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Lit Star Wars #44-49: Mutiny at Mon Cala (4/6 Released)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Ancient Whills, Mar 1, 2018.

  1. Darth_Accipiter

    Darth_Accipiter Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2015
    "Hope" sounds like a cheesy name for a rebel crusier. If the art and Vader's involvement is anything to go by, we might be getting Death Squadron's first foray with the Rebellion. The synopsis for 51 has me a bit worried because it sounds too much like the plot to ESB for my liking.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  2. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I love a good heist story and quite enjoyed the hoops they had to jump through for this one.
     
  3. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2017
    The fact that the artwork HAD to be given its own thread is an indication of how much of a problem it is. It's as if, say, the VFX in any random SW film or show had been SO blatantly poor in terms of serving the story that they were disqualified from discussion of the work as a whole. Even the knife-beards of early TCW character design and the creepy CGI death masks of R1 were allowed to be discussed in the context of the overall experience and to what extent they did or didn't detract from it.

    At the risk of mini-modding (happy to be warned and then I'll drop it)... I would LOVE to be able to comment on the scripts for this series -- and I will, they are at this point EXCELLENT -- but the thread is about the book as a whole. It's honestly really difficult to abstractly know that Gillen has written some great dialogue for Han, but have the visual image blatantly tell me "That isn't what Han is saying when he looks like that, he's saying 'Laugh it up, Fuzzball'".

    Nick mentioned a hope for a change of artist around #50 -- that would be an interesting parallel with the original Marvel Star Wars. The run up until #50 was largely very well written by Archie Goodwin but drawn by Carmine Infantino who for all his virtues seemed almost willfully opposed to representing SW tech and characters accurately, and it bothered fans and LFL alike. SW #50 was of course an Al Williamson extravaganza with fill in work from the equally great and SW-conversant Walt Simonson who would take over pencilling shortly thereafter, ushering in a true golden age. The irony is that my beef against Infantino was that no matter how dynamic the compositions, the characters didn't look like the actors; my beef against the current art is that they look *exactly* like the actors while the compositions are static and stilted to accommodate the tracing.
     
  4. revan772

    revan772 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2014
    To be completely honest... they can say it is the most epic Star Wars comic to date but it looks incredibly boring... I hope it gets more interesting and I want to stay positive but I just do not know about this series anymore.
     
  5. jamminjedi23

    jamminjedi23 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 19, 2015
    There are about twenty to thirty people that post regularly in the lit section of these forums. There are about sixty thousand people that are regularly getting these books (probably closer to a 100,000 if you include all the people that wait until the TPB's come out). This forum is in no way an indication of how things are viewed as a whole. It would be like using a small little town as a reference for how things are viewed within a large city.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  6. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    Did Infantino's art really bother fans and LFL all that much, though? Today, of course, we chuckle at his buff, ever-grimacing heroes, free from any distracting resemblance to Mark, Harrison, and Carrie. I've made the joke before about how he created a new class of Star Destroyer every time he attempted to draw one. But the late 70s were a time when comic book artwork in general was very different than it is today. You'll find few examples of photo-realism in Marvel books of the period - the artistic standards were simply different and of-their-time. The audience was different as well - back then comic books were marketed primarily to kids. Infantino himself wasn't "just another artist," he was already a comic book legend - no matter what we think today, back then he was considered Marvel's "A" game. Marvel and LFL were sufficiently pleased with his work that he enjoyed a three-year-run on Star Wars, and fans apparently didn't mind either - by all accounts I've seen, the book was a consistent best-seller for Marvel in the late 70s.

    All of this isn't to disagree with your concerns with the present Marvel series, but simply to say I don't think there's a valid parallel to the Goodwin/Infantino years, which were at the time a period of great success for Marvel's Star Wars line from pretty much any angle one might choose to approach it.
     
