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Star Wars and Christianity

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Obi-wan-Damion, Oct 20, 2002.

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  1. Obi-wan-Damion

    Obi-wan-Damion Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2002
    In the Empire Strikes Back when Han finds out that Luke is still 'out' and hasn't come back he decides that he wants go find Luke the deck officer says that his Tuantuan will freeze before the first marker. Then Han Solo says (and this is the important bit) "then i'll see you in HELL"

    Now unless Christianity is known in the SW universe then they wouldn't know about hell
     
  2. Fanboy_Solo

    Fanboy_Solo Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2001
    That doesn't mean that necessarily. It's just another word, like "the" and "human" and "cold", just the word used for where bad guys go after they die
     
  3. eclipseSD

    eclipseSD Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 11, 2002
    There was a very good thread about this called[link=http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=8093959] "Then I'll See You in Hell" [/link]
     
  4. Jango777

    Jango777 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2002
    In a way I see you point. The first mentioning of Hell came form the bible, but I highly dought that Lucas purposely put that in there. I realize that a lot of people like to fantasize about star wars (make believe their a character and apply star wars to their own life), I even to it myself sometimes, but you need to keep in mind, it?s still just a movie.
     
  5. Bubba_the_Genius

    Bubba_the_Genius Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2002
    I myself am a Christian, and I don't think the line has a specifically Christian connotation. Christianity has concepts of heaven and hell, but it's not the only religion that does so.

    What I find intriguing is the line in Attack of the Clones:

    "I know wherever you are, it's become a better place."
     
  6. Delance

    Delance Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 2002
    He could just as well have said "I will see you in Hades" or something to that effect.

    Besides, the phrase "I will see you in hell" is idiomatic and not religious.

    Like saying "Kiss my ***" in some other language, people will think you *mean* it.
     
  7. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    In the AOTC-script that I read, Anakin says:
    "Personally, I´d much rather find out who in the hell he is and who he´s working for."
     
  8. Delance

    Delance Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 2002
    Interesting. But he could've said "Who the hades he is working for".

    I don't think they are dicussing theology. Maybe in the Jedi-Lingo he was saying a very nasty word, that was "translated" to english that way.
     
  9. Myaha

    Myaha Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2002
    there are also several hells in Buddhism...

    it's not an invention of the Bible ;)

     
  10. WormieSaber

    WormieSaber Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 22, 2000
    SW is a mesh-mash of ideas, mythology and culture. I guess in a made-up world like SW, anything can appear without reason. Because it's a fantasy world. And if Han had called hell Hoden, or something like that, then the audience would been like, "huh???"
     
  11. Darkwish

    Darkwish Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Apr 26, 2001
    Exactly. I mean, they are not really speaking ENGLISH in the Star Wars universe. So whatever BASIC word equals the generic term for "hell" is what Han Solo said.


     
  12. DeJade_Vu

    DeJade_Vu Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jul 29, 2002

    I doubt that Lucas would have put something so OBVIOUSLY a part of world religion into SW hoping that everyone would think it a generic term. That wouldn't make sense.

    Besides, there has to be an afterlife in SW because of Ben and Yoda's ghosts. And Anakin says, "Are you an angel?"

    Plus, Lucas has said that he believes without a doubt that there is a God. Good for him, I say. :D
     
  13. Darkwish

    Darkwish Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2001
    Yes, but the idea of a "Hell" is a very generic concept. It does not exist in just the Christian religion. The notions of Heaven, Hell, Angels, Demons etc. exist in many other religions and theological ideas.

    So I'm sure in the Star Wars universe, there is a phrase that people say that equals "I'll see you in Hell" in our world.
    Even if you don't particularly believe in that religion.
    It's like someone saying "damn it" or "Christ!" or "Jesus" as a term of exasperation. Even if they don't believe in the religious affiliations that those terms imply.




     
  14. Delance

    Delance Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 2002
    Lucas might believe in God or not, but he didn't address this issue on the movies. There's "Goodness" from C3PO and the Jedi Religion. And the occasional Hell and Angel. But that's it.
     
