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Amph Star Trek: Discovery [CBS All Access/Netflix/CraveTV]

Discussion in 'Community' started by The2ndQuest , Aug 5, 2016.

  1. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    I doubt it, and I don't like it either. Tyler is the "bad guy" in disguise or hiding or whatever. We don't need two of them.

    I think it's just fans hoping we didn't actually get a Starfleet captain who acts as Lorca does. He's supposed to be a guy who is deeply ****ed up by his experiences in the war with the Klingons. That's it. Maybe he's still hiding something, but it's not something huge like him being the Mirror Universe counterpart of the "real" Lorca. A Mirror Universe Terran would not have given a **** about the sentient plant planet, and he would not have been able to hide his extreme nature for long. Terrans aren't exactly subtle.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
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  2. DebonaireNerd

    DebonaireNerd Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Just caught the new episode last night. I actually learned about the twist before watching the episode and I was dreading to watch it to be honest. But, I actually enjoyed it more than I expected and believe this could be a fun little arc to see the season out. My only complaints are that I felt Sylvia's comedy was a bit forced and, frankly, should have seen the ship destroyed.

    Also,

    did they really just kill ANOTHER main character that we were just getting to know? Really?
     
  3. darthcaedus1138

    darthcaedus1138 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2007
    It just seems like there was some purpose to him changing the spore drive jump. Unless it's that he just wants to get away from any kind of responsibility for his actions and sees jumping to a different universe as his escape from that. But he seems perfectly onboard with trying to get back. And Lorca doesn't give a **** about the plant planet other than as a way to win the war. He's found a way to use his aggressive, warrior nature while also coopting Federation technology that can travel across dimensions. He's ruthless and willing to leave that Admiral to the Klingons unless specifically ordered to rescue her and emotionally manipulates his crew by using emotional cues and promises. While I think it's entirely likely Lorca is just some Federation guy who got emotionally fractured by a rough war experience, I think him being an exiled ruler from the mirror universe to be perfectly acceptable as well. Context is for kings, as he said himself.

    And I don't see Tyler as a bad guy in disguise, he's a good guy along for a ride on top of a bad guy's mind/body, and we're not sure when Voq might rear his ugly head again in anything but random flashes of Klingon violence or a struggle to maintain control of the body.
     
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  4. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    so it sounded like Voq was crushed and reformatted into Tyler, it what I'm guessing so it's Voq's body with Tyler's mind in there as well. Tyler's body is probably in that Klingon Corpse Room or whatever. Or maybe they ate it. I mean there was a real Lt. Tyler, which is why he passing the security checks and so forth and had a history and so forth, not just "random guy who didn't exist before Lorca found him."

    I thought he would eventually suppress his Voq-ness and we'd have good, faithful Tyler along for the ride on the show but the Doctor Neck Snap isn't really a thing a good guy comes back from to be hunky dory crewmember. Maybe. It IS Star Trek, after all, there's been weirder things.

    Oh but they spoiled on after Trek that

    the good Doctor "isn't 100% dead", whatever that means. Is he going to get the Pike Beep Chair? I love the Pike Beep Chair!
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
  5. darthOB1

    darthOB1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2000
    Uhm I think they meant that he is still alive in mirror. You don’t survive a broken neck
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
  6. darthcaedus1138

    darthcaedus1138 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2007
    I think space spores May say otherwise
     
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  7. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I agree but, well, they delve it a bit more on Trekmovie After Trek recap and

    https://trekmovie.com/2018/01/07/st...nners-tease-return-of-not-100-dead-character/

    No Mirror Culber
    Now, if you think that they are talking about Wilson Cruz returning as the Mirror Universe version of Culber, that does not appear to be the case. Earlier in the show the showrunners said that we will not see a Mirror Culber, with Berg noting they wanted to be sure he stayed “pure” as a character.

    But they do show in that very article they had Mirror Culber art made but apparently no Mirror Culber. So, yeah, Space Spore mircale maybe.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
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  8. soitscometothis

    soitscometothis Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 11, 2003
    I assumed that Stamets babbling about "the palace" (did I remember that right?) means his Mirror counterpart is living in the Terran emperor's palace, and is either (a) the Emperor, or (b) is romantically involved with the Emperor (i.e. Mirror Culber); probably (a) because we know Rapp does crazy well.
     
  9. seeker_two

    seeker_two Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2003
    After a little thought, I believe that the Klingons found a way to put Voq's consciousness into Tyler's body....maybe technology like was seen on "Turnabout Intruder" or "What Little Girls Are Made Of". That's the only way I could see Ty'Voq passing genetic scans....

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
     
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  10. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    You'd think that'd be easier but Doctor Cubler said that Tyler had been crushed and reformed or something along those lines.

    Edit: here it is:

    "Right, that's what the computer concluded when you first came aboard. But I've run more advanced tests, and if I'm reading these chondroblast-cell scans correctly, what the Klingons did to you can only be described as bone-crushing. They opened up your limbs. And they appear to have shortened your radius, your femurs, even your spinal cord."
    "What are you getting at?"
    "Well, this is just a theory, Tyler, but remember we confirmed that no personality engrams were hidden under your native identity?"
    "Okay."
    "Well there's some research that suggests that a new personality could be placed atop it, like an overlay, with the original personality still intact underneath. It appears that the Klingons have transformed you. Both mentally and physically."
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
  11. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Watched it again, great little bit of business is one wide shot when Saru is explaining to Lorca that they swapped places with the ISS Discovery and watch Issac's hands cuz he's sort of pointing in opposite directions with a somewhat confused look on his face as he's trying to put it together. Also, as mentioned before, Issacs said he talked with Frakes about "what to do with your hands" since there aren't any pockets, and Frakes directed this episode, so a bit of "hands acting", pretty funny once you notice it.

