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Lit Star Wars #38-43: The Ashes of Jedha (6/6 Released)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by The2ndQuest , Sep 4, 2017.

  1. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Jan wouldn't be able to issue art at the pace Marvel are wanting it. Larroca can just about do it, but in doing so he's lost a lot of his individual style.

    He's been working in comics for over 20 years, but while tech has allowed him to do m ore, it's been at a cost.

    This is from Ultimate Daredevil & Elektra, in the early Noughties, written by Rucka:

    [​IMG]
     
  2. tatooinesandworm

    tatooinesandworm Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2015
    That looks soooo much better than what we are getting.


    Sent from my Ornithopter using The Force
     
  3. jamminjedi23

    jamminjedi23 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 19, 2015
    I didn't go back and read the Annual in which Trios is introduced in but Shu-Torun is described as a resource rich planet. So I assume mining would have been a part of that and since Trios was the daughter of the King of Shu-Torun she would have known a thing or two about mining.
     
  4. spicer

    spicer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2012
    I'd take this over the tracing frenzy anyday.
     
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  5. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Problem is two-fold:

    Marvel is convinced that consumers want two issues - or even three - a month, where it used to be one.

    Nor does it seem they care much about artists, as this quote from IVC2 con at the end of March is going to be haunting them for a good while:

    Well, Axel, let's see: You do bi-monthly shipping, a rate most artists can't match, so you bring in other artists, but then you chop and change them around so much, the consumer never links an artist to a particular book, so has no effect on it, because they are on it for a handful issues, which you then conclude from that they have no impact and, to add insult to injury, you throw them under the bus in public.

    More here: http://11oclockcomics.com/2017/04/02/axel-alonsos-misguided-marginalization-of-artists/
     
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  6. spicer

    spicer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2012
    A pity [face_sigh]What this results in is a one time only product more or less, as with the sub-par artwork the re-readability is significantly diminished, regardless of the quality of the story. If the publishing frequency is given second priority over the quality of the comic, we'll get something that would be a joy to re-read over and over again (case in point Legacy, Republic, Dark Times - excellent stories and art that last, and when they were initially published couldn't matter less anymore). This way, some of the comics don't hold up too well, with notable exceptions like Kanan, everything by Checchetto etc. For example, I'm having a tough time re-reading the original Vader run by Marvel because of the art, despite the fact that I like the story. And if I cared only for the story and not so much for the art, I'd stick to the novels.
     
  7. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Yeah, I think it's honestly to the point here where I'd rather read Gillen's script than the finished comic.
     
  8. TiniTinyTony

    TiniTinyTony Super Bowl Pick 'Em Winner star 6 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2003
    I like the pictures; it's probably while I'm not a big novel reader. I'd rather see a Tognathian than read that one happens to be in a certain scene.
     
  9. starfish

    starfish Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    Yeah, I wish marvel would allow the artists more time to complete the art. The books have Star Wars on them, they will sell almost no matter what.

    Imagine if you buy a comic and the last few pages have blank word bubbles because the writer was rushed? Or the last page was black and white because the colorist was rushed? To me that’s how rushed art looks, it looks unintentional, not finished.

    And don’t get me wrong, some amazing black and white comics or even some silent comics are out there.

    I like a lot of the mini series marvel has done and the other ongoing books, but this main book is really the weak link.
     
  10. spicer

    spicer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Exactly. And I feel that the title "Star Wars" combined with the familiar covers of the big three, Vader, X-Wings and such are the sole reason why it sells so well. You can literally just print the cover and put an empty comic book on the shelves, and it would still sell. For that reason it is really important that Marvel ups their game, as they can only gain at this point.
     
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  11. jamminjedi23

    jamminjedi23 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 19, 2015

    There is a famous saying out there that reads 'If something is working than don't mess with it.'

    Star Wars has proven to be an extremely popular brand for Marvel despite having a quick release schedule and at times subpar art. Gillen and Larroca have proven to be a popular team that started their series as a top 10 seller and ended their series as a top 10 seller despite all the same complaints from some fans that we are seeing within this thread.

    The reviews for the original Darth Vader series that Gillen and Larroca did were overwhelmingly positive. Even though Marvel has shown that they do take the opinions of the people within this forum into consideration at the same time though the fans of their series that are on this forum amount to a very tiny fraction of the total number of people that are getting the book. If the total reviews for a product say that something is really good you wouldn't want to change things all that much just because there are a few people out there that say the product needs some work.
     
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  12. Senpezeco

    Senpezeco Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    I'm having this exact problem too! And I'm pretty bummed out by that.

    Well, we know Marvel reads these boards, so I'll add my disappointment to the pile for them to see. I would not have guessed the panels Ben posted above were by Larroca. I'd have no complaints at all if his work on this series looked like that. I feel bad for him now; too much strain. Marvel, please consider giving him some breathing room!
     
  13. spicer

    spicer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Star Wars is a popular brand to whoever owns it. It was popular to Marvel in the 70's and 80s, it was popular to Dark Horse, it is now popular to Marvel again. It is likely that it will be popular to IDW too, and if any other comic publisher ever acquires the rights to Star Wars, it will be popular to them as well. As I've said in my previous post, the title alone is enough to sell.

    Story wise, I agree that the original Vader series deserves all the praise it gets. But the fact remains that Larroca's tracing is one of the most criticised comic artwork online, and not just here. Just google "Larroca comic art" or something similar and you'll see that there are other places that point its flaws.

