Star Destroyers Shielding

Discussion in 'Literature' started by PrinceXizor, Nov 5, 2001.

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  1. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    The A-wings were under the shields. Get it? That means their laser shots were not hindered in any way by the shields.

    Some people...
  2. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    The bridge deflector shield was probably directly covering the Bridge and not the Tower...

    "THE FRONT OF THE SHIELD DEFLECTOR SHIELD IS OUT"

    for instance would be more accurate.

    As for the two shield generators no doubt they covered the entire ship, however my guess is the shield deflectors were completely out on the executor...they were just destroying the generators so they couldn't regenerate.

  3. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    No, the shields were still up for the most part. But the generators were very overtaxed and once one of the shield generators blew, the deflectors in the bridge area went completely down.
  4. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

    VIP
    Member Since:
    May 9, 2000
    star 6
    No...!

    Bib: if the fighters were under the shields, why weren't they attacking the bridge directly?! Piett would have already intensified forward firepower if the swarming starfighters were under the shield...

    Charlemagne: but that's not what they said, is it? ;)

    Also, the Executor has at least four visible sets of paired domes...

    But if you're saying the shields were already down, you're now admitting that the 'attack the domes to bring down the shields' idea in the EU is wrong...

    And if we discount all instances of that 'tactic', what's left to say that the domes are shield-generators? Ultimately, the idea is based only on an untenable interpretation of the destruction of the Ex...

    - The Imperial Ewok
  5. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    This is another example of someone just following what the films present, and ignoring later works of the EU, whether they are based on misinformation or not.

    The idea is to bridge the gap between the movies and EU, so that everything fits together as an explanation.

    If someone can provide credible information that the shield generators can double as sensor domes, please bring your theory forward. That is what I want to see.
  6. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    The A-wings' plan was probably to take down the shields and get the hell out of there and let the capital ships finish it off with longrange counterfire.

  7. III_Vir_RPC Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 1
    Actually, messieurs, careful examination of the scene in question demonstrates quite clearly that the shields of the flagship, HIMS Executor, were not, in fact, brought down by starfighter attacks on the domes whose function is under contention, but that the shields were already disabled.

    Consult your copy of the novelisation of Return of the Jedi:

    Chapter VIII:

    The captain left. An aide approached.

    ?Forward ships have made contact with the Imperial fleet, sir.?

    ?Concentrate your fire on their power generators. If we can knock out their shields, our fighters might stand a chance against them.?


    Chapter IX:

    The Falcon plunged to the surface of the Death Star, followed by hordes of Rebel fighters, followed by a still-massing but disorganized array of Imperial TIE fighters?while three Rebel Star Cruisers headed for the huge Imperial Super Star Destroyer, Vader?s flagship, which seemed to be having difficulties with its guidance system.


    and

    Ackbar stared wild-eyed out the observation window. He was looking down onto the deck of the Super Star Destroyer; only miles away. Fires burst out over the entire stern, and the Imperial warship was listing badly to starboard.

    ?We?ve knocked out their forward shields,? Ackbar said into the comlink. ?Fire at the bridge.?

    Green Leader?s group swooped in low, from bottomside, up from the Death Star.

    ?Glad to help out, Home-One,? called Green Leader.

    ?Firing proton torpedoes,? Green Wing advised.

    The bridge was hit, with kaleidoscopic results. A rapid chain reaction got set off, from power station to power station along the middle third of the huge Destroyer, producing a dazzling rainbow of explosions that buckled the ship at right angles, and started it spinning like a pinwheel toward the Death Star.

    The first bridge explosion took Green Leader with it; the subsequent uncontrolled joyride snagged ten more fighters, two cruisers, and an ordnance vessel. By the time the whole exothermic conglomerate finally crashed into the side of the Death Star, the impact was momentous enough to actually jolt the battle station, setting off internal explosions and thunderings all through its network of reactors, munitions, and halls.


    Thus, a short summary of the battle may be made, combining the combat scenes shown in the film itself and the more detailed description of the battle in the novelisation.

    First, the rebel fleet opened fire on the Imperial Star Destroyers, which did not return fire. Remember, this is at the beginning of the battle, before the Destroyers actively engaged the rebel fleet. The rebel fleet was at this time deliberately attempting to disable the line of battle ships? defensive screens, in order to allow starfighters to attack them with some semblance of success.

    Admiral Ackbar then gave orders to close to point-blank range?a range to which the lighter gunports of the Calamarian cruisers were far better suited for action than the monstrous gun turrets on Imperial Star Destroyers.