    While I can buy the Voq twist, the Lorca from the Mirror-verse may be a wee bit harder to accept (if true) if only because Isaccs is so good at selling Lorca with conviction that he's the first time in this situation as well. Also as @Darth Guy mentioned, it' be kind of hard for a Terran Empire person to keep their business together for so long undercover, I mean, Spock threw the Mirror-verse crew in the brig after, what, five minutes cuz they immediately lost their minds? But I think Lorca is Mirror-Lorca could be really cool however may need a bit more explaining to accept, unlike Voq which you can see he's frazzled from the whole thing. Maybe Mirror-Lorca is suffering from PTSD Mirror-verse style wherein he actually becomes rather friendly, in comparison.

    Anyway, best line of the episode belongs to Captain Killy: "Well, let's not keep these $%@^%$ waiting!"
     
  12. darthOB1

    darthOB1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2000
    I don’t think Lorca would be from mirror verse. Wouldn’t they detect his quantum signature to be different? Wasn’t that the reason they had to use a device to prevent their different quantum signatures from being detected?
     
  13. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005

    Quantum Signatures differentiated between alternate universes weren't discovered until Worf had his little adventure in TNG.
     
  14. darthOB1

    darthOB1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2000
    Not according to latest show.
     
  15. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Screen shot from this episode of Trekyards comparing the wireframe of the Defiant used on ENT with the wireframe of the ISS Enterprise from TOSR with the wireframe glimpse of Defiant from DIS:

    [​IMG]

    Ignoring the oddity of having to go from one to the other "and, effectively, back" again this makes it easier to compare some of the changes made to Defiant over the years: the saucer was lowered with a sturdier neck and the bend in the pylons is used to bring the nacelles down to remain in sync with the saucer. The nacelles themselves are also rotated and you have what appears to be megaphasers at the pylon hinge.There's also the DIS-style double prongs on the deflector as well as the obvious cutouts in the saucer (which actually correspond to/align with the windows and landing gear on the original model) and the not-so-obvious bulked-up impulse engine mount and secondary hull fin.

    A fan, Shea Walker, did some quick renders (though it doesn't have all of the new details, like the impulse engines) by modifying an existing classic Connie, which gives you a rough idea of the look in terms of proportions (although no doubt DIS will make it look much different):

    (collapsible for size)
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  16. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Only answer I have for that is nobody's done a quantum signature scan on Lorca yet. Culber didn't discover all of the wonky stuff with "Tyler" until he took a closer look. Blamed it on the computer, actually.
     
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  17. Darth Caliban

    Darth Caliban Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 2015
    I'm almost sure now that Lorca is from the Mirror Universe. Look at him almost saying goodbye to Burnham. He doesn't expect to stay captain for long after that point and there were subtle clues that he knows more about that place than he let on.

    By the way if he's Mirror Lorca and also stays Captain of the Discovery, it could be that he becomes Garth of Izar. As that name didn't appear on the list of the best captains, Saru asked the computer about.
    That would mean we have seen a mirror universe person in TOS, we didn't know about at this point.
     
  18. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Yes, because he knows he might get executed. And of course he knows about the Mirror universe by that point. They retrieved that data core.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018 at 6:57 AM
  19. Darth Caliban

    Darth Caliban Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 2015
    I got the feeling he knows more about the Mirror Universe than just what they learnt from the salvaged data core. And wasn't it Lorca who manipulated the last jump that brought them there...
     
  20. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    There are other reasons he could have manipulated the jump. Plus unless there's a spore drive he used in the Mirror universe he would have no idea how to get there using the Discovery.
     
  21. darthOB1

    darthOB1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2000
    I just watched again. When Lorca first hears that they are in a different universe, there is a look of confusion and WTF, not recognition.
    No way Lorca is from mirror universe.
     
  22. KissMeImARebel

    KissMeImARebel Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    Yeah that's definitely not a coincidence that they keep referencing the emperor and Stamets keeps talking about a palace.
     
  23. darthOB1

    darthOB1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2000
    Ok they are going full blown crazy. Empress, mirror Voq.
    Something tells me someone’s going to be transferred to their non native universe.
     
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  24. KissMeImARebel

    KissMeImARebel Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    Okay after 1x11 I'm pretty sure that our Lorca is Mirror Lorca. He brought Michael back to the MU to get close to the Emperor. He seemed strangely protective of her in previous episodes (I'm blanking on the specifics but I remember thinking that it was really odd at the time). He was keeping her safe for his plan.

    Personally I'd rather it NOT be true because I think Lorca is much more compelling as a Prime Universe Starfleet captain gone wrong and because if he is MU Lorca I don't see him continuing as a regular past season one ... but yeah, I think that's where the show is headed.
     
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  25. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    There was a straight-up closeup of Lorca giving a mysterious grin when the Emperor appeared to Burnham. I don't think someone from the Prime-verse would react like that unless Lorca had some sort of knowledge about it. Issacs is soooo good, though, I really hope they keep him around somehow. Did anyone notice after an extended stay on the Agony Booth that his southern accent slipped back in? They really did a number on him!

    As good as the final scene was, my favourite stuff was Tyler going Full Voq. Super menacing, actually, even moreso than when he was in the Klingon makeup. But Voq meets Mirror-Voq was super weird and had him tweaking out and his reveal to Burnham was so very awesome.

    And, hey, Mirror Sarek Goatee! And the situation with Stammets got even weirder. Guess Tilly isn't going to make the command path if she kind of killed him.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018 at 6:25 PM
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