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ST ST lightsaber battles. Mirror PT or OT?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by therealharvywallbanger, Oct 30, 2013.

?

Should ST lightsaber battles resemble the OT or the PT? You have to pic one

  1. OT

    120 vote(s)
    45.1%
  2. PT

    146 vote(s)
    54.9%
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  1. JediKnightWax

    JediKnightWax Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    Lacking, not as in "boring" but "less energetic." There were just good reasons why the battles in the OT were less energetic which makes them fit in consistently with the rest of the films.
     
  2. Starryganpost

    Starryganpost Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2014

    "Lacking" is a strange way to describe it, but sure, there's no doubt that OT duels are less energetic.
     
  3. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Never wanted to kill Luke?

    Well sort of. If he had killed Luke it would have been because Luke wasn't good enough. Not because he didn't try. It wasn't his goal or he would have done it but if it had happened then it would have and Luke was a loser not worth his time.

    I mean he sort of propels him out of a window! So he's "glad" that Luke survived. Once again he was impressive as when he escaped the carbon freeze.

    The point is though it's all well and good for we as fans to discuss this but for the average movie goers if they think about it then they would probably find it confusing that Vader goes from wanting to capture Luke, then kill him then reveal who he is and then offer him the chance to join up against the Emperor.

    Now one of the points that is seen as a plus for the OT but for some strange reason is shifted to be a minus for the PT is that all sorts of things are going on around the characters and in their heads that we aren't privy to or only get glimpses of.

    Why does Vader wait to tell Luke about himself? Remember the sub text that is not expanded upon is that as far as Vader knows Obi-Wan had been teaching Luke for years and knows who he is. It's during the duel that he realizes that while good Luke's training is far from complete and on top of that Obi-Wan never told him what happened to his father and so he can use that.

    This thinking on Vader's part is inferred by what we see onscreen but never outright stated in an open way.

    I watched Vader and Obi-Wan duel last night paying even more particular attention to all aspects and I have to say it's simply got everything. It the best duel of the entire series. It has everything in it. The best action, character and emotion. SImply everything.

    Lucas is a visual storyteller and this is his ultimate visual creation in duels.
     
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  4. Starryganpost

    Starryganpost Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2014
    You're right, Vader never tells us what he's thinking, but either way it's consistent and logical. We're aware of both Vader and Luke's motives. Even if, as you say, Vader wants to kill Luke after he escapes the freezing chamber, it's consistent with what he wants; he failed to capture the important, powerful rebel leader, so now he'll try to kill him to retrieve the situation. If he later sees an opportunity to turn him again, well then great. I personally don't see it that way, I think overpowering Luke into capture and submission was always Vader's game, but I'm sure it wouldn't have bothered him unduly if Luke had died (at this stage in the story). The problems in the PT go deeper, IMO.

    I agree entirely. I hate the haters who never shut up about how slow it is, or how stupid it was to feature an old man and a robot in the only lightsaber fight of the movie. Can't they see it's about the drama, the tension the character and the emotion that's revealed in those slow, clumsy swings? It's a shame that people can't appreciate the ultimate visual spectacle Lucas created in that piece of classic cinema magic.


    :p
     
  5. Colossus of Rhodes

    Colossus of Rhodes Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    May 5, 2014
    Lightsaber battles were progressively better IMO as the movies were shot, in that order (IV-VI, I-III). In E1 slightly over-choreographed (in moments looked like a ballet), in E2 maybe over-the top but in E3 almost perfect (and yes 2 styles were merged in E3).

    So slight improvement over E3 would be great. [light-saber smiley goes here]
     
  6. Zinnzade

    Zinnzade Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 6, 2013

    I appreciated the Obi vs Vader duel a lot more after watching the prequels, personally. Seeing their last confrontation, and knowing their history made the moment of them dueling again so much more special, for me.

    While I can appreciate the good parts of that scene, is it not valid to also want better choreography and better execution of the duel itself? Acting, storytelling and choreography aren't mutually exclusive terms.

    It's a little bit disconcerting when people try to use a preference (or nostalgia?) towards the acting, writing or storytelling of a scene in order to make an argument of how the fight choreography was better. If the only measurement of a duel is the acting, writing and story, then why have the duel at all? It can just be another talking scene or a verbal fight if we're going to get poorly constructed fight choreography.