    Once the Death Star?s defensive shield was disabled, three full-fledged cruisers, marginally comparable to Star Destroyers in capabilities despite inferior armour and guns, moved to engage the ailing flagship, HIMS Executor. Admiral Ackbar shortly thereafter gave orders that the fleet should concentrate all firepower on the flagship.

    Here is where the confusion enters into the situation.

    The novel clearly shows that the rebel starfighters moved en masse toward the Death Star, only to return to give support to the ships of the line in their attack on the flagship. The film shows A-wings delivering what many perceive to be the coup de grâce to the flagship. Integration of the sources reveals something most interesting.

    The A-wings, part of Green Leader?s group, returned from the Death Star, after Admiral Ackbar announces that the forward shields have been disabled and that the bridge is vulnerable. Green Leader and Green Win
  8. darthjarjarbinks Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2000
    star 4
    Thrawn McEwok- "Bib: if the fighters were under the shields, why weren't they attacking the bridge directly?! Piett would have already intensified forward firepower if the swarming starfighters were under the shield..."

    Okay, I think that the whole shield things is reeaaaallly confusing and sources probably contradict one another, but I'll try and answer that.

    We are aware of two forms of defensive shielding- ray and particle.

    What if the PARTICLE shielding is HULL-CONTOUR-CONFORMING whereas the RAY SHIELD is A BUBBLE, not hull-contour-conforming.

    THEN, the rebel fighter slipped under the bubble of the ray shielding, took out the particle deflector shield generator and then this allowed the a-wing to smash into the bridge.

    That any better?

    And maybe the two domes are like this

    Left dome- ray shield generator- generates the energy for the entire ray shield bubble.
    Right dome- particle shield generator- generates the POWER used to supply various subsidiary shield projectors around the ships, such as a bridge deflector shield, bow shields, aft shields etc...

    This is all just conjecture... :)
  9. Fluke_Groundwalker Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2001
    star 5
    Settle, children.

    Frankly, I'm really not old enough, and haven't read enough, to give you my input. But, based on the facts, I also believe that the domes were in fact, the shield generators.
  10. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

    VIP
    Member Since:
    May 9, 2000
    star 6
    Howzabout this, Sturm - in battle, the ISD uses its main sensor array primarily to angle the deflectors against incoming fire... we know from ANH that deflectors can be 'angled', or switched to 'double front', channeling most or all of their power into only certain parts of the deflector grid...

    A single 'shield projector' (which is something different from a shield generator/sensor dome) can project a local shield of almost unimaginable strength, but even an ISD's stardrive is unable to produce enough power to give all the shields anything like their theoretical maximum strength any one time...

    This channeling of power to a single projector is 'generating' a shield, as opposed to simply 'raising' the shields (I've never heard anyone in SW say 'generate shields!', or anything like it)... and so the sensor domes are called 'shield generators'...

    If the deflector domes are damaged, so is the 'shield generator' system, and the deflectors are much weaker at point-of-impact, making it much easier to damage the ship...

    Now all we have to do is explain exactly why this is called 'generating' a shield...

    Bib: let me quote from RotJ yet again - "we've lost our bridge deflectors!"... bridge deflectors...

    III: thanks!

    Darth: that almost makes sense, y'know... :)

    - The Imperial Ewok
  11. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    Sounds good to me. I just don't want to negate any sources of any kind, including various blueprints that list the domes as being "shield generators" ( which we'll think of as shield projectors if need be. )

    And we all know that the blueprints can't get too detailed. We can think of many ideas and theories to fill in the gaps of an ISD's schematic.
  12. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Tears essay I posted above actually explains it all in detail. It's also quite true that the shields were down before crynyd destroyed the bridge.

    The a-wings did not bring down the shields previously.

    What is the point of destroying the domes? It was to ensure that they were not reactivated, after the systems were repaired. Thus disabling the the shields from being activated again.

    Tears above essay also explains about secondary shield generation.
  13. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Again the idea is that they are sensor domes just doesn't make any sense.

    No offense for all we know by your statement they could be fuel depots, where the Captain keeps his mistresses, or a carnival ride for the Executor that started because the Emperor loves Epcot center.

    They make the most sense as shield generators however.

    In my opinion here's what happened at the battle of Endor.

    * The rebel fleet attacked the Executor head on and it's escort which was completely unexpected...

    * Piett discovering the weapons and shielding systems were unprotected by fire as they should be scrambled to keep the ship under control.

    * The shields went down as they executor's heavy turbolasers and weapons against the main fleet were knocked out by precision fire.

