Star Wars and Christianity

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Obi-wan-Damion, Oct 20, 2002.

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  1. Obi-wan-Damion Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 1
    In the Empire Strikes Back when Han finds out that Luke is still 'out' and hasn't come back he decides that he wants go find Luke the deck officer says that his Tuantuan will freeze before the first marker. Then Han Solo says (and this is the important bit) "then i'll see you in HELL"

    Now unless Christianity is known in the SW universe then they wouldn't know about hell
  2. Fanboy_Solo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2001
    star 4
    That doesn't mean that necessarily. It's just another word, like "the" and "human" and "cold", just the word used for where bad guys go after they die
  3. eclipseSD Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 5
  4. Jango777 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2002
    In a way I see you point. The first mentioning of Hell came form the bible, but I highly dought that Lucas purposely put that in there. I realize that a lot of people like to fantasize about star wars (make believe their a character and apply star wars to their own life), I even to it myself sometimes, but you need to keep in mind, it?s still just a movie.
  5. Bubba_the_Genius Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2002
    star 4
    I myself am a Christian, and I don't think the line has a specifically Christian connotation. Christianity has concepts of heaven and hell, but it's not the only religion that does so.

    What I find intriguing is the line in Attack of the Clones:

    "I know wherever you are, it's become a better place."
  6. Delance Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2002
    star 3
    He could just as well have said "I will see you in Hades" or something to that effect.

    Besides, the phrase "I will see you in hell" is idiomatic and not religious.

    Like saying "Kiss my ***" in some other language, people will think you *mean* it.
  7. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    In the AOTC-script that I read, Anakin says:
    "Personally, I´d much rather find out who in the hell he is and who he´s working for."
  8. Delance Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2002
    star 3
    Interesting. But he could've said "Who the hades he is working for".

    I don't think they are dicussing theology. Maybe in the Jedi-Lingo he was saying a very nasty word, that was "translated" to english that way.
  9. Myaha Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2002
    star 4
    there are also several hells in Buddhism...

    it's not an invention of the Bible ;)

  10. WormieSaber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 22, 2000
    star 5
    SW is a mesh-mash of ideas, mythology and culture. I guess in a made-up world like SW, anything can appear without reason. Because it's a fantasy world. And if Han had called hell Hoden, or something like that, then the audience would been like, "huh???"
  11. Darkwish Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2001
    star 4
    Exactly. I mean, they are not really speaking ENGLISH in the Star Wars universe. So whatever BASIC word equals the generic term for "hell" is what Han Solo said.


  12. DeJade_Vu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2002
    star 4

    I doubt that Lucas would have put something so OBVIOUSLY a part of world religion into SW hoping that everyone would think it a generic term. That wouldn't make sense.

    Besides, there has to be an afterlife in SW because of Ben and Yoda's ghosts. And Anakin says, "Are you an angel?"

    Plus, Lucas has said that he believes without a doubt that there is a God. Good for him, I say. :D
  13. Darkwish Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2001
    star 4
    Yes, but the idea of a "Hell" is a very generic concept. It does not exist in just the Christian religion. The notions of Heaven, Hell, Angels, Demons etc. exist in many other religions and theological ideas.

    So I'm sure in the Star Wars universe, there is a phrase that people say that equals "I'll see you in Hell" in our world.
    Even if you don't particularly believe in that religion.
    It's like someone saying "damn it" or "Christ!" or "Jesus" as a term of exasperation. Even if they don't believe in the religious affiliations that those terms imply.




  14. Delance Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2002
    star 3
    Lucas might believe in God or not, but he didn't address this issue on the movies. There's "Goodness" from C3PO and the Jedi Religion. And the occasional Hell and Angel. But that's it.
  15. EruIluvatar Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Sorry, you go away for a little while.
  16. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    Good rational philosophical argument there. [face_plain]

    Anyway, although the concept of hell is included in the canons of many religions, I'm pretty sure Christianity was the first to use that particular name for it. So yes, Lucas was drawing on a Christian reference, but it's a reference that has wormed its way into western culture as a whole and is used by Christians and non-Christians alike. I don't have a problem with it.
  17. CieSharp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
  18. Delance Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2002
    star 3
    Jedis are part-Budist Monks, part-Samurais, actually.
  19. Minigo Varay Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2000
    star 3
    When GL wrote that line I don't think that he thought about religion. He just wanted Han to say something to express how Han felt.

    Then maybe afterwards GL noticed "Ooops. I let a word that is a typical earthly expression with earthly mytholigy and religion get into the SW universe. How could I not have seen that? Well, I hope noone notcie it, and if they do I can surely come up with some wierd explanation that they will buy".
  20. Ree Yees Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    "The first mentioning of Hell came form the bible"

    No, it didn't. Not close.
    As examples I can mention "hel" from Norse mythology (basically the same thing), and a Church Meeting in Nikea (around 200 BC I think it was), where the Church Fathers decided to force people to go to church more often. They reinvented "hell" to get more power, basically.
    In the seventies, several scientists/historians discovered that the 'hell' often used in the Bible was a garbage dump outside Jerusalem, where the poor and diseased roamed.
  21. Delance Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2002
    star 3
    For crying out loud...

    Theologists TODAY don't even agree on what HELL might be, or if it even existis.

    And the phrase "I'LL SEE YOU IN HELL" is the same of "KILL MY ***". People don't actually mean it, don't interpret it ipsis literis
  22. Darth Dark Helmet Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 1999
    star 6
    All right, let's keep this orderly and sane in here. This can be a pretty good discussion, if you stay away from flames and eprsonal attacks. :)
  23. lightknight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2001
    star 4
    Ree Yes is right.That's a point that not all Christian people know.
    I'm also a believer (Christian in my case).

    OK,let's go further the expressions like 'I'll see you in the Hell',or 'Are you an angel?' that makes you think about the Bible.What about the meaning of the Force, the jedi's searching for 'balance', or their rules as doing good to others without asking who they are, to be mercy and compassionate, not to feel anger or hate to anybody, and not using violence if it is not required to stay alive?

    Does this not remind you the Bible at some point?

    SW is all fantasy, we know, but the deep stepfoot of the Bible's influence must not be denied.
  24. DeJade_Vu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2002
    star 4

    Lucas might believe in God or not, but he
    didn't address this issue on the movies.


    Really. Actually, the whole concept of the Force pertains to God. On TV not to long ago I saw an interview with George Lucas where he specifically stated that he put the "force" in there to give the movies some spirituality. He said that he wanted people to think, "hey, perhaps there is a God." I hope they got the message.

    The fact that the belief in heaven and hell extends all the way back to prehistoric times should prove to people that they exist. However, this really isn't what we're trying to debate in here...

    There is supposed to be afterlife in SW. Lookit what Han said in ANH: "there's no all-powerful force controlling MY destiny", or something like that. Notice Ben's grin. See, HE knew. Even if Han did not.

  25. razorsaces Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2002
    star 1
    That's a interesting point. By the way the Force is described by people who know about it (Obi-Wan; Yoda; etc.), you could take it as the Force = God. It's a part of everything, controls the afterlife, has a "will", and is activately involved, directly or indirectly, in the matters of the universe..
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