Discussion in 'Community' started by The2ndQuest
, Aug 5, 2016.
Also, Harry Kim is the most complex and interesting character in all of television.
But... that's not Harry Kim anymore!
Kim was more interesting than that helmsman on Ent. What was his name? Mayweather? A mannequin parked at the helm would have had more life.
DS9 is worth the time investment, especially if you liked TNG- the first two seasons, like most Trek shows, can be rough at times but there are some real gems in there and you have the occasional TNG link to carry you through. Then, by time you hit the fourth season, you get a larger expansion and continuation of the Klingon plotlines begun in TNG, so there will be some familiarity there as well, even if the show itself is, overall, going in new directions.
And i wouldn't let the serialized storytelling dissuade you, darthcaedus1138 - I mean, you'd be presumably watching it on Netflix or disc so you'd have easy access to everything and not have to worry about tracking things over weeks/months/years and would be, generally/eventually, not too dissimilar from most most modern shows.
I haven't finished Voyager yet (almost done with the 5th season) and, while it isn't as rewarding an experience as TNG or DS9 as it ultimately lacks the focus, direction or cast harmony, it still has some good episodes buried in there, but I would probably consult an list of the better episodes (or wait until I finish my VOY analysis in my project thread ). It being mostly unserialized makes it easier to skip large portions of the series if one desires to.
VOY strength tended to be in its two part event episodes and stand alones that drew upon some kind of horror aspect, as well as most things focusing on Tuvok, the Doctor or Seven. Tim Russ, in particular, doesn't get enough credit, IMO, for how well he portrayed Tuvok.
Just at a glance, you could probably condense Voyager down to about 60 episodes (about 1/3rd of the total number of episodes in the series) and get all the key event episodes and the important connecting tissue for any ongoing storylines as well as the most notable standalones.
With a little more harsher trimming, you could probably get that number down into the 40-45 range (or, roughly equivalent to 2 seasons worth of episodes vs the 7 overall) and, if one were to pare it down to just the basics for an overview of the series highlights, 25-30 episodes (~1 season) wouldn't be unreasonable.
Compared to DS9 where you're probably going to need (and want) to watch the last 2-3 seasons in their entirely, can shave off only a few episodes in the middle seasons and can only really do significant trimming to the first 2 seasons, etc, etc.
I was speaking more about the amount of episodes and relative quality of said episodes. I suffered through the first few seasons of TNG for the gold that the show became, I've heard much more mixed things about DS9 and Voyager, and Enterprise's stench has reached my nostrils.
I know it was a joke, just wanted to explain myself.
I just know how Star Trek has tended to tell its stories and get a lot of mileage out of its characters and situations. I prefer serialized stories for most shows but Star Trek is a different beast and if you're stuck in a storyline you don't like ot that isn't good you can't just wipe it away and wait for next week to be completely different.
Well, if it helps any, while DS9 has a lot of ongoing storylines, they're not generally serialized episode to episode. So you might get a return to Religious Subplot #14 or Character X for an episode or two but then it'll rotate over to War Subplot #7 and Character M or to an entirely stand alone episode about building a replica of an old (non-combat) ship.
In that regards, it's really not any different than TNG (especially for the first 3 seasons)- you get occasional 2-parters and Big Event episodes spaced out amongst standalones. Where they differ is that, with DS9 being a station and not a ship, those standalones tend to feature more recurring characters than Random Species Planet of the Week.
The only times the show gets truly serialized is for the opening 6 episodes of the sixth season (the primary Dominion War arc of the series) and the final 10 episodes of the seventh. Even then, the 6-parter is more like stand alone war stories bridging the season premiere to a core 2-parter while that 10-parter is effectively the series finale, is broken into 2 or 3 separate sections and uses the time to (mostly) help wrap up the plotlines for the (rather numerous) cast.
