a very sound decision, a strategy that has been used many times before, in that they used a captured enemy ship to slip past known blockades. It was the choice of those who went that must people disagree with, and the fact that Anakin was sacrifised just to make a story that seems to have unified a reading public. So while I'm on the subject, why did they take only two war droids, and where were the short demons of death the Nohgri, the proven best commando squad the galaxy has to offer?
  3. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    Ive been wondering that. Forget on that mission, at all. Is it like the Sith rule? Only two there are, the one to the left of Leia, and the one to the right :)
  4. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Frankly, no, not as half as much as I thought I would be.

    Here's why:

    The NR senators are removed
    Viqi ******** Shesh is decloaked
    Borsk **** Feylya gets his
    Leia all but tells the NR senate to ****** off.
    Bel Iblis, Wedge, Corran, Booster, Rieekan and Lando are all back, and just what does Bel Iblis do best?
    The Vong are given several bloody noses by the newly unified Jedi.
    The new NR and Jedi tactics.

    The elements, among others, that I have despised in NJO most:

    Jedi schism
    Uncaring traitorous republic

    Are whisked off stage. I can imagine the Core systems fortifying, getting decked, screaming for Jedi help at which point Luke decides to say: Screw you! In the way Angel did to a load of WH lawyers. It'd be poetic justice for those worlds.

    Problems remaining:
    Failure to kill off Shesh
    Vergere - a true pain if ever there was one.
    The Vong - remain uninteresting villains but I would like to see how they get genocided, nothing else is really going to suffice.
    Jaina - Elaine Cunningham is going to have work miracles to make me like this brat, she goes dark? Ha! Luke Skywalker went dark properly, so did Kyp Durron. All Jaina has done is kill 1 Vong. Come back when you've killed billions and I may then consider you to be on the dark side.
    Anakin's death-like Chewie's it was not called for by the story.

    All in all, it is similar to BP, removes a lot of flaws, sets up some promise for the future particularly clearing up the info on Allston's story, it is quite clear why Wedge is leading a retreat in it.

    It is not perfect, it never could be as it is an NJO story. I have decided to adopt the Buffy strategy: Yes Buffy series 4 and 5 are not as good as 1-3 but still a lot better than most stuff out there. Same for NJO.

    The real reason I'm staying: Simple, I want to see Luke Han and Leia deck the Vong and they start doing this here, in SBS, finally!

    Regards

    Jedi Ben
  5. ganner_rhysode Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2001
    star 4
    I've read it twice now and loved it...really!

    I'm still disappointed that Anakin died but can't dispute the manner in which it happened. It was exquisitely written.

    The "older" characters were back to their best leading perfectly into what will be the apparently rebellion themed Behind Enemy Lines duology.

    For me the book harked back to the against all odds heroics feel of the OT if a little darker.

    Borsk's redemption, Shesh's multiple failings (surely leading to a nasty comeuppance), Lah perilously close to becoming a shamed one, the ever intriguing character of Vergere, Crispy fried Vong a la Dark Jaina, YVH droids, an unprecedented level of Jedi action, cool new starfighter tactics, a mindblowing cliffhanger...the list of positives is endless for me.

    Fair enough, as with any piece of literature, it has it's flaws, many of which have been eloquently argued over in this thread, it's just that they didn't really detract from the story too much for me.
  6. 181st Fighter Wing Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 8, 2000
    star 2
    For the most part I enjoyed the book, but like many here I find the mission pretty weak. Can't the Vong just breed a new queen? And why wasn't Ganner in charge? He's only the oldest and most experienced Jedi in the group? I also have to agree that Troy's descriptions did get a little vague at times.

    Jonah, glad to se I'm not the only one who is fed up with Nom Anor! His escape from the senate was extremely lame. "Maybe he had a masquer wraped arround his waist". Give me a break. Why wasn't he searched? They searched him the first time! And I supose he had a change of clothes wraped around his waist as well? A naked guy (or a guy in Nom Anor's robe) running out of the Senate chamber would have been a little conspicuous don't you think?

