DFW, TX Star by Star...SPOILERS!

Discussion in 'MidSouth Regional Discussion' started by Kurgan1, Dec 2, 2001.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Kurgan1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2000
    star 3
    Has anyone else read Star by Star yet? It's the newest hardback in the New Jedi Order book series.

    If not, this topic probably won't make much sense to you, and if you haven't read it yet, read no further, because a few spoilers are ahead.






    That being said, DAMN!!!!!

    This is the single darkest and probably best Star Wars novel that has come out yet. In fact, I'd probably rename it Dark Wars, cause that's about all that fits.

    I've never read any of Troy Denning's stuff before, but he blew me away with this book. I guess they've been saving the really big events until the middle of the series (now) before just blasting everyone with a bunch of huge events.

    Now, the biggest and most hyped one, which is Anakin's death, I thought it was very well handled, although I will be truly disappointed and rather mad if that's all there is to it. They've built up his character way too much in the previous NJO books to just let him die like that. He has a destiny with Tahiri, and they've focused on his potential and importance in every book up until now. Plus, they made such a big deal about recovering his body that I doubt it was unintentional. Finally, the way he died, using so much of the Force, doesn't lead me to believe that he's finished forever. So I don't believe that he's dead, or if he is, he's not going to stay that way.

    And that also brings up the most haunting line I have ever read in a Star Wars story. Han's reply after he finds out is something that will not leave my mind for quite some time.

    "They killed our boy."

    The one that really shocked me was Coruscant falling to the Vong and they killed Borsk Fey'lya!!! Naturally, they redeemed him before he died, but wow!!! Damned noble way to go, too. The impression I'm left with is that at the end of the book, there is no New Republic left to speak of. Just a familiar group of rag-tag freedom fighters fighting for a nearly lost cause.

    Then you have Jaina turning to the Dark Side, using Force lightning...Jacen captured by Vergere, who may or may not still be a Jedi...*gasp for breath*

    Has anyone else read it yet? I'm dying to talk about it with someone...
  2. jedilona Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 4
    *slowly raises her hand*

    Yep, read it I have...
    It's been killing me to keep quiet too..
    I was shocked of course...
    I figured I was in for something huge when I saw the size of the book alone...I figured there was ALOT that was going to be said and done in this one....

    I had to reread part of it a few times, mainly because I couldn't believe it(or didn't want to)...

    :eek:


  3. Amidala Starkiller Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 1999
    star 6
    SxS is the best NJO book to date. But as much as I liked Anakin I really hope he stays dead. This isn't Star Trek!
  4. Kurgan1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2000
    star 3
    I still don't think he's gone. I remember they did much the same thing with Luke in previous books, and he certainly came back.

    However, I think that if Anakin does come back, it will be in a way that makes sense, and won't be cheap. This series has been obviously very well thought out, and I'm sure if they're planning something further with his character, it will fit within the storyline perfectly (unless, of course, they let that abomination of a writer Kathy Tyers write his return--that woman should be robbed and crunched!) ;)

    Although I still don't think any of the books hold a candle to any of the films, I'm finding myself enjoying the NJO more and more. They're taking a very dark turn, and although the writers are still ignoring SW's roots in mythology, these books are entertaining and well-written.

    All in all, this book was much more devastating than even The Empire Strikes Back, in terms of the amount of huge catastrophic events happening. And I definitely can't wait to see where they take it from here.

    BTW, any bets on whether or not Tim Zahn has already been signed on the fifth and final NJO hardback?
  5. Amidala Starkiller Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 1999
    star 6
    I heard Tim Zahn was coming back to write a Pre-ep1 novel. As long as Zahn stays away from Mara Jade, the unknown regions, and the chiss it should be a pretty good book.
  6. Kurgan1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2000
    star 3
    Hmmm, I sense someone has some rather strong opinions about the EU that Tim Zahn has created. ;)

    Don't worry, I probably share them.
  7. Amidala Starkiller Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 1999
    star 6
    I guess I hate Mara Jade soooooo much it's started to rub off on Zahn
  8. Kurgan1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2000
    star 3
    Interesting. I always liked Mara Jade myself, in the context of the EU, that is. As far as what I consider to be the 'real' Star Wars, it's just the movies. I'd go even farther to say that Tim Zahn created the EU and he created it with far too many flaws to ever be truly redeemed. Mara Jade was one of those flaw, but I found her to be a likeable flaw, if that makes any sense. :)

