SNG Spoliers vs Non-spoilers --Which side are you on?

> Unfortunately, he also ADDED IN so much useless stuff - especially in TTT. I'm all for changing certain details to suit the medium, but I felt that what he did in TTT was way overboard - the pacing was off, and the story didn't even make complete sense.

Yeah I think he spent too much time on Helm's Deep. PJ should have just stuck to the book, and finished when the book finished, instead of dragging that last Shelob's Lair part to ROTK. THAT way, he'd have more time to spend on the Scouring of the Shire, Saruman's death, etc...which weren't even shown.

 

I always imagined PJ's head like the way the Uruk Hai's head in TTT....

Anyway, I have lots of gripes.

1. The False impression that Saruman created the Uruk Hai. Damn him! It was Sauron's creation! Not his!

2. We should have seen Uruk Hai at the Siege of Minas Tirith.

3. Why the hell do you even need to have the Nazgul swooping down when the spells to cast fear was sufficient?

4. Why the hell is the Siege of Minas Tirith so bright? The clouds smothered the sun and nothing was to be seen! It was night!

5. The soldiers of Gondor seem very badly trained.

6. The Rohirrim... seem to be able to walk through pikes. And the orcs.. frightened??? Who are they more frightened of? Sauron or the Rohirrim?

7. THe Black Ships of Umbar was perhaps the greatest travesty against the book.

 

Jedi_Healer, I'm afraid I don't agree - the Mount Doom scene is the climax of the third movie, and it is quite impossible to have yet another conflict (e.g. the Scouring of the Shire) after that. Although I used to think differently, I now think Peter Jackson made the right decision in moving Shelob to the third movie. But I felt that they reached the Black Gate much too early in the second.

It's true that they gave the impression that Saruman created the Uruk-Hai, and yet there were Uruk-Hai in the tower of Cirith Ungol! I don't mind changes per se, but contradictions are really distracting!

Another thing - in TTT, Ithilien was already under siege, but in ROTK it seems like Mordor's army just arrived by the river after emerging from Minas Morgul!

 

You know what, you're probably right. PJ must have had a reason for doing what he did. The scouring would have looked very odd, sticking out like a sore thumb, when everything has ended. But I guess I'm just too stubborn to listen to reason...there was a whole chunk in ROTK that was left untold, and I guess I just wanted to see it... LOL So (although it hardly seems fair) I'm hammering PJ for that. *nods wisely*

(Is it just me, or are we straying from the topic here? )

 

Actually, I wasn't very happy with the ending of ROTK - not because of its length, but because it wasn't explained very properly why the Elves were leaving, and more importantly why Frodo was leaving with them. (Even PJ - or was it Philippa or Fran? - acknowledged in the EE commentary that if they had more time, they could have done the ending better - though that of course calls to mind the question of why didn't they improve it for the EE.)

I was also hoping that the movie would end with Galadriel's voice-over, as that would give the trilogy some symmetry.

 

I spent a lot of time explaining to people who didn't read the book what was happening at the end.

Of course, the bulk of the ignorant people have no idea of the little idiosyncracies of the show.

Yeah, the chronologies in the ROTK were a little messed up. They seem to have fast forwarded the whole lot. Any how, that isn't really much of a problem.

What is a problem however, was the shamble of Sauron's army when it came to Minas Tirith. Sauron, a Maiar of Aule, unable to equip his troops with anything better than that?

They could have also shown an army emerging at the same time from the Black Gate itself.

But I still think the Battle of the Pelennor Fields wouldn't have ended so anti-climatically if they haven't introduced the Dead to the Battle!!!!

 

I thought bringing the Dead to Pellenor was a great idea, actually.

But I was rather disappointed that the Easterlings were never shown in battle, not even in the EE. Seems quite pointless introducing them in TTT.

 

Anyway, back to the topic...

Spoiler-free people, do you feel that you enjoyed the show more than the "spoiled" people (if you talked to them after the show)? Were you surprised by any of the plot turns in ROTS? Do you feel it was worth the wait?

Just curious to know how the spoiler-free people feel about the show. =) As a "spoiled" person myself, I enjoyed the film... and it just gets better every time I watch it!

 

The first time I watched it, I was completely blown away!. I tell you, spoiler-free is the best!

 

wmgan posted on 5/23/05 7:11pm

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I thought bringing the Dead to Pellenor was a great idea, actually.