  7. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    The art in this series is bad. But. I guess I’m used to it at this point with the comics involving the OT3 on their adventures. I have 44 and 46 of this series and I think I have to just be done. It’s Luke’s characterization that’s driving me absolutely nuts. He serves no purpose here. It’s a Leia and Han story, which is fine, but then they just shouldn’t put Luke in it. He barely says anything, and when he does he pretty much never says anything super relevant that couldn’t have been said by any character, and a decent portion of the time when he speaks he’s being a real downer. It distracts me more than the art because I’m specifically looking for Luke to contribute something interesting as opposed to just enjoying the story, which I really could because I like the under cover ball thing. I was actually kind of excited when he said “everyone would be so impressed. You’d be famous.” I could hear ANH Luke’s voice deliver that line and it felt confident and like he was part of it all. And then he disappeared the rest of the issue, ugh. I like seeing Leia shine in her leadership role, but Han never feels sidelined. I don’t see why LF has so much trouble writing for Luke. Maybe I’m just having bad luck with the issues I catch. This trend of not digging their portrayal of Luke started with Ashes of Jedha and it definitely continues here.
     
  8. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Luke has been a little mopier lately in the comic but, as we've seen in Last Jedi, the man can do an epic mope.
     
    Sinrebirth likes this.
  9. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2017
    As a regular and avid reader at the time, yeah, it did bother me. SW comics were my entry into comics in general so I didn't really know Infantino's work from before that. I was going to read the book because, hey, it was Star Wars, some of the only SW available at the time, and I very much liked Goodwin's storylines, but it certainly did annoy me that something as simple to replicate as R2-D2 or the Falcon, to say nothing of the actors, just didn't look anything like their filmic counterparts, when over in the newspaper strip, Russ Manning, who was no more photorealistic in general than Infantino, had no problems keeping the basic shapes of the ships and droids accurate.

    I'm fairly certain that I've read more than once that Al Williamson was either requested by or at least roundly applauded by LFL for the ESB adaptation, and that LFL was described as "not liking the art". In retrospect when I've seen Infantino's work on other stuff, I've kind of dug it, maybe even perhaps ironically out of nostalgia for the aspects of his SW run that I did like. But most certainly at the time, my friends who read the title were *massively* relieved (thrilled even) when Williamson took over, and a bit disappointed when Infantino briefly returned immediately after ESB.
     
  10. rjrjr

    rjrjr Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2009
    I was around 9 when I started buying Star Wars regularly as a kid. I never thought of Infantino’s art as bad and even today I have no problem with it. I do not recall any of my comic reading friends complaining about it either. While I liked Simonson and Frenz better, Infantino’s Star Wars has a certain charm to it and the art does not distract me from enjoying the stories but enhance my enjoyment.

    I doubt I will look back at Larocca’s art years from now and appreciate it. The only time I remember Star Wars art being this bad was at the end of the original Marvel series. Back then the stories were not good and matched the art. Now we have good stories and distractingly bad art.
     
  11. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2017
    I guess we can't reconstruct yesteryear since we didn't have the internet 1977-1981, but... when the ESB adaptation with Williamson's art came out, my friends and I were thrilled that stuff looked like it was supposed to for the first time in years. "It was a different era" isn't really an excuse -- just look at any given Infantino drawing of the Falcon and ask yourself if that would be acceptable now. We kids back then weren't any dumber than kids now; we ALL knew what the Falcon looked like (we all also knew that the proportions on the Kenner toys were off, too); we all knew Russ Manning (and one shot artists like Michael Golden) were getting the SW look right and Infantino just wasn't.

    However, you're right in that it didn't kill the enjoyment on the level of Larocca's current wax museum creepfest -- Infantino got to invent some cool characters of Goodwin's creation (the extended Tagge family in particular) and the art was dynamic in the storytelling sense. Those stories are close to my heart. But Goodwin found his real foil with Williamson and got to do a "Take 2" of the ANH-ESB era in the newspaper strips which was superior to his first one, benefitting from hindsight. (Certainly an integration of both of Goodwin's takes on the era, illustrated by Williamson, would trump anything in the current Marvel version, as much as I do enjoy Gillen's writing and the inclusion of characters that didn't yet exist back in the old days.)
     
  12. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    I don't particularly care either way about Infantino's art when I read those stories now, but whether or not that's just a matter of distance feels like a moot point - I honestly am not exaggerating when I call Larroca's faces disturbing. I can't imagine any amount of off-model Falcons could compare.
     
    Daneira likes this.
  13. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2017
    I fully agree -- there was just an interesting parallel there around #50. But in point of fact, if, in 1978, young me had been shown what my wish for the comics to "look more like the movies" would lead to, forty years hence... I'm sure I would have gladly signed up for another 50 issues of trippy-looking freighters and Chewie looking like Sasquatch out of Alpha Flight.
     
