Discussion ST lightsaber battles. Mirror PT or OT?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by therealharvywallbanger, Oct 30, 2013.

?

Should ST lightsaber battles resemble the OT or the PT? You have to pic one

OT 94 vote(s) 42.3%
PT 128 vote(s) 57.7%
  1. Pro Scoundrel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 4
    Haven't seen it yet. Been meaning to, and now I definitely will.
  2. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 4
    ??? Excuse me? The flip got him less than 5 feet. He surely could've jogged further.

    The flip didn't open the door, using the force to throw a droid part at the panel did. No problem with this, tactical sense. Theflip beforehand none at all.


    ??? How exactly was he facing his opponent while he was spinning in the air? Leaving the ground in that instance left him more open and less focused on his opponent.

    You can run backwards or sideways while keeping your eyes on your opponent.

    Come on guys, let's be real. It was done for the flash, pure and simple.
    Granger likes this.
  3. Darth Raiden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2013
    star 3
    Although it wasn't me who wrote that I agree with everything you said :p. Nice comparison you put there with Bruce and Chuck truly an epic duel for the ages :).

    Yes I know he used the force to open the door, the thing is at the end of the day flash or not Maul got to a safe position, maybe he thought simple running or jogging the jedi would have caught up with him, the jedi themselves were overwhelmed at times to to his flash and unpredictable style anyways. I mean look at Vader at ROTJ he was running back to make cover but Luke overwhelmed him. Beside unorthodox and unpredictability shouldn't be underestimated in a fight.

    You want to see unnecessary flips... just watch this, this is quite ironic seeing that was Ray Park as well
  4. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 4
    There you go. Evidence Ray Park puts in unnecessary flips. Looks cool, but pointless and not needed in the ST duels.

    Please don't compare what Bruce and Chuck did in that iconic fight to Maul's flip here. It was pointless and unnecessary. Flash for flash sake, and something that doesn't need to be in the ST.

    Let me stress, it's not the flips or lightsaber twirls themselves. Some served a purpose, and others were only there for flash. My opinion is that the ones solely in place for flash don't need to be there.
  5. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    star 7
    Not that you are actually interested in understanding this, but in martial arts, spinning and flipping are used to put space between oneself and an opponent while not completely taking your eyes off of them, like say, turning and running away.
  6. Darth Raiden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2013
    star 3
    Yes but what I was pointing out was the flip in TPM was necessary while the flips you saw in the vid was long, dull and served no purpose. At the end of the day there will be flash in fight scenes heck even the bourne films there was a sense of a cool appeal there. Like Brandon Lee said real martial fights ain't pretty and if there were in films: they wouldn't look appealing, and they wouldn't last long like the duel in TESB.
    VMeran likes this.
  7. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 4
    Not like you are actually interested in understanding this, but people can run without turning around. Athletes (including martial artists) run backwards and sideways all the time, in every sport, without taking their eyes off of an opponent or the ball.

    What Maul did, in this instance, put less than 5' between him and Kenobi and caused him to take his eyes off of his opponent. Simply running backwards or sideways would've put far more distance between him and his opponents.
    Last edited by T-R-, Nov 22, 2013
  8. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

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    star 6
    Sport. Not a battlefield with random bits of debris (y'know...like what he telekinesed to open the door) to potentially trip over.
    Darth Raiden likes this.
  9. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 4
    good try, except he didn't flip over any debris and there wasn't much there if you watch the scene. It was a pristine hangar with a few destroyed droids, not exactly a battlefield
    Last edited by T-R-, Nov 22, 2013
  10. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    Blah blah blah If I don't have firsthand experience with it it must be stupid. We were being nice, letting you burn page after page bashing the PT. At this point just quit trolling and find something else to talk about.
  11. Darth Raiden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2013
    star 3
    But not every martial artist is the same, I know one person who competed and utilse very unorthdox and flasy techniques in most of his bouts but he's ended up being a multiple world champion.
  12. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    Stop talking in circles with each other. He doesn't care.
  13. sluggo1313. Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4

    No they aren't.
    T-R- likes this.
  14. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    Like I said, I only rank at red belt. Where are you at in your Aikido studies?
  15. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 4
    You are correct, I don't have 1st hand experience with the wushu, the martial art that Ray Park studies, but neither do you. Aikido is nothing like wushu in either style or technique. So please don't act the patronizing expert as we have the same level of knowledge.

    Then there is the fact that I was not bashing the PT, I didn't even bash the style, all I said was that I prefer that unnecessary and pointless flips not be included in the ST. That's all i said.

    You and others then proceeded to burn page after page trying to justify the flip as a tactical move, all the while being snarky.

    I find it funny a MOD, such as yourself, tells me to stop trolling when YOU said "Not like you are actually interested in understanding this"

    That's a pretty hard troll comment right there, coming from a mod no less.

    This quote of yours could be considered trolling as well:

  16. EHT Manager: New Films

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    star 6
  17. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    Or satire. Since, you know... I'm not the one in here with an agenda.

    Wushu is a defensive discipline. Similar to Aikido, which is why I clearly emphasized multiple defensive martial art forms during this conversation. But, let's not let informed opinions get in the way of simply opining.
  18. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Don't we have a PT basher's sanctuary?
  19. sluggo1313. Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4

    I have a black belt in Gojo Karate, Chito-Ryu Karate, I'm working on my black in Kubudo. I'm a level 1 boxing instructor. And I've done/do training in Kung Fu, Jeet Kune Do, Mai Tai, Judo and Ju Justisu.

    In no martial art would you EVER do a flip or a spin to create space and distance. They are moves that take time to preform, and if you must create distance you probably don't have that time. They are also dangerous, as a spin puts you in a vunerable position, and a flip can be missed. A simple step back, to the side or forward accomplished the game goal with none of the draw backs, and you never have to take your eyes off the other person.
  20. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    They aren't content to stay there, unfortunately.

    Now, this is more like it. Congrats on the ranks. That is quite a commitment. Flips can certainly miss, but are taught. And, spinning is taught in our class for blocks and throws. Probably never going to use them in an actual defensive situation, but momentum has been the primary emphasis with it.
    Last edited by A Chorus of Disapproval, Nov 22, 2013
    Darth Raiden likes this.
  21. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
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    You'd think over a decade later, they'd die out. Do we still have people bellyache about Wild Wild West or Battlefield Earth on the message boards over and over?
  22. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    No, but only because the trolls have no audience to actually feed on with those films. But, lets' not derail this thread with site politics.
  23. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    *ahem* Well as I've said before, I hope the duels find a nice balance between OT style and PT style, but please don't make it like the geriatric one from ANH.
    VMeran, Pro Scoundrel, Ryus and 2 others like this.
  24. sluggo1313. Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2013
    star 4

    I've trained in 5 different schools and many more different teachers, and never once between taught a flip in martial arts, because it isn't martial arts is gymnastics.

    Spinning is taught for certain offense moves (spinning kicks being the most common) but they aren't moves that are done in "real" situation (similar to teaching moves using the chamber hand). But even in that enviroment, they are not for movement.

    To bring it back to the gif above - Mauls twirl/flip is completely....fluff. It serves no purpose at all. But its a movie. I prefer less fluff myself, but it doesn't ruin it for me either.
    T-R- likes this.
  25. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    I don't want to derail this with our personal training, so if you want, PM me. If you are remotely close to Philly, I would gladly attend if you have any matches or exhibitions. Kubudo is fascinating.
    Last edited by A Chorus of Disapproval, Nov 22, 2013