But I was rather disappointed that the Easterlings were never shown in battle, not even in the EE. Seems quite pointless introducing them in TTT.
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They were introduced I think, pay a little attention to what burst through the gate after the gate shattered.

And no, I thought the Dead was a stupid idea. Because it suggested that the human population of Gondor is so low that the population is nothing more than what's left in Minas Tirith, which is downright shocking. Where is the southern armies of Gondor? Gone to the grave? Also, Denethor was portrayed as a real dotard, when that was not the case in the book. That was one of the greatest travesties in the book. A complete butchering of a character was unacceptable.

Back to topic, I wasn't quite too impressed with the movie, and people who aren't really fans of the movie who watched it with me, did say it got a little boring. And I agree. Even if I didn't glance through the comic, it'd have made no difference.

 

>> Denethor was portrayed as a real dotard, when that was not the case in the book. That was one of the greatest travesties in the book. A complete butchering of a character was unacceptable.

Ahh I know what you mean. I was quite irritated at the way Denethor was portrayed: as a glutton, a slime... The part where he tears the meat with his teeth and had all this juice running down his chin just irks me. But I think PJ might have been trying to symbolize the coming doom for Faramir and his men, that they were about to be butchered, just as Denethor butchered his food, and blood was going to be spilled, just as red stuff (possibly blood) ran down his chin. And, as you might have noticed, PJ interwined both scenes together. But what he did, which is unforgivable, was not showing any of Denethor's good points. Like Denethor being very wise. I think for those who only watched the movie, Denethor as a wise ruler would never have entered their minds. More like crazy and demented.

Back to ROTS, I honestly think I would have enjoyed it more if I was totally spoiler-free. I'd read the comics beforehand, and thus knew what was going to happen next etc... It would have been a better experience, I think. Ahh, but well, now I'll never know.

EDIT: BTW Fingolfin, how do you quote?

 

I don't know if I have said this before, but I am really interested and curious to know the reactions of those who were not just 100% but 200% spoiler-free -- and by this I mean those that had never watched the OT and knew nothing of what would become of Anakin and Palpatine. Until now, I haven't encountered such a person (even a friend of mine who had never even watched a single SW movie before ROTS somehow already knew about the Anakin-Vader connection).

Back to Denethor -- I didn't think this was a travesty to the book, because exaggeration is after all necessary in all art-forms, and often more so in films than in novels due to time constraints. PJ chose to emphasize the side of Denethor that was most necessary for the plot -- he didn't completely reinvent Denethor's character, but merely exaggerated one side of his character and play down the other. I don't think this is any worse than softening Aragorn's character into an exile who slowly accepts his responsibility to be king, or by letting Faramir be tempted (at least initially) by the Ring. Ditto with playing up Merry and Pippin's comic relief roles at the beginning (though that probably made their later acts of bravery more impactful).

One thing I really missed in the films was Saruman's double treachery -- both Galadriel and Gandalf (in the EE) called him "Sauron's puppet" in TTT, but he was in fact (in the novel) planning to betray Sauron and take the Ring for himself.

 

The portrayal of Denethor was so exaggerated, it was a completely new character. So much so, that Denethor was doing a Nero while Rome was burning.

Faramir tempted by Ring was in the book anyway. But again so exaggerated that a whole new scene was created.

But, I would have prefered that Aragorn wasn't so portrayed as one who would even refuse the throne. I would have prefered that he made a grand entrance to the Fields of Pelennor. Gah.. I could go on ranting for all day long and I'll only be satisfied with PJ's head as a doorstop, like Murray the talking skull.

Jedi_Healer: I used some plug-in to quote. Apparently you need firefox to use the plug-in. Forgot how to get the plug-in...

 

Spoiler-free people, do you feel that you enjoyed the show more than the "spoiled" people (if you talked to them after the show)? Were you surprised by any of the plot turns in ROTS? Do you feel it was worth the wait?

Yes, of course! I definitely enjoyed the show, though I'm not sure how much more than 'spoiled' people. My sister (who is not spoiler free) loved the show too.

I was completely surprised by the major plot turns, as opposed to her, and by the conclusion of the movie.
For example, I had no idea what the ending was like. So when Padme was on her death bed, breathing her last, I was half expecting the credits to start rolling!

I'm not sure but think I felt greater satisfaction at the end of ROTS. It was indeed worth the wait

 

Damm, seriously I wish all the time that i was still a SW 'virgin'. No matter how spoiler free i keep myself, nothing beats watching it and discovering the story the first time. Sigh. I envy those who are watching it the first time.