    I thought Ani's death was well done (but I am a bit biased by the fact that I can't stand the Solo brats). Hopefully they won't try to bring him back somehow. I also liked the battle scenes and the fact that the Republic now knows how to fight the Vong and win.

    Overall the best NJO hardcover so far, I give it a 7 out of 10.
  7. Grand_High_Knome Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2001
    I found this book was the turning point. I mean for the last few books the New Republic was just getting pounded. Now they have had a few victories.
  8. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    I admit the plot was extremely flimsy but no offense do you honestly believe that the entire Galactic fleet could have attacked this place?

    The Worldship was Death Star sized....my guess is while the Vong ship could sneak in any other would be reduced to dust by what is stationarily speaking one of the most powerful vessels in the galaxy
  9. -Vergere- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2001
    star 4
    I disagree. i believe the Jedi mission was very acceptable. Here's why I trust in the mission's plausibility in the early stages of its inception:
    1. Many Jedi had already fallen prey to the voxyn prompting a sense of urgency not unlike many fans' disappointment over the Jedi and NR to do something about the YV. Basically, the Jedi are damned if they do something and damned if they don't. And if they do decide to do something, they must all survive unscathed, especially anyone major. If any major character deaths do occur and other Jedi do fall, it is contrived. If everything works to perfection with a few minor setbacks (i.e., non-major character deaths), it is also contrived. Am I reading you right here? Can DR & LFL appease the interests of everyone reading this? Certainly not.
    2. A few of the Jedi dying at the hands of the voxyn were close friends of the mission's constituents, the mission's leader being the most notable.
    3. Sooner or later, someone would have to kill the voxyn queen. First of all, to attack the worldship in the manner you are suggesting (ala Rebirth), the Jedi would have to coordinate a broad-based effort requiring the services of every availabe Jedi. Should all the Jedi concentrate their complete efforts in eliminating a threat targeting themselves specifically rather than saving the Taflogian refugees? And if so, are they not failing to fulfill their duty as Jedi defenders? And if not, are they not risking more refugees and hostages? And what is the time frame involved here? I mean assuming a large Jedi force can penetrate the YV "line" undetected, can they feasibly destroy a worldship and return with minimal causalties and return to saving the refugees also? Wow a real perfect galaxy indeed. And would the NR military aid an effort designed to subside a threat targeting a few Jedi rather than help thousands of refugees? I don't think so. Anakin's plan clearly presented the best possible course of action to take against the voxyn at that point in time. If things go askew, we tend to criticize it - if they succeed, we applaud it.


    Now, here's how the mission transpires:
    1. The strike team's first plan was to destroy the Banuu Miir through the air rather than actually land on the worldship. Remember Anakin feels Force wielders within the worldship which forces the strike team to switch to plan b and use its firepower against another YV ship. Anakin must try to save those Jedi first.
    2. Also recall that quite a few circumstances turn awry for our Jedi heroes before even they land on the worldship which leads them on different paths. They had certainly not anticipated the YV to be waiting for them as they were due to Vergere alerting Tsavong Lah about Jedi tactics in a game.
    3. Lah sending a huge force with Nom Anor & Vergere is certainly a big reason for their mishaps. You must admit things would have gone alot smoother had the extra forces not arrived. So at the mission's inception, it was very feasible.
    4. We must really consider and understand Anakin Solo's character to truly accept the validy of the mission. He was afterall the one to suggest it. Anakin truly believes in taking the initiative against the YV whenever the opportunity presents itself. This philosophy is enhanced by Jacen's seemingly utter failure to take some initiative and Chewie's untimely demise. When the YV clone voxyn to hunt down the Jedi, Anakin is understandably the first to help find more yammosk for Cilghal. Anakin is arguably the strongest "new" Jedi and appropriately the leader of a mission which risks considerably fewer lives than had they employed a larger Jedi-led task force. Suggesting this mission, adopting this mission and leading it is all truly within Anakin's character. His brashness which has been alluded to countless times in previous NJO books also resurfaces during the heart of this mission. Since its early stages of conception to its execution (albeit not by Anakin), the mission thrives un
  10. Jedi-Master-Harsh Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2001
    I read this post late, so you may get this you may not. but I realy hatted the book. for one reason they killed Anakin!!!!!

