Star Wars and Christianity

Really. Actually, the whole concept of the Force pertains to God. On TV not to long ago I saw an interview with George Lucas where he specifically stated that he put the "force" in there to give the movies some spirituality. He said that he wanted people to think, "hey, perhaps there is a God." I hope they got the message.

There's on way that the concept of GOD can be even compared with a sci-fi thing like the "force". The "force" can be manipulated. You can USE the "force". The "force" have a darkside. The "force" is an energy force field. That's it.

The fact that the belief in heaven and hell extends all the way back to prehistoric times should prove to people that they exist. However, this really isn't what we're trying to debate in here...

So everything that people "used to believe since prehistoric times" is absolute truth? The concept of monotheism was, at a particular time, something new. A person with that line of thought would have dismissed it instantly.

There is supposed to be afterlife in SW.

To a few JEDIs, only, as far as the movies go.

But I do agree that the whole "lose the identity in the force" EU thing is stupid.

Lookit what Han said in ANH: "there's no all-powerful force controlling MY destiny", or something like that. Notice Ben's grin. See, HE knew. Even if Han did not.

Well, there's this thing called FREE-WILL, are you familiar with it?

Besides, the force don't control people?s destinies on SW. It partially controls your actions, but people do as they please. If force controlled everything, the Jedi order would not almost became extinct. The whole darkside thing is just a stupid excuse, when Ankin had to, he destroyed Palpatine.

 

Now unless Christianity is known in the SW universe then they wouldn't know about hell

Christianism is known by the people who wrote that line.

What you said makes no sense. They speak english, so "US and England are known in the SW universe then they wouldn't speak in enlgish"

Like HAM SALAD of HARDWARE WARS said:
"Relax, kid. It's just a movie"

 

George Lucas has included a number of hints as to what he believes in his films; note the Mayan temples in "ANH", for example. If you don't know what I'm talking about, follow the link in my sig.

 

George Lucas has included a number of hints as to what he believes in his films; note the Mayan temples in "ANH", for example. If you don't know what I'm talking about, follow the link in my sig.

He beleives in Mayan temples?

I thought he used pre-existing them because it was a cheaper then to build his own temples.

VADER: "No...I am your father."
LUKE: "PPOR!"

Not sure I should ask, but what is PPOR?

Star Wars DVD 2005: Alderaan shoots first!

Very good one.

I still have the original trilogy tapes, deluxe edition, letterbox, and also a big box with Vader's face. Totally cool, but they are getting old. And there's no replecement.

 

EDIT TO A BETTER UNDERSTANDING:If you don't know what I'm talking about, follow the link in my sig.

That's what Ree Yees was referring to.

There's on way that the concept of GOD can be even compared with a sci-fi thing like the "force". The "force" can be manipulated. You can USE the "force". The "force" have a darkside. The "force" is an energy force field. That's it.

C'on guy, we all know that's a movie!! The only thing we are doing is to consider some paralelisms, some things that JUST LOOK LIKE things we have in real life.

I would not compare the Force with God Himself, but I would say it is comparable with His active force, which is in action all the time.It can act in us in order of what is our heart or mental disposition...

But well, I'm not going to make a talk on my believings.

Well, there's this thing called FREE-WILL, are you familiar with it?

I'm sure she knows,but, friend, there are other ways to express what you say!

Perhaps you don't believe in God, or perhaps you just have another opinion,but ,as you said, we have FREE-WILL to expose our thoughts, and everybody can discuss them, but there's no need to attack them.

Everybody deserves a little respect,and,as well as I respect you,it would be nice to see you respect the others. Your comments are good and show us another way of thinking.
Let us enjoy of them!

 

To a few JEDIs, only, as far as the movies go.

When Yoda he talks about it he says "friends long gone", not "a friend long gone" so it might be possible for people to sense/watch/talk to anyone that are dead. But I imagine this will be discussed in ep3.

 

I'm sure she knows,but, friend, there are other ways to express what you say!

I didn't want to disrespect her, I was simply defending Han Solo's point of view, which I think is a valid one, even inside the Star Wars Universe. If I sound disrespectful to anyone, I apologize.

I think the force can be used to one's proposes, so it really isn't controlling people's destinies. ROTJ is all about people changing their fates.
It can be manipulated and also lacks important characteristics like omnipotence and omniscience. The parallel, IMHO, is inappropriate.
But that's just my humble opinion.

EDIT: HIM/HER

 

I don't see any real similarities other than Luke and Leia's "strange" relationship and that of a lot of incest and naughtness in the old testatment.

 

Well, on ANH Vader have a BDSM session with Leia.

On ESB Luke kisses his sister.

On ROTJ Leia befriends some Ewoks.

Sw is just wrong, sometimes.

 

So, we've beastiality, sado-masochism, incest...hmm...what else? Nasty, Nasty, Nasty...

 

It's me, or you are going a BIT too far?

 

Yes, yes, they are. Leia only kissed Luke to T off Han, and there were NO evidence of any nookie going on during any of the films (except for after the Anakin/Padme marriage). Who wouldn't be friends with a bunch of real, live teddy bears?

 

On-Topic:

"Forced to survive on the barren surface of Hoth, we are told, Coren and Vila have learned to live with the Wampas, who are not so much evil as misunderstood. Vila is particularly fond of one young Wampa whom she has dubbed "Christmas" after her favorite holiday. Yes, apparently they have Christmas in the Star Wars universe, complete with Christmas trees. There are even trees on Hoth, at least for this special. Hoth looks less like Norway and more like Wisconsin this time around."

From: http://www.stomptokyo.com/movies/v/very-star-wars-xmas.html

Apparently this is a long forgoteen and never-aired christimas special for TESB.