    IMHO, this whole thread seems like an example of how you can take almost any topic but as soon as you start saying "PT" and "OT", it's like a trigger to debate even the most easily agreeable things. I've heard others say it and I'm starting to agree that maybe those terms need to be diminished and replaced with just "Star Wars". Just my general thoughts anyways.
     
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  7. Granek

    Granek Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2012
    give me the EP1-III LS battles, simply put the EP IV-VI were horrible, coming from someone that has some Martial Arts training in the staff and katana, Ep Iv-VI were horribly average I know some 12 year olds that would handle a LS better than Vader and Luke in Ep IV-VI. Granted Ep 1-3 was lots more 'showy' but the fights were much more 'realistic' in terms of a saber/sword fight mechanic. Particularly Palpatine vs the 3 Jedi Masters then vs Mace. For all the 'missing' in the Obi-Wan vs Anakin fight that was much more enjoyable than the later fight between the same.
     
  8. Starryganpost

    Starryganpost Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2014

    My comment was sarcastic - I appreciate that whatever the background to the Death Star duel the choreography is woeful. I think your point about mutually exclusive traits is an excellent one and would go further in saying that to all duels should attempt to include all aspects of acting, storytelling and choreography. The problem I have isn't that the PT duels have too much choreography or action, but that they are lacking those storytelling elements. The OT, conversely, lack the choreographic panache of the PT. In an ideal world, I think most would agree, the new movies will marry the choreography of the PT with the drama of the OT: there's no real reason to force people to choose one or the other, and noone should have to choose.

    As for PT vs. OT, in the posts on this thread I've been involved in anyway, there's been a nice sense of balance and reasoned discussion which is sorely lacking from other debates on the subject which I've found refreshing, although I'll admit I havn't read all 757 posts.

    Granek I agree about the quality of the fighting in IV-VI, especially IV, and I appreciated the choreography of the PT. But like I said above, why can't well choreographed fight scenes have tension, character and depth too? It's what's missing from the PT duels, rather than what's there, that presents a problem for me.
     
  9. Hoggsquattle

    Hoggsquattle Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2009

    While I disagree about your view of what the OT and PT duels lack, I applaud the spirit of your post. ;)
     
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  10. Hoggsquattle

    Hoggsquattle Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2009
    I didn’t say only the duels give us details - the events leading up to the fights and the fight themselves tell us all we need to know.
    The lightsabre duel at the the end of AotC - what do you feel is missing in that? - I’m just choosing one because I simply don’t see where you’re coming from, because I don’t see what more needs to be added. Just the Yoda part - as you say below this is the problem area for you.
    I agree that the Sidious vs. Council fight is a disappointment. The first 5 times in the cinema was awesome but in hindsight it very poor compared to all the others - dramatically great, but, in regards to action, very poor. I think it was hindered by the fact that, by it’s nature it should have been graphic with the Master getting cut down so close up, but instead they just kind of dropped to the ground. Plus, Mace Windu needed a more bad ass final fight.
    It would, looking back, have been better if, when Sidious leaps over the desk, Lucas cut to the scene of Anakin trying to figure out what to do - he gets in the speeder and arrives at the Chancellor’s office to find the Masters cut down - each body leading the way to Mace to show a few moments before he overpowers Sidious. And carry with the scene that comes next.
    Then we’d be here now imagining how epic it must have been, instead of a last minute decision.
    Do you have any idea what the original version of the confrontation was meant to be?
    In saying that, I still enjoy it immensely - I hadn’t considered an alternate version before - I just made that up now.