Big Star Trek Discovery news wrap up, full court press tour beginning (and just ramping up for the next 2 weeks). Trekmovie has a good breakdown
they also have an article on "Where were the TOS crew during Discovery"
Entertainment Weekly goes into the Klingons a bit more
“The allegory is that we really started working on the show in earnest around the time the election was happening,” showrunner Aaron Harberts says. “The Klingons are going to help us really look at certain sides of ourselves and our country. Isolationism is a big theme. Racial purity is a big theme. The Klingons are not the enemy, but they do have a different view on things. It raises big questions: Should we let people in? Do we want to change? There’s also the question of just because you reach your hand out to someone, do they have to take it? Sometimes, they don’t want to take it. It’s been interesting to see how the times have become more of a mirror than we even thought they were going to be.”
Klingons being into racial purity and isolationism may be a bit jarring but, to be fair, they seem to be totally into those things. how much was poor Worf bagged on for being raised by humans?
And, for Canadian viewers, it seems to have finally been settled down exactly what/how/when it hits broadcast on Space and streaming on CraveTV
Basically, Sunday Sept 24th is the 2 hour broadcast on Space and Monday Sept 25th at 8 PM it hits CraveTV. this will continue each week wherein new eps = Sundays on Space (apparently there's also a Space app) and Mondays on CraveTV at 8 PM.
The Klingons in TNG and DS9 did always seem to have an racistical undertone with the theme of purity in the background.
Especially with Worf and his hate of the Romulans and his disgust of the Ferengi in the background.
That raises an interesting question- given that Trek tended to hard-code certain behaviors into each race, are the characters being racist when they actively dislike those qualities? When it's a defined racial quality, not a racist stereotype, it's has a different (unintended, I'm sure) effect.
For instance, Worf doesn't dislike Romulans and Ferengi for being Romulans and Ferengi, but rather because Romulans are deceitful and act without an honor code while Ferengi are also treacherous and greedy, etc.
Well, that is still racist, since Star Trek has often demonstrated that while species have dominant cultures they are not monolithic. For example, many Klingons don't share Worf's rigid concept of "honor." Plus, Worf has explicitly expressed hatred for the Romulan species, such as that episode where he refused to donate blood to a dying Romulan.
Even Riker has had his moments. In "Descent Part 1" when he's describing the Borg's new behavior, he says, "They were fast, aggressive, almost vicious. It was more like fighting Klingons than Borg. No offense." Worf responds, "None taken."
The Ferengi have come a long way, haven't they? Or maybe not, I didn't really watch DS9
It depends. Quark does have his cunning, plotting moments (at least according to Odo), but Nog becomes the first Ferengi to join Starfleet, and Quark's brother, Rom, doesn't seem your typical Ferengi either.
... because they killed his family (also due to their lack of honor). Hell, even The West Wing covered something similar with an Iranian refugee doctor refusing to operate on the Shah's youngest son being secretly flown into the US for an operation because the government (of Iran) killed his family.
And? The Romulan had nothing to do with Khitomer. It's racism. The episode made it clear. Hell, the racism was mutual.
Yes, though I imagine Worf skipped most of those episodes, outside of Nog's arc.
To give credit where credit is due, Worf was impressed by the tooth sharpener tool Nog had used as a youngster. IIRC, he bought it for his own use. All those years in Starfleet really did teach him to be open to other cultures, obviously.
Worf is not a merry man!
I guess he's not a married man, either.
Not saying that Worf wasn't racist because he definitely said negative stereotypes about Romulans all the time; but in this case I can see how giving blood to a member of the same military organization that murdered his family would be uncomfortable regardless of what their species was. It's kind of murky with Worf because yes he's racist and I'm all for acknowledging/criticizing it but he also has a legitimate grievance and reason to feel hostile towards the Romulan authorities.
And Quark's mom wore clothes!
IMO, Wallace Shawn made the Ferengi episodes worth watching. The man is a comic genius. I just wish at some point Grand Nagus Zek had said, "Inconceivable!"
The only really bad Ferengi episode I remember is "Profit (Prophet?) and Lace." One of the worst DS9 episodes period.
That's one that maybe could've looked somewhat amusing on paper, but in reality onscreen....no, it absolutely wasn't.
Yeah well, she died, so...not anymore.