    What, if I may ask, makes you dislike the character?
  9. Amidala Starkiller Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 1999
    star 6
    I just never thought she was a Star Wars character and she doesn't deserve that big of a fan base.
  10. RB-wan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 2000
    star 2
    She's intriguing, believable, and undergoes her own Hero's Journey instead of being a weak Supporting Character good for one or two chapters before being mercifully killed off. THAT is why she has such a fan base. That says a lot for Tim Zahn, a Hugo winner who writes hard and military SF ( he wanted to be a physicist, for crying out loud! ) who was ASKED to write SW novels.

    Blame Lucasbooks for making her a corporate entity. Blame the other writers who have done a less-than-stellar job with her ( excepting Stackpole ). Blame everyone who calls her a Mary Sue or a knockoff of another character.

    She doesn't deserve a fanbase? That's almost like saying Eric Carr wasn't a real member of KISS.

    Bri
  11. Kurgan1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2000
    star 3
    Hey, hey, hey! Calm down. Most people like Mara Jade just fine. She's probably my second favorite EU character (but that could be more because I have a thing for redheads).

    However, I don't like the style that Zahn started things in. He took SW away from mythology and fantasy and made it more sci-fi. There is no underlying theme or threat in the EU books. Only in the New Jedi Order have they started that, but even that doesn't come close to the films. Plus, I think Zahn got a lot of things wrong about SW. This wouldn't have been a big deal if his Thrawn trilogy had come out after someone else had started the EU with more mythological roots. But he was the first, and every other writer had to follow his example and his continuity.

    Now don't get me wrong, I find most of the books in the EU to be immensely entertaining and well written. But that's about it. And it's a reason why I like Lucasfilm's decision to slowly bring all of the EU books under the Infinities line.
  12. Amidala Starkiller Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 1999
    star 6
    Hero's Journey? You mean when she blow up her ship VotF? Her character has yet to under go any real change since the TTT.

    I agree that the EU would alott better if it had any mythological roots.
  13. RB-wan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 2000
    star 2
    Hmm...sacrificed her ship, the one thing she really loved. Realized, however begrudgingly, that she and Luke were kindreds of a sort. Got back into life, rather than stay on the outskirts. Got married. Trained Jaina. Has a baby. Sounds a lot like growth to me.

    Now Brandon, I'm playing nice. Really. I'm just saying, take a look at all Mara has endured--and continues to endure--over the ten years she's been part of the EU. It's just not fair to slam the character--or the character's creator--simply because someone doesn't see it right away. G'wan, give it another chance, Amidala. <g>

    Good point about the mything...er, missing mythological link. Perhaps it is imbedded so heavily in the words and sequences that it isn't readily apparent...that is, it doesn't quite seem so "magical". But the whole bit with the Qom Qae and Qom Jha--from the HOT duology--really does seem like something from a fairytale. That's something, anyway.

    But then there IS one SW novel that handles it as more of a fantasy...and The Crystal Star is almost universally slammed.

    Well, that's my two centavos...I'm tired, my brain is fried, and all I can think about is the court hearing tomorrow. Discuss away.

    Bri

  14. Kurgan1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2000
    star 3
    Hey, I like Mara just fine, but Amidala is entitled to her opinion. Besides, I was the one who asked her why she felt that way.

    Moving on, I'm not saying there aren't mythological elements in the EU books. They simply aren't the SW mythology. As entertaining and well-written as some of them have been, they all fall short. Until the very end of the Bantam line, it was just a bunch of authors pretty much coming up with storylines on their own. This was a very sloppy decision by Lucasfilm, if you ask me. There was no cohesive storyline that spread throughout the books. Granted, towards the end of the Bantam line, they really tried to tie things together with great efforts like I, Jedi; the X-Wing books; the Han Solo trilogy, and Zahn's Hand of Thrawn duology. But there was only so much damage control they could do.