    Also, there is another important factor to consider for the huge success of the original Vader series as well as most other SW Marvel titles from 2015 onward: the hype surrounding Star Wars after Disney acquired LFL. Star Wars has never been as popular as it is now since at least 1999, if ever. That combined with the marketing of the easy to get new canon + the giant publisher Marvel (arguably the biggest comic publisher in history) + the title and covers and stories about super popular characters like Darth Vader is what significantly helped to boost sales. Dark Horse published several Darth Vader comics with just as good stories and miles better artwork, and yet they didn't sell as well as the Marvel stuff. Why? Most likely because of the things I mentioned above. Also, the Kanan series didn't sell as well as Vader or the main series, despite the fact that it had a fantastic story and gorgeous artwork. Why? Because Kanan isn't as popular as Vader.

    So, sometimes things perform better than others by default, because they are generally more appealing. A Marvel Darth Vader series would almost always sell better than a Dark Horse one, and a Darth Vader series will always sell better than a Kanan one.

    Agreed. I feel guilty for criticising Larroca's SW work on a pretty much regular basis, and yet I am convinced that he can be a great artist when he's not pressured with tight schedules. Come on Marvel, let the man do his best, I know he can provide top notch art!
     
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  14. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    "But the fact remains that Larroca's tracing is one of the most criticised comic artwork online, and not just here. Just google "Larroca comic art" or something similar and you'll see that there are other places that point its flaws."

    spicer yep, people are talking about it on Twitter too https://twitter.com/shadowblindr/status/922232438679465984
     
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  15. TiniTinyTony

    TiniTinyTony Super Bowl Pick 'Em Winner star 6 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2003
    My favorite tracer:

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Senpezeco

    Senpezeco Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    I'm also seeing more and more frustrated posters on other sites I frequent. The choice of source image for this trace from issue #31 killed me. Down to the individual noodles! [face_laugh]

    [​IMG]

    I guess I shouldn't wander too far off-topic... I wonder how...
    ...Benthic survived when Edrio didn't, considering they were both present at Saw's hideout for the destruction of Jedha City. After watching Rogue One, I was hoping one or both of them managed to take off in one of the Cavern Angels' X-wings, but who knows!
     
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  17. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    The entire arc she appeared in established that the culture of her planet is based on mining, a fact that is reiterated in this issue, and she is royalty among that culture. How wouldn't she know at least as much about the subject as, say, Vidian did when he was consulted regarding mining thorilide on Cynda in A New Dawn? And maybe she did bring a team of experts with her from Shu-Torun, who knows. In any event her connection with Vader might be a hint that maybe she's not there merely as a mining consultant.

    Sorry to interrupt the Larocca bash-a-thon everyone, you may now return to your previously scheduled complaining.
     
  18. revan772

    revan772 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2014
    I liked Edrio better anyway, he has an action figure and got an appearance in Rebels, I do not get why they chose Benthic when Edrio could have lived. They have already invested so much more in him... it is frustrating but I am glad we got at least a few survivors.
     
  19. spicer

    spicer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Instead of the word complaining, I'd say constructive criticism with the hope of improving the quality for some of the comics. Focusing on the positive (no pun intended) aspects of the comics is great, but it doesn't help to turn a blind eye on the negative aspects.
     
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  20. jamminjedi23

    jamminjedi23 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 19, 2015
    While that can be true. At the same time though if you get a few people just unloading on something such as the art it really kills the ability for people to actually talk about Gillen's writing and the story we have gotten thus far. If you remain dissatisfied with the art in future issues it would probably be best not to complain like this about it after every single issue. If you must keep on talking about it it might be good to create a separate thread for the complaints about the artwork within Marvel's series.
     
  21. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    Fair enough. I do admit the criticism isn't unwarranted, though it is starting to border slightly on gratuitous (let's not start documenting every single instance of "tracing" with photo reference just to further prove the point, please!). I do focus on the positive and refuse to dwell on the negative, because that's what brings me the most enjoyment from my hobby. I get to enjoy an amazing amount of high quality Star Wars storytelling on a regular basis, and if that storytelling sometimes comes equipped with less-than-stellar art, well, the odds are I'm still going to enjoy it. It's not turning a blind eye so much as it is just the attitude with which I approach my consumption of Star Wars, although YMMV.
     
  22. Darth_Voider

    Darth_Voider Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 4, 2015
    Say whatever you want about the art, but her eating behaviour is another reason to love Aphra. [face_love]

    Gesendet von meinem SM-J510FN mit Tapatalk
     
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  23. jamminjedi23

    jamminjedi23 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 19, 2015
    Part of the reason why Luke likes her. Ooop. Did I just say that?????
     
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  24. Darth Pipes

    Darth Pipes Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 12, 1999
    Luke might be naïve during this stage in his life but having him loudly declare in a cantina on a lawless moon that he wanted to go to the Jedi Temple of Coruscant falls under the category of too stupid to live. There's naïve and then there's stupid and that was the latter. I've also found his lack of anything resembling loyalty to the Rebellion to be off-putting, getting whiny after the initial storyline and leaving the Rebellion at the drop of a hat whenever something Jedi comes along.

    Marjorie Liu's characterization of Han in her outstanding mini-series puts Jason Aaron's characterization to complete shame.
     
  25. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016

    Just a warning to everyone, don't Google reverse image search this picture unless you want to have "star wars dr aphra porn" showing up in your search history.

    Anyway, what's the picture on the right from?