Actually, it's regarded as a hoax. But it's very funny anyway.

 

Well, there's this thing called FREE-WILL, are you familiar with it?

Um, yes...if I didn't have a free will then I most likely wouldn't be posting on these boards.

Free will is supposed to be man's choice of whether or not to do good or wrong. God doesn't actually CONTROL every part of our "destinies". He points out the right path for us and we are free to take it or leave it. It's our free will. I think the force is supposed to be similar.

When I pointed out Han's line in ANH I wasn't trying to make it seem as though the force could actually CONTROL everyone's destiny. I was pointing out the fact that Han doesn't believe that there's an "all-powerful force". Ben smiled because, you see, he knew what Han didn't.

So everything that people "used to believe since prehistoric times" is absolute truth? The concept of monotheism was, at a particular time, something new. A person with that line of thought would have dismissed it instantly.

Yet the fact that people HAVE been believing this same thing since prehistoric times should make you wonder...

There is supposed to be afterlife in SW.

To a few JEDIs, only, as far as the movies go.

Okay, so afterlife exists only for a few dead Jedis, and is non-existent elsewhere? That's...interesting, to say the least.

I quote the words of Linus (who's on my temp. icon): "There are 3 things that I've learned never to discuss with people: religion, politics, and the Great Pumpkin!"

 

Free will is supposed to be man's choice of whether or not to do good or wrong. God doesn't actually CONTROL every part of our "destinies". He points out the right path for us and we are free to take it or leave it. It's our free will. I think the force is supposed to be similar.

The force basically an energy field that you can USE to do magic tricks, really. It has nothing to do with modern religion.

The force is a tool. You can use it to:

Lift X-Wings from Swamps
Send mind e-mails when hanging outside clow cities
Gain superior targeting skills
Tricking people

The Jedi has all this religion and philosophy, what is fine, but that's just THEIR conception of reality. The Sith have a completly different view of the force. They might be evil, but they can use the force the same way.

As you see, there's a light and a dark side of the force. It's more of an ancient eastern good/life balance thing. It has little to do with Christianity.

When I pointed out Han's line in ANH I wasn't trying to make it seem as though the force could actually CONTROL everyone's destiny. I was pointing out the fact that Han doesn't believe that there's an "all-powerful force". Ben smiled because, you see, he knew what Han didn't.

Han said he didn't beleive in a all powerful force CONTROLLING everyone's destinies. He was right.

Obi-Wan smiled because he is good. His other option was to use force choke, like Vader on the Death Star. It's a similar argument, really.

Yet the fact that people HAVE been believing this same thing since prehistoric times should make you wonder...

Monotheism? No, they have not.

The first religious manifestatins were, AFAIK, burial rituals and the praise of season or day/night divinities.


Okay, so afterlife exists only for a few dead Jedis, and is non-existent elsewhere? That's...interesting, to say the least.


That's not even it. In the EU this afterlife is temporary, and after a time the Jedis "lose their identity" in the force.

But it would be cooler if they all had afterlifes on SW.

 

Don't beleive the EU stuff on the SW afterlife. It's going to be a plotpoint in ep3. We'll have to wait and see.

 

I was very disapointed to read that stuff. So, Obi-Wan was supposed to say goodbye to Luke and disapear? What a lame afterlife!

He dedicated his entire life for good and justice, and all he gets is a few years as a glowing ghost and the hability to talk to luke sometimes, then disapear?

I hope the movies make this way better.

Or it will be much more interesting to be a Sith Lord. You get cooler lines, also.

EDIT: Better choise of words

 

If the EU is to be believed, little Boba Fett should have ACTUALLY been named Jaango Fett.

Point is, I think we can go to the EU as long as it doesn't contradict the films. When they contradict, the films win out.

A quick example: it certainly SEEMED that Luke's ability to communicate with Obi-Wan had something to do with Obi-Wan choosing to die on the Death Star AND Luke's growing awareness of the Force. Luke's communications with Ben Kenobi progressed:

- An empty voice in A New Hope, after Luke had taken his "first step into a larger world."

- A halucination on Bespin, after Luke had clearly been training (i.e., his ability to telekinetically retrieve his lightsaber).

- A fully conversational Obi-Wan on Degobah (ESB), after Luke had trained with Yoda.

- A full sit-down-and-chat conversation on Degobah after Luke had learned all he needed to know (ROTJ).

Zahn's theory that Obi-Wan would later disappear into the Force doesn't stand up to what we know from the films.


The force basically an energy field that you can USE to do magic tricks, really. It has nothing to do with modern religion.

The force is a tool. You can use it to:

Lift X-Wings from Swamps
Send mind e-mails when hanging outside clow cities
Gain superior targeting skills
Tricking people

The Jedi has all this religion and philosophy, what is fine, but that's just THEIR conception of reality. The Sith have a completly different view of the force. They might be evil, but they can use the force the same way.

As you see, there's a light and a dark side of the force. It's more of an ancient eastern good/life balance thing. It has little to do with Christianity.

Thing is, the Star Wars films DO support the Judeo-Christian notion that good is ultimately more powerful than evil.

The Force lends itself to a symbiotic relationship: it guides you AND obeys your commands. The Dark Side is clearly a corruption of the Force. The idea of free will remains intact, so Dark Siders don't lose their ability to harness the Force, but doing so with dark intent CLEARLY DESTROYS THEIR PHYSICAL BODIES, particularly Palpatine's.

A devotion to the dark side is a spiritual cancer that leads to physical decay.

 

Hell isn't just something that's in Christianity (I'm one myself) Most religions have some thing where you go when you die...

 

- A fully conversational Obi-Wan on Degobah (ESB), after Luke had trained with Yoda.
- A full sit-down-and-chat conversation on Degobah after Luke had learned all he