    Sorry, I don’t follow your idea about Obi-Wan hopping on the shuttle - it isn’t your description, it is me ;) I’m not able to picture it - can you describe it again?
    I disagree. I think the progression is shown perfectly. It fits his character and his Jedi beliefs. I don’t view it as him being detached - it is just that he has control.
    The two Manadolore arcs in TCW compliments this. Obi-Wan loves Satine but he made his choice years ago, meeting her again affects him but he remains in control. When she is murdered in front of him he is devastated but he doesn’t go on a rampage there or later when he is rescued.
    He hasn’t been the young man on Naboo who lost his temper and nearly died in a long, long time.
    He doesn’t want to face Anakin, but he has to - he isn’t conflicted by the time the fight starts, if he was he’d be dead in minutes. I don’t he was really conflicted at the end either - if I gave that impression I didn’t mean to because having the strategic advance over Anakin gives him the opportunity to try to end this with Anakin alive but I’m unclear as to how much he believed that was possible or how much he wanted it to end with Anakin alive - he does leave him to suffer in what he thinks are his final minutes.
    Okies ;)
    Because Yoda in a lightsabre fight is freaking awesome.
    The prior relationship isn’t that important, but it was just added for the feeling of giving more depth to the GFFA - just like the bounty hunters, to add more colour - same reason as similar things throughout the franchise that occur without detailed explanations, e.g. why a bounty hunter on Ord Mantell? Why not just “I need to pay off Jabba”? Why was Solo on Ord Mantell? Why mention a planet and not give more details? - it isn’t important it is just to imply a previous adventure that other things happen too. Same for Han winning the Falcon and Lando’s assertion that he was cheated, etc.. To add to the feeling that the GFFA is a larger place that the central characters and stories.
    What happened between Yoda and Dooku is not relevant?
    A battlion of Clones wouldn’t scare off Dooku ;)
    The lack of action and not supposed to actual care didn’t stop Fett’s popularity from exploding out of all proportion :p
    Plus, the Master/Padawan relationship is mentioned in TCW, but as I recall, in the same fashion.
    I understand ;)
    As I said above the Sidious vs. Council fight is a bit of a letdown in the in hindsight. It should have been given more time than just a decision that morning. I don’t get the urgency to do it there and then and a few later as a re-shoot or such.
    I won’t fault the choreography or drama in it though - but more the planning and rushed nature of it.
    I can see no faults myself in the others, in regards to action, music, etc. :)
    I’m lost here. What did I disagree with? I’ve looked through our posts but I can’t find it.
    Did I seem to be criticising the final duel with Dooku? It wasn’t intention because it is an awesome fight.
    I disagree - it was perfectly set up for Anakin’s fall, he was put in a spot and had no one he trusts to turn for guidance. Putting Anakin in a corner is the perfect way to make him make a bad choice and Kenobi and Yoda were lightyears away and he couldn’t face Padmé with this.
    This is also complimented in TCW - Destroy Malevolence - Anakin can only see taking out the bridge and Ashoka makes him see the mistake he is making.
    My problem with that fight is the lame way the Masters die (not Mace)
    As far as Yoda and Kenobi knew, they were the last Jedi left. It was all up to them and the odds were against them.
    As awesome as Kenobi is, he wouldn’t have lasted long against Palpatine, even at Yoda’s side.
    The only real advantage they had was surprise. This meant going after them at the same time, and the sooner the better.
    It wouldn’t make any sense for Yoda to up stakes and head for the hills without trying. If someone sat down to watch the OT after something like that, they’d be questioning why Yoda is so adamant that Luke has to confront the Emperor and Vader when he just ran off. Yoda would lose all credibility.
    Plus, as you say, it is cool :)
    There should be a Thumb Up smilie ;)

    This is the reason I’m looking forward to new books and the Darth Vader ongoing comic book.
    We are going to get writer’s exploring Vader’s story - discovering how Vader reacted to discovering who that X-Wing pilot was, why a Sith Lord was answerable to Tarkin and getting things from his loin of view - all while he is still being the ultimate bad guy ;)



    Vader doesn't send Luke out the window, the stuff he is throwing at Luke breaks it and Luke is sucked out.

    Vader isn't trying to kill him - it is his idea to take him to the Emperor alive, and I do believe that his offer to Luke of overthrowing the Emperor is genuine.

    If Vader had wanted to kill him - even as part of a test - Luke wouldn't have lasted five minutes.

    "Now one of the points that is seen as a plus for the OT but for some strange reason is shifted to be a minus for the PT is that all sorts of things are going on around the characters and in their heads that we aren't privy to or only get glimpses of." - You mean that people think the PT fights are lacking in explanation, story and drama, but you say that if this is so then so is the Bespin duel?