    The NJO is better in that aspect because they know exactly where the storyline is going (more or less--they have changed parts of it). But I think they're still missing some of the stuff that makes the movies so great. Where is the Sith? Why doesn't anyone in the books realize that the Jedi had this huge history? Yes, I understand that some of that stuff is just coming out now, but they've reduced the Jedi to these ineffectual worriers that just sit around and talk about their feelings (and eat pudding).

    One author would start a character's hero's quest, but another would completely contradict it. This still goes on even in the current series. What happened to the Skywalker legacy? Did they just up and forget that Leia is also the child of Darth Vader and has more Force potential than most of the trainees out there?

    Personally, I think if they brought the Sith back, and I do mean the REAL Sith, things would be better. Not just some stupid Jedi that decides to be evil *coughKypDurroncough*, but someone that had been trained from birth to be evil. The Emperor died almost 20 years before the NJO. That's plenty of time for a new Sith Master to arise (you don't really think the Emperor would have just let it die out like that with no contingency plan, do you?), and plenty of time for him to have trained a new Apprentice.

    What I would like to see happen is for the Sith to return behind the shadows, and enter into an alliance with the Yuuzhan Vong. Each side would be playing the other, but in the end, the Sith would emerge in control. And then, we have a fresh new take on an old, great theme. That would have the makings of a truly epic story.

    But, I kinda doubt something like that will happen. I just look at the EU books as fun reads. Because if I try to compare them to the movies, the books are always going to be disappointments, at least to me.

    And BTW, The Crystal Star is one of the single worst books ever written. It wasn't fantasy, it was just a fantastic work of crap. But even that isn't as bad by half as the Lando Calrissian books. *shudder*
  15. Amidala Starkiller Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 1999
    star 6
    And BTW, The Crystal Star is one of the single worst books ever written. It wasn't fantasy, it was just a fantastic work of crap. But even that isn't as bad by half as the Lando Calrissian books. *shudder*

    god that counldn't anymore true

    I'm just glad that The Crystal Star wasn't the first Star Wars book I read because I bet it would have been my last.

    And as for Mara I'll have to get back to her tomorrow (trying to get done with some school work)
  16. m0rpheus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2000
    star 2
    If I were responsible for the storyline of the NJO books I would do a number of things.

    First, I'd add a major plot twist and then have it be the focus of the rest of the series. First off I wouldn't have used the U.V. for this because it's too Science Fiction and not enough "fanstasy set in a space opera". I would do just what Brandon is suggesting: I would reveal the rise of a new Sith Lord whose goal is to bring the Sith back and establish it to be like it was befor the days of Darth Bane. My new Sith Lord would seek to have the Sith rise again and try to follow in Sidious' footsteps while learning from Sidious' mistakes. Then I'd have a Solo kid turn to the Dark Side and join up with this new Sith Lord as his/her apprentice. NOW you have a new risen Power Sith Lord and his Solo(Skywalker) apprentice begin wreaking havoc in the EU.

    Do you know how this would effect Han and Leia? It would be devastating. And what about Luke? Once again a Skywalker has fallen and followed in his/her grandfathers footsteps. It would make for some AWESOME drama. I mean, unspoken fears would be realized. Han could blame Luke for not training his child properly. Leia would feel like a failure as a mother and Jedi. But you know what I would do with this? I would shift the focus of the entire EU from Luke to Leia. This time, make it her heros journey because it's her child who has fallen. I'd focus on Leia being a true Jedi coming into her own and get her to stop repressing her destiny. You realaize how intense it would be to have that kind of conflict? What it would be like to have Leia confront one of her own children???!!! To have Leia make a decision about the greater good of the galaxy over that of her child lost to the dark side?

    Now I know they are going to be doing this with Jaina right now. It's a bit predictable. But I would do with the rise of the Sith again and not with the rise of the U.Vong

  17. Amidala Starkiller Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 1999
    star 6
    yes and no m0rpheus

    To bring back the Sith would be cool however I really think defeats the purpose Vader's sacrifice at the end of Jedi. If the Sith were bought back it would have to handled very carefully and I'm sad to say that I don't think it could be done.