    Daneira likes this.
  14. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Star Wars #47 preview.
    [​IMG]
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    Daneira likes this.
  15. ConservativeJedi321

    ConservativeJedi321 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2016
    [face_rofl]

    Never change Threepio.
     
    chrcharcor2 likes this.
  16. Senpezeco

    Senpezeco Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    An alcoholic drink "with a twist of berrydust". C'mon, recanonize zoochberry juice! Or jewel-fruit, since they're on Mon Cala.

    Not to pile on the pressure, Threepio, but I too would like to learn more about this Faluvian Cycle and the Tale of the Tragic Eggs. Not at the expense of the pacing of the issue, but it makes me think of how we never learned anything about the Aquatic Ballet and Squid Lake in ROTS past the name. I've always wished a RPG sourcebook/supplement would expand on it with some flavor text, or use it as a springboard to further explore Mon Cal high culture and art. It was a cool visual and I wish it existed as something more than an easy Swan Lake reference.
     
  17. revan772

    revan772 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2014
    That opera looks like it is not a story the Jedi would tell me. Or the droids would tell me.
     
  18. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Was there ever any production or concept art that surface of the ROTS opera? It was so very distant but I have to imagine that it was thought through visually on some deeper level than what ended up onscreen.
     
  19. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    If nothing else, this preview is confirmation that Larocca is entirely capable of great artwork. Those full-page pieces of the Moncaladrome audience and the opera itself are gorgeous. Even the scanned-face thing seems dialed back a bit. I'm looking forward to seeing how the finished product turns out.
     
    Daneira, Senpezeco and Jedi Ben like this.
  20. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    That was my main observation too and it looks far better for it.

    It's strange that a great deal of the art problems are likely to do with tech progression, not a lack of it. Over the last 20 years colouring has improved drastically, allowing imagery that just wasn't possible before, but while the tools have improved, it still takes time to learn how best to wield them.

    I also noticed in Star Wars OHC2, on Annual 1, how much more natural Unzueta's art was compared to some recent Poe preview images, where movie images can be seen being ported in. I'm wondering if it hasn't been a requirement that the artists, Larocca and Unzueta, are working to as opposed to a choice they opted for?
     
  21. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2017
    If so, and knowing that Marvel folks do have a peek in here... I hope word gets back that it's not popular. But I know what you mean; that starship collection image from the Poe book keeps getting shared because it features an E-Wing, and the cut-and-paste of the ships there is awkward and distracting every time I see it.

    Whom it would please, I don't know. This here section of SW fandom doesn't like it much, and I can't imagine that it plays as ideal storytelling to general comics fandom. Marvel SW is close to greatness on the script and narrative level, and the Vader and Aphra books look pretty great... there's a way to seal the deal here...
     
  22. TiniTinyTony

    TiniTinyTony Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2003
    Well while we were treated to no scan faces in the first 6 pages, when the story flips to the big three, I think we're going to be disappointed.

    Couldn't they get a really good artist to trace a bunch of movie scans once in the beginning and then scan the traces instead of the images? Wouldn't that have worked better?
     
  23. revan772

    revan772 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2014
    I have not been caught up with my comics for past few weeks, going to get them tomorrow. So unless something contradicting this has been said, what if they end up finding the Kings corpse, kinda like Luminara from Rebels, and it turns out the whole thing was a trap? Then we later see the King was killed in the Vader comic? I think this could be an interesting twist, but I also like Lee Char so if he lives I will be happy. :)
     
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  24. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    Issue #47 was just so-so. The art was more of the same, but overall I found it dull. Having said that, it's nice to see C-3PO getting some attention. The whole "opera" plotline seems a bit drawn out, but it is both unique and original. I guess I just find myself wishing that we saw more action on Mon Cala, but that appears to be saved for the next two issues.

    So... the reveal that poor Lee-char is emaciated and basically being kept alive via life support is both surprising and sad. I'm not sure if the king will survive or if his death helps push the Mon Calamari and Quarren to open rebellion, but I guess we'll find out soon.

    --Adm. Nick
     
  25. Darth_Accipiter

    Darth_Accipiter Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2015
    is that a Rakatan I see? Were they ever canonized before this?

    [​IMG]

    I laughed at the Chewy = wet dog gag. That was pretty funny. Same with the stormtroopers playing cards.
    Leia got to deliver a pretty badass line this chapter.
    Poor Lee Char :(
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2018