    If this is what you mean, I disagree - Vader is clearly trying to take Luke alive, it is his idea not Palpatine's and he has test the freezing chamber.

    My feelings on the PT duels are clear - they have equal drama, motivation, etc. behind them as the OT fights.

    I think the Battle of the Heroes is my favourite too, but I love them all. ;)


    I thought Qui-Riv-Brid is talking about Mustafar?
     
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  11. Rabs

    Rabs Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2014

    :rolleyes: I have a little skill with the katana and in fencing. As well as spear and bow. Plus I know some MMA, and not once have I ever judged a film by what I know to be realistic. To do so is to guarantee dissatisfaction while watching and trying to enjoy a fictional film.
     
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  12. SimitarLikeTusk

    SimitarLikeTusk Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2014

    They're making the point that the fight choreography is irrelevant. It is part of what makes up the scene of course, but to specifically analyze it on its own is ridiculously pointless. More, faster, fight choregraphy doesnt equal better choreography and it certainly doesn't necessarily mean a better scene. That's down to the acting, writing, directing, cinematography and perhaps more importantly to this topic, the point of the scene in the story. Whether it moves the story forward or slows the movie down with mindless, flashy action.
     
  13. Import_Jedi

    Import_Jedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 20, 2001
    Definitely PT. It would be cool if Nick Gillard was re-hired (maybe he already has) to teach Mark Hamill and Co. some fancy trick or two for the lightsaber duel in SW7.
     
  14. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 29, 2014
    NG has not been rehired.
     
  15. Import_Jedi

    Import_Jedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 20, 2001

    Hm, that's unfortunate. I just want the ST duels to be as dynamic as the ones in the prequels... I don't mind the duels in the OT being the way they were considering the fact that Obi-Wan and Vader hadn't seen each other in 20 years, and in TESB, Vader was going up against an inexperienced lightsaber welder. The ROTJ duel was cool, but Luke had enough time in 30 years to fight/train beyond the level of say, Qui-Gon.
     
  16. Starryganpost

    Starryganpost Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Jul 29, 2014
    Hogsquattle I've got a deadline looming and have procrastinated too long on the internet already, so I'm afraid you'll have to wait another 12 hours or so for a response. :p


    I just want to lend my support to this though, before I go. I actually think that direction, cinematography and editing also play a huge part in how fights work on screen and that this gets too little discussion. On that count, I think that the quality varies far more dramatically throughout all six films, and even within films, to reduce to an OT vs. PT dichotomy. For example, Obi-Wan vs. Vader, round 2, is probably the worst in that respect, while I think Luke vs Vader on Bespin is the most accomplished, but you'll always get different answers based on which categories you choose to analyse it on.
     
  17. KitsterAKABobaFett

    KitsterAKABobaFett Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 31, 2007
    I'd love to see a Jedi (or Sith) use the Force to wield a lightsaber without holding it. I just imagine Luke standing still, perfectly calm, as his lightsaber deflects an attacker.

    Or at the very least, the awesome move of Mace Windu's in the old video game Jedi Power Battles, if anyone remembers, where he would kneel down as his lightsaber twirled all around him creating a sort of "shield."
     
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  18. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    That would be awesome!
     
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  19. Hoggsquattle

    Hoggsquattle Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2009
    That's okay - take your time, those long posts knock the wind out of me and I lil to take a few days between them ;)
     
  20. Hoggsquattle

    Hoggsquattle Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2009
    People have to remember that Star Wars is an evolving thing - the Episode IV duel was the first attempt and it is a classy sword by any standard.

    I've been saying something similar myself lately, but it is unlikely, I'm afraid.

    Odds are, the ST will cause a new split. :(

    Exactly. I don't watch movie for "realism". There is plenty of realism in life, Movies are for escapism.

    They only need to be truthful to the world the story is set in.


    There is no "sword master" listed on IMDB.

    There is also no stunt co-ordinator named on IMDB, yet three stunt performers, and I believe the having a co-ordinator is obligatory - the director is not allowed to create stunts without one, as far as I know - so he/she just isn't named yet.

    Most likely the two positions will be the same person and I'd imagine Hamill has already been in training.

    In what way?