    It was a great peace of literature but the just ruined it by killing Anakin.

    I'v read only the frist page of this thred so that's that.

    will some one please tell me Y they had to kill ankin frist they kill Chewy now Anakin? Also the way the force was with him. he realy shoun't have died, but since he did shoun't he have disaper??????????

    Please say some thin!!!!!!!!1
  11. hannalei Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    I've just finished reading the book and frankly, I feel like I have just been through a "breaking" session with the Vong. And this is not the first book in the series to make me feel that way. Is the publishing company run by a Vong, delighting in inflicting trememdous amounts of agony? Why is it that everyone in the creative community thinks that we want darkness and tragedy all the time? This mindset is reflected more and more in the entertainment industry and I'm sick of it.

    Knowing that Anakin was going to die made the story even more painful to read. (No more spoilers for me!) I've accepted, grudgingly, the fact that he's dead but I'm dissappointed that LFL or whoever it is that's dreaming this up, felt in necessary to go there. His death was heroic, but I fail to see how it helped defeat or even dent the overall scourge of the Vong. (We can also see why the armed forces never send an entire set of siblings into the same battle.)

    I agree that the voxyn hunt was a weak plot device useful only to bring the characters in this story, and a number of it's fans, to their knees. One of the reasons I see: the Vong were cloning the voxyn so what difference does a queen make? All you need is a sampling of DNA. The group would have had to permanently destroy the cloning facility, not just the original source of the DNA. Granted, it's never described how the Vong do their cloning, but what does it matter. There were nests of these things, hundreds of them, that were left alive and still useful to the enemy. So the mission was unsuccessful anyway, and now Anakin is dead, Jacen is captive (another situation that I can hardly bear the thought of) and Jaina is at least struggling with the dark side. I'm sickened and appalled at the endless suffering of this family. I can see the point that this family is a symbolic reprentative of the suffering of the whole SW galaxy, but, okay, I get it, I understand, it's clear. Everyone is suffering! UNCLE!

    I agree that Luke and the others should have seen the uselessnes of this little strike team endeavor and nixed it from the start. It is apparent to me that any New Republic strike team could have done this job and I agree that it was a waste fo the future of the jedi to send 17 of their best a brightest to do the job. The Jedi can't feel the vong through the force anyway, they used conventional weaponry and tactics that required no force use, and other than Jacen's ability to confound the beasts (so the strike team could have employed a few jedi) the force was not an ally to most situations. In fact, it seems to me that the hand to hand combat relied upon by the Jedi is the most ineffectual battle style of all in fighting the Vong. There is no evidence in this storyline, yet, that the Jedi are the best weapons against this enemy. The New Republic is doing a pretty good job of kicking butt by themselves once they put their minds to it.

    I know I'm probably going to get blasted, but hey, I'm entitled to my opinion. And my opinion is that LFL DOESN'T have a master plan to this story, despite what they would like us to think. I think they may have a rough idea, but are essentially making it up as they go along, hoping that we won't notice the huge logic holes and dropped subplots along the way. I don't think Lucas himself has much more than a cursory concern about these stories, because even if he finishes the SW series, the timeline will be so far removed from the events in these books that they will be irrelevant. I think that the way these stories are written (or destroyed), and the plot lines, are reflections of author and editor styles, and the possiblity that the authors are forced contractually to lay their pens to a Star Wars novel and, therefore, lack an affinity for it beyond personal creative outlet.

    The most far-fetched line in SBS to me so far is the one uttered by Leia when she tells Han that the twins are in trouble at the end. I don't know if she realizes the details, but to think that Jacen's predicament is merely Jedi trouble that he has to solve himself is
  12. Ginger Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2001
    star 4

    hannalei, amen to what you said.
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