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Amph Star Trek: Discovery [CBS All Access/Netflix/CraveTV]

Discussion in 'Community' started by The2ndQuest , Aug 5, 2016.

  1. redxavier

    redxavier Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2003
    These twists don't feel organic to the story at all, as if they're thrown in as wild ideas to spice things up and the writers themselves are either bored or lack confidence in their story. Not only are the twists and revelations rendering a lot of the previously told episodes rather pointless (ie, what are we to make of the groundhog day episode now?) but they undermine the character development that we've seen unfold on screen. What was wrong with a Federation Captain who tread too close to the line, who was weighed down with the burden of fighting a war and getting his hands dirty?

    I wonder what Lorca's plan will turn out to have been, given the completely improbable and long-winded route it has taken to get to this point.
     
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  2. Likewater

    Likewater Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2009
    I think its a lack of confidence, its the second half of season 1 and we are just now seeing the founding races of the federation...alternate reality versions. I think it is good to experiment, but their is a lack of certainty in the writing. Like reading a new author who is finding their voice.
     
  3. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    The Voq twist I actually like a lot and think it works thematically. Like the very first shot of the show is Klingon fanaticism and you can follow that thread to the Tyler/Voq thing. It tracks in a twisted way. The Lorca twist I think is decent in a "Oooh, what a twist!" sort of way, and it lets Jason Issacs play the big bad crazy, but there isn't anything thematically from the early episodes that would lead to "by the way, your Captain is from an evil parallel universe". Unless one counts his "context is for kings" speech in the very same episode but that's a bit a stretch. The light sensitivity is kinda cool but also kinda dopey, which is a thing in Star Trek. But the "Burnham realizes it with random episode flashback clips" put together the pieces ... somewhat competently. And, as mentioned it is a real difficult that a Terran could keep it on the downlow for that long in the Prime verse but, hey, I can buy it cuz Jason Issacs. Damn shame if this only leads to Captain Lorca not being on the show anymore, though, cuz I think he's awesome as the Captain.

    But, that aside, it was a pretty crackin' episode cuz Mirror Georgiou was amazing. The freakin' ganglia bit! Stammets mirror being irritated with Stammets Prime. I did not lack for entertainment value. (I have this odd feeling Stammets is going to somehow get so wacky he may end up merging with the computer system or something, hell he kinda already is part Spore-drive)

    As for the bunch of stuff the Prime / Mirror verse will know about each other, I'm pretty sure the Disco is going to make it back but heavily redacted and, even if they know the fate of the Defiant, they can't do anything about it cuz it would muck the entire timeline up. If the Defiant doesn't go back, the Discovery doesn't come back, basically.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
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  4. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    OMG the writing on this show is super good. I can't wait for the next thrilling twist. Maybe Lorca is the consciousness of Prime Lorca implanted in the body of Mirror Lorca. Or maybe he was modified to physically match Terrans to infiltrate and destroy the Terran Empire from within.

    . . .

    .Actually that makes more sense than Voq's mission. lol
     
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  5. Darth Caliban

    Darth Caliban Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 2015
    I believe Prime Lorca is still alive and somewhere to be found in the Mirror Universe. Maybe he'll be found and take the captaincy of Discovery.
     
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  6. redxavier

    redxavier Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2003
    So while I've been grousing a bit on the latest few episodes of the show and what they mean for the wider season, I have to say that the latest episode was really great. Lots of things to like about it and where they left it sets up so many possibilities for later stories. Is that it for Season 1 then, 13 episodes?
     
  7. Mustafar_66

    Mustafar_66 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 20, 2005
    Surprised to see the Mirror Universe stuff wrapped up already tbh. Felt they could've continued it to the end of the season and had this as the season finale. Still, that we're getting a couple more episodes in the prime universe dealing with the Klingons and with bonus Emperor Georgiou in tow I'm fine with it.

    I'm really enjoying the relationship between Stamets and Tilly as well. It's developed really nicely.
     
  8. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    I don't understand the fascination with the Mirror Universe. Yes, it was a decent enough plot for one TOS episode, but it might as well be a Planet of _____. A universe of evil people. DS9's take on it sucked, Enterprise did it mostly for fanservice.

    I hope Discovery shows signs of being something more than The Expanse Lite (with Star Trek IP!) before the end of the season.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
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  9. redxavier

    redxavier Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2003
    The mirror/alternate universe concept has been a trope of fantasy and sci-fi shows for decades. Stargate, Buffy, Flash, Farscape, etc. they've all had one. It's basically a chance for the main cast to play completely different and contrasting characters and I think we generally enjoy and like it for that reason (of course it only works after we have grown to know the characters and usually contrived as hell - like how virtually all of the Discovery crew have versions in this Mirror who happen to be involved in the events!).
     
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  10. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    May 27, 1999
    Haven't seen the actual show yet, as I spent my extra cash on Netflix for the MST3K Relaunch. However, I have read the episode recaps. Based on them, I think they should just drop the idea that this series is a prequel to TOS and just go with it being an alternate continuity, like the Abrams movies.
     
  11. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Well, uhm, I guess Lorca isn't coming back (freakin' atomized!) and Issacs is saying he's out cuz he liked the Mirror-Lorca take. And Prime Lorca seems like he transporter-accident into the Mirror-verse and probably got blown up. But they have opened the alternate reality window so maybe in Season 2 we can get .... some version of Lorca? Hopefully? Please?