    I like the sound of it ;)
     
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  21. Starryganpost

    Starryganpost Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2014

    Yoda vs. Dooku I don't feel fits into the story - there's no set-up and barely a hint of who Dooku was or how he and Yoda knew each other. Even a line in an early scene where the council discuss Dooku, with Yoda making a comment about how he remembers him would have been fine. Yes, it's awesome and cool, but it's not adding colour or background in the same way as Ord Mantell or winning the Falcon - you're comparing 10 seconds (or less) of dialogue with a 2 and a half minute action sequence. My point is that the primary reason it's there seems to be because it's awesome; I even think there's an interview with Lucas where he comments that it's the scene everyone's been waiting to see. It feels like it's been shoehorned in to please fans rather than to advance the story.

    On Palps vs. the Jedi, I actually like your version, I think it ups the dramatic tension. I have no idea what it was meant to be like originally, but I agree that the masters could have put up more of a fight. Like you, I still enjoyed the fight (as, it should be said, I enjoy all of the fights in SW), but I'm aware of its flaws. You may feel that it charts Anakin's fall well, but I don't think so, though it has nothing really to do with the fight and everything to do with the transformation from "He should stand trial for treason and I will be the star witness to convict him" to "I will serve him without question and murder anyone he asks" in all of 30 seconds. But again, that's off topic and a much larger problem for RotS as whole than just this one scene.



    Ok, imagine the initial few blows traded in front of the shuttle with Padmé lying nearby. Instead of running towards the buildings, Anakin drives Obi-Wan towards the shuttle, trapping him with no-where to go. Obi-Wan looks around for an escape route and then force jumps up and lands on the shuttle's roof. Then we have the 'higher ground dialogue' and Anakin attempts a force jump up onto the shuttle, Obi-Wan dismembers him, and Anakin falls off the landing platform into the lava below, while his lightsaber lands on the platform. The only difference this would make to the movie is that it looks and sounds even stupider than the actual ending of the fight and misses out a lot of cool choreography. But nothing is lost in terms of the story.


    I understand what you're getting at and I do think it makes a lot of sense. The problem is that this isn't what we see on-screen and there is far too much going on here to expect the viewer to infer all of this information from what we see. We don't see Obi-Wan's progression from rash young man to patient Jedi (not that we have to) nor is there any cinematic weight given to Obi-Wan's decision. It's instantaneous and unexplored. I agree that the Mandalore arcs in TCW give excellent background, in particular revealing Obi-Wan's views on the necessity of violence in war, even when he is forced to do horrific things. The stand off in at the climax of the first arc, when Santine is held hostage and the price is her life or the lives on the hundreds aboard the ship is done wonderfully and we get to see Obi-Wan struggle to reconcile his personal feelings with what his duty demands. In the end he doesn't have to decide, because Anakin intervenes, but even had he decided to sacrifice Santine, it would have been set up by their previous discussions of the sacrifices one makes in war. All of this depth is missing in the build-up and during the final fight of RotS and the movies cannot expect every viewer to be fully up to date on all the spin-off materials: they have to stand on their own.



    It is very cool and it could have been great, but I don't agree that attacking Palpatine together was a non-option. Even if it must to be a solo Yoda vs. Palpatine, all its drama is taken away because it's juxtaposed cinematically with a fight which, no matter how badly its set up is executed, still carries a huge deal more emotional weight with the audience and has much more relevance to the story. It wouldn't make any sense for Yoda to just up sticks and leave, but it doesn't make sense for Yoda to just up sticks in the middle of a fight and leave either, but yet that's what happens. What's the sense in having a fight if the only resolution we see is Yoda saying afterwards "I was beaten". Why do we not see it?

    He was, I was just making fun because he didn't specify which Vader vs. Obi-Wan fight! :p

    For me the set up, the pacing, the building of tension, the movement from one set to another, the camera angles, the action, the best dramatic reveal in cinema history all combine to make it [Cloud City] the best duel of the series. Like I said, you can take any one aspect of film-making and argue that it is excellent in any one of the fights (for example, as much as I dislike the set up on Mustafar, it is (for the most part, particularly early on) well directed and shot).
     