  15. EruIluvatar

    EruIluvatar Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Sorry, you go away for a little while.
     
  16. Dark Lady Mara

    Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 1999
    Good rational philosophical argument there. [face_plain]

    Anyway, although the concept of hell is included in the canons of many religions, I'm pretty sure Christianity was the first to use that particular name for it. So yes, Lucas was drawing on a Christian reference, but it's a reference that has wormed its way into western culture as a whole and is used by Christians and non-Christians alike. I don't have a problem with it.
     
  17. CieSharp

    CieSharp Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 18, 2002
    Star Wars is far more Hindu than Christian.

    [link=http://www.thejediplanet.com/features/hindu2.shtml]Just check this out.[/link]
     
  18. Delance

    Delance Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 2002
    Jedis are part-Budist Monks, part-Samurais, actually.
     
  19. Minigo Varay

    Minigo Varay Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 24, 2000
    When GL wrote that line I don't think that he thought about religion. He just wanted Han to say something to express how Han felt.

    Then maybe afterwards GL noticed "Ooops. I let a word that is a typical earthly expression with earthly mytholigy and religion get into the SW universe. How could I not have seen that? Well, I hope noone notcie it, and if they do I can surely come up with some wierd explanation that they will buy".
     
  20. Ree Yees

    Ree Yees Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2000
    "The first mentioning of Hell came form the bible"

    No, it didn't. Not close.
    As examples I can mention "hel" from Norse mythology (basically the same thing), and a Church Meeting in Nikea (around 200 BC I think it was), where the Church Fathers decided to force people to go to church more often. They reinvented "hell" to get more power, basically.
    In the seventies, several scientists/historians discovered that the 'hell' often used in the Bible was a garbage dump outside Jerusalem, where the poor and diseased roamed.
     
  21. Delance

    Delance Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 2002
    For crying out loud...

    Theologists TODAY don't even agree on what HELL might be, or if it even existis.

    And the phrase "I'LL SEE YOU IN HELL" is the same of "KILL MY ***". People don't actually mean it, don't interpret it ipsis literis
     
  22. Darth Dark Helmet

    Darth Dark Helmet Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 1999
    All right, let's keep this orderly and sane in here. This can be a pretty good discussion, if you stay away from flames and eprsonal attacks. :)
     
  23. lightknight

    lightknight Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2001
    Ree Yes is right.That's a point that not all Christian people know.
    I'm also a believer (Christian in my case).

    OK,let's go further the expressions like 'I'll see you in the Hell',or 'Are you an angel?' that makes you think about the Bible.What about the meaning of the Force, the jedi's searching for 'balance', or their rules as doing good to others without asking who they are, to be mercy and compassionate, not to feel anger or hate to anybody, and not using violence if it is not required to stay alive?

    Does this not remind you the Bible at some point?

    SW is all fantasy, we know, but the deep stepfoot of the Bible's influence must not be denied.
     
  24. DeJade_Vu

    DeJade_Vu Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2002

    Lucas might believe in God or not, but he
    didn't address this issue on the movies.


    Really. Actually, the whole concept of the Force pertains to God. On TV not to long ago I saw an interview with George Lucas where he specifically stated that he put the "force" in there to give the movies some spirituality. He said that he wanted people to think, "hey, perhaps there is a God." I hope they got the message.

    The fact that the belief in heaven and hell extends all the way back to prehistoric times should prove to people that they exist. However, this really isn't what we're trying to debate in here...

    There is supposed to be afterlife in SW. Lookit what Han said in ANH: "there's no all-powerful force controlling MY destiny", or something like that. Notice Ben's grin. See, HE knew. Even if Han did not.

     
  25. razorsaces

    razorsaces Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 10, 2002
    That's a interesting point. By the way the Force is described by people who know about it (Obi-Wan; Yoda; etc.), you could take it as the Force = God. It's a part of everything, controls the afterlife, has a "will", and is activately involved, directly or indirectly, in the matters of the universe..
     
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