    Anyway, the phaser fight without music was really dang sweet cuz 95% of Star Trek action scenes have music so that was nicely different. And Lorca's brief speech to his Prime-verse Discovery crew was kind of fun cuz he didn't immediately hate on all of them, actually gave them a bit of a compliment. Also I loved Burnham's line to Lorca which you could tell actually kind of hurt him when she said simply that they would have helped him get back. And they would have, they're the Federation!

    Did not see the Emperor Georgiou save coming so it could be interesting how they use her. I mean, she's legit evil but they can't try her for war crimes in the Prime-verse, she hasn't done anything there! But probably use her to win the war against the Klingons / establish the Neutral zone, I'm guessing.
     
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  12. darthOB1

    darthOB1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2000
    They need to stick with star trekking not universe trekking
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  13. soitscometothis

    soitscometothis Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 11, 2003
    I'm sad Isaac's is gone, though the way he went makes me think they have left the door open for him returning.
     
  14. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I think Mirror Lorca is toast cuz he got shot into space and atomized but I doubt the entire series will go by and we won't see *some* version of Lorca again. I don't know if Michelle Yeoh Mirror Georgiou will stick around either considering she's an evil Emperor from beyond the universe. Which would mean the cast would be Captain Saru (definitely happening and be Season 2) and Burnham (probably gets reinstated in Starfleet in the finale) and Co. But I like either Lorca or Georgiou as the Captain on the ship because they have the gravitas of a leader. Saru is awesome, and I like Stammets and Tilly (and whenever I get to see Lt. Keyla Detmer I'm happy, give her more to do, I think she's a potential Miles O'Brien in the making) but they all come off as a little green so I'd love so see either of those characters/actors back in a main role in S2 somehow.

    Speaking of shot into space and atomized, also last week's episode the death of Mirror Stammets was awesome too. "I hate poetry" (bzapp!!)

    finally watched a full episode of After Trek (from 2 weeks ago), Johnathan Frakes was the guest on it and I highly recommend watching it for that cuz he's gold (Him pointing out that Saru is a good captain because he's a good first officer was hilarious). Anthony Rapp had some funny stuff too and Matt Mira the host kept bringing up Shatner's Trek novels as a running gag. Also Rapp pointed out that, legitimately, a theme in Discovery Season 1 is definitely one of parallels and facing one-self so I'd say the Mirror-verse jaunt fits in better thematically then one could give it credit for.
     
  15. darthOB1

    darthOB1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2000
    I wonder if Michael with be reinstated as a first officer, considering......
     
  16. Darth Caliban

    Darth Caliban Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 2015
    I have a hunch that the real Georgiou might come back and takes over the body of her Mirror version with the help of Stamets and the Mycelium Network. We have seen Culber existing in this place after his death. Might be a hint for something like this.
     
  17. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    I think they need to cut off the coke supply to the writers.
     
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  18. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    kinda chatty penultimate episode but that's one of the general failings of serialized TV, sometimes the episode before a finale can either be A) everything goes crazy B) chatty setup. We got the last one here. But it seemed sensible to pull back on the throttle after the generally 4 episodes of Mirror-Universe crazy. Pretty deep dive on Burnham and Tyler (guess we can't call him Voq now). Also had a decent shout-out to Archer and the NX-01 being the first Federation crew on Qu'Onos (Kronos, whatever) and the plan does sound interesting. And, yah, those last 2 minutes where Mirror Georgiou walked out on the bridge was pretty great. Seems the whole Mirror-jaunt is going to be deep classified with Saru threatening treason charges to the random guy who beamed them over. Just depends how much Mirror Georgiou wants to keep her read ID under wraps.
     
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  19. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

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    Aug 16, 2002
    Putting a genocidal mania in charge because her genocidal tactics might be kewl? Great idea.
     
  20. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I don't think the season is going to end with "Georgiou" still being a Captain anywhere, though. Probably a 2nd death or stuck in the Federation pokey like how Burnham ended up in the pilot. Or Mirror Georgiou at large to be Season 2 baddie. But this "relationship" is probably going sideways quick-like.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  21. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Of course it's going to go south. But Burnham knows what kind of person Mirror Georgiou is. They still stuck her in a captain's uniform and pretended that she's the saner non-Mirror version. That's stupid, like putting a recently rescued Klingon prisoner in charge of a whole department or giving a guy who admits to blowing up his previous ship command of the Discovery.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  22. darthcaedus1138

    darthcaedus1138 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Yeah except that they have deniability. They have her surrounded by a huge Star Fleet crew that can and will (because Burnham already has) mutiny against her if she goes too far, and once they possibly win the war against the Klingons they can tell the crew Mirror Georgiou fooled them all into thinking it was her alive and well and they get to take the credit for her success and either send her back to her universe or jail her. And, they're up against the wall here. It's sucky to take this deal with Mirror Georgiou, but it's either that or just fall to the Klingons. They have a lot of backup if this thing goes wrong.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  23. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Admirals in Starfleet be shifty, there's been a whole lot of "Deal with the Devil" tactics they've done over the years. Considering the Klingons are knocking at Earth's door, "Let's try to put the genocidal psychopath on a leash" is probably looking pretty tempting to them.
     
  24. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    They don't need her to be in command, and the justification they give for keeping the Mirror Universe a secret is lacking and only there because suddenly they care about minor continuity.
     
  25. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I was mite disappointed that Captain Killy and the brave ship ISS Discovery was unceremoniously exploded off screen with the Klingons, thought they could go nuts on that but having Mirror-verse Captains on the bridge in the guise of their Prime-verse counterparts is already stretching continuity as is.
     
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