    I've enjoyed the NJO (well ok not all of it) but it's a great direction to take the EU even with it's flaws.
  18. m0rpheus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2000
    star 2
    There's always the potential for Sith. And having the Sith rise again is not contradictory to what happened in the Holy Trilogy. To have them gain victory and establish an empire would be.
  19. old-master Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2001
    star 1
    About a year ago, the Doctor I work for loaned me the Zahn books and the beginning books of the invasion. I loaned him Asimov's robots books and the JRR's books. It was not a fair trade.

    The EU books are badly written, with little do with the main characters, or give them anything to do or say. The invasion is a good plot device,and united several authors over a series of books that has never been done before. However, I hated reading them. They could not live up to anything that the holy movies projected. Luke, Leia and the others were paper thin characters, and killing off the Wookie for these books was just a move to spark a grand moment for the books. It feel flat. I have vowed not longer to read the EU. Now the Tales of the Jedi comic, by Dark Horse are good, and that is the side of the SW universe to cover.
    The only series to cover material outside it's original trilogy and be successful was the Robotech's Sential series on Adm. Rick Hunters' Robotech Expedation Fleet. God, that was cool. It gave a dept and pushed out the Robotech universe with respect. And the others were Capt. Harlock, the Gundum series. and the three Starblazers series. The missions of the Argo and the development of the main characters is wonderful. It still gives a warm and fuzzy feeling all over when I hum the theme song. The EU feels like it was due for money.
    old-master has spoken..........
  20. m0rpheus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2000
    star 2
    I'm with you old-master. I've felt the same way about the EU for some time. And killing the wookie..I think it was sensationalism, however it was powerful. Geez, poor Han. You realize all this man has been through? Tortured by the Empire, frozen in carbonite, sold as decoration, thawed out, temporary blindness, thought the woman he loved was in love with another (Luke and also that prince in that horrible EU book), watched his best friend die on a planet that was destroyed (Chewie) and now has had his son, Anakin, alledgedly die, and one of his kids turn to the dark side. I wish these writers would leave this guy alone! But here's a thought. What if he never walked into that cantina all those years ago?! :)
  21. old-master Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2001
    star 1
    Prehaps, Han could sue Luke for "emotional damages."
    In court, they could prove that Han's pain could be traced to that faithful day in the bar. Star witnesses.....Luke using the force to alter Han's mind. "A settlement will do fine."
    old-master has spoken.......
  22. LeChuck Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2001
    star 1
    hey

    For the most part I enjoyed the Zahn trilogy and the KJA trilogy. Reading Children of the Jedi,the Corillian trilogy, and Shadows of the Empire, left a bad taste for the EU for me.
    I Am in aggrement with the others, and say that the characters have been written to death. I found it refreshing to read the Stackpole novels, in that they contributed to new characters and had more Technical elements of Science Fiction. Tales of the Jedi and Dark Horse offer even more in original stories and characters then those of the EU novels. I find it hard to follow The NJO series in that it really have nothing new to offer for me.



    BTW-hello DFW fanforce. This is just my opinion and I truly dont mean to Bash the NJO.

    :)
  23. jango-joe1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2001
    star 4
    The NJO has it's moments...I just like the invasion cause Luke , Leia, Han and everybody else was looking like they were unstoppable...here comes the Vong. I read some EU books, but I only have two that are my favorite out of the whole batch. I have a hard time beleiving what Jacen decided to do. Star By Star has got to be one of my favorite EU book (makes that #3) action, suspense, drama...everything that's in a SW movie. Mara Jade, I have to say is one of the most undeveloped characters...Some people like her...and some don't. I don't like her cause she just #%^%$$ at Luke sometimes...and in Star By Star all she is doing during the height of the Invasion is taking care of Ben.

    This pulls back to a line in TPM spoken to Anakin

    Qui-Gon: You cannot change a person's opinion Ani...every one is entitled to his or her opinion.

    You can find it in the deleted scenes during Anakin's fight with Greedo

    Peace Out
    Jango-Joe1
  24. Amidala Starkiller Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 1999
    star 6
    hello sweetheart

    hey i liked Children of the Jedi
  25. jango-joe1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2001
    star 4
    Dark Apprentice
    Champions of the Force
    Star by Star
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.