  22. fishtailsam

    fishtailsam Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Ive said it once and I'll say it again. I think everyone would be happy with this:

     
  23. Hoggsquattle

    Hoggsquattle Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2009
    They can't put that in Episode VII - everyone will know it is from a different film... (It's in black & white)

    :p

    Starryganpost - argh!!! I thought you'd have put it off a day it too longer ;)
     
  24. Hoggsquattle

    Hoggsquattle Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2009
    I understand what you mean about setting up or making the relationship more important. I guess I just don't feel the need - I do look on the idea that Dooku being a former Padawan of Yoda is just to add colour to the background. I just think that we don't need to know everything.

    Why Yoda in the fight?

    Because it is awesome is great reason to me.

    Why not Yoda?

    It could have just been Obi-Wan and Anakin but that would be the same as TPM - having Dooku able to dispatch our main heroes with relative ease sets him up as a worthy threat.

    Regarding Anakin, I think it suits him well - in a corner, no time to think it through, always acting on instinct, no guidance from a trusted friend - every time it just makes me want to shake him and scream "stop don't do it" - I've made many a bad decision when stuck in a corner too, just mine didn't end the universe :) - I know what it is like.

    Once Anakin killed Mace he felt there was no going back - he could have killed Palpatine too but that would mean losing Padmè - the cry reason he had murdered Mace.

    Regarding the fall of the Masters - the image of Kit Fisto being struck down is the only I ever remember because it so "wavy armed and arraagghh!!" - it wasn't the spend Sidious took them out with, it was the performance.

    I think Lucas couldn't make it more graphic because of what was to come - the scene with the Younglings and Anakin's injuries.

    Okay, I understand now, but I wholeheartedly disagree.

    Everything is lost that way - the duel we've been waiting 20 years to see over in a few minutes?

    I'd have lost my mind :p

    Everything about Obi-Wan and Anakin's character and relationship is learned over all six movies - there is literally nothing else to show except the epic fight we've all been waiting for.

    Kenobi isn't trying to redeem Anakin like Luke is RotJ, Anakin (although I should say Vader) isn't trying to corrupt or take Kenobi prisoner like he is with Luke.

    It is a fight to the death - no witty banter, no Shakespearean monologuing, etc.

    Sometimes a fight just has to be a fight - many moves do it that way.

    I didn't mean to emphasise TCW so much - just that it adds to the characters when viewed as a whole, but you are right - it what happens within the trilogy itself is paramount.

    I have to disagree though - I do see the progression of Obi-Wan from the Padawan to the exile - what he discovers about Anakin is horrific, irredeemable - and he isn't stopped there will be more to come. It isn't in dialogue - it is in McGregor's face and eyes.

    Yes, the Yoda vs. Palpatine could have been great but it wasn't - IT WAS AWESOME.

    Yoda doesn't just give up - he is getting his rear end rightly kicked and can't get an advantage over Sidious.

    Why tell Organa it means exile and try regroup with Obi-Wan or form a resistance?

    Because he knows it's futile - he can't take the Emperor out and obviously he knows teaming up with Kenobi won't make a difference.

    I don't he meant a permanent exile, but he did mean he needed someplace to lay low and figure things out.

    ;) - there should be a thumbs up emoticon.

    I think all the fights are spectacular, but you can't beat the "WWhhaa..?" moment of Bespin ;)
     
  25. Zinnzade

    Zinnzade Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 6, 2013

    Things like the writing and acting aren't specific to a fight scene. We all know from the documentaries that Lucas often just writes ".. and they fight" in the script anyways.

    I think of it almost like having a big multi-course meal. To some people, the desert is irrelevant. To others, maybe the entree is irrelevant. Like movies, the purpose of both is just enjoyment and there is no real right or wrong.

    However, the fact is that most people enjoy desert, most people enjoy fight scenes and the fight choreography of a fight scene is most certainly relevant in a thread that is about fight sequences. To extract the fighting in a fight scene from the discussion is like taking the ice cream out of the sundae.

    If this wasn't true, then movies like Avengers wouldn't be so critically and financially successful. I don't think people in the Avengers forums complain about the complex fast-paced action scenes and suggest they go back to the action scenes from superhero movies 4 decades ago. There's a special bias that exists here that seems to make this happen in these forums. ;)
     
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