    * The Shield generators were targeted to be destroyed and one overloaded along with concussion fire.

    * The shield down Piett scrambled to get the bridge secrue as the ship would either retreat or fight to the last.

    * A A-wing hoping to hit the shield towers or bridge itself kamakized into Piett's room.

    * Suddenly losing the altitude controls as it was caught in the Death Star's gravity the crew was unable to operate the secondary bridge (in my games ISDs have them)

    and it collided with the construct
  14. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    Actually, they make perfect sense as sensor domes. That's the main argument of the people following the movies more than the WEG sources.

    Having a sensor dome on the highest point of the vessel, able to scan in almost every direction is a top priority.

    Having a shield generation system on the highest point of a vessel, open to turbolaser and missile fire is *not* a good idea.

    But my idea is to combine all the sources and theories into one plausible explanation, without invalidating any sources. That's my intent with anything in the continuity of the SW universe.
  15. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Yet, the sensor package(X shaped thing) is right between the domes it is on the highest point along with the domes. It's in the good place.
  16. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    hmm I was reminded that's the communication array, where are the sensors, then?
  17. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Ok, checked, the sensors are located in arrays all over the ship, in all directions for 360 scanning.
  18. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    True.

    It could be that for a large ship like an ISD, sensors could be all over the place, but the "main" sensor array is in between the domes.

    I guess the area behind the bridge is a blind spot, where the Millennium Falcon hid.
  19. Knight1192 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    Why do I get the feeling that Thrawn McEwok is the guy who runs the Technical commentaries, or one oif his biggest supporters.
  20. Lt_Kettch Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2001
    ok the shield domes are on the top to properly project the shield which form a sphere which is mentioned in NJO countless times. next the ssd have 3 generators 2 in the normal spot and one in the middle ( i think).
  21. Doright Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 1999
    star 5
    Sensor domes on top would have trouble scanning below the ship. I would think sensors would be found in more than one spot on a ISD to eliminate blind spots.

    Shielding if a dome or some other shape could be made in on place (on top) and still cover the ship.

  22. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    Yes, scanners are located all over the ship, but apparently not directly behind the bridge.
  23. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    The engine emmisions probably interfere with scanning.
  24. III_Vir_RPC Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 1
    Again the idea is that they are sensor domes just doesn't make any sense.


    Actually, the idea does make sense, considering that they look like radar domes on modern warships, and are in analogous positions. The USS Enterprise CVN-65 has domes almost identical on its conning tower.

    Piett discovering the weapons and shielding systems were unprotected by fire as they should be scrambled to keep the ship under control.


    Actually, the flagship began suffering from major, noticeable guidance control failure prior to engaging three rebel star cruisers. The difficulty experienced by the flagship had nothing to do with lack of protection, and everything to do with an internal failure.

    The shields went down as they executor's heavy turbolasers and weapons against the main fleet were knocked out by precision fire.


    The shields were disabled, and the entire stern was badly damaged, with flames venting from sections of the superstructure. By the time the shields were disabled, the flagship was already in bad condition. The shields were already down prior to the re-entrance of the starfighters, exposing the flagship to considerable ship of the line turbolaserfire.

    The Shield generators were targeted to be destroyed and one overloaded along with concussion fire.


    Admiral Ackbar had already issued orders to the fleet to concentrate fleet firepower on disabling power generators in order to enable the starfighters to damage ships of the line. In other words, this was not done by starfighters, but by capital ships.

    A A-wing hoping to hit the shield towers or bridge itself kamakized into Piett's room.


    Don't be preposterous, monseigneur. Green Leader clearly and deliberately collided his interceptor with the command deck; the chances of his starfighter accidentally approaching at the angle it did are effectively nil. The attack on the flagship's bridge was always intended as a kamikaze attack.

    Suddenly losing the altitude controls as it was caught in the Death Star's gravity the crew was unable to operate the secondary bridge (in my games ISDs have them) and it collided with the construct


    Again, don't be preposterous. The Death Star II did not have that much gravity---in order to influence so massive a body as the flagship in so short a time, the Death Star should have to have incredible mass... and would have extremely detrimental effects to the atmosphere of the Sanctuary Moon.

    Gravity has nothing to do with the collision; the flagship was clearly described as listing badly to starboard when the command deck was destroyed, and the guidance controls were malfunctioning. The flagship was already manoeuvring toward the Death Star II when her bridge was hit, and continued that manoeuvre, accelerating due to considerable damage done to her power systems.
  25. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    Hmm. I always got the sense that Green Leader's crash was an accident. He certainly wasn't in control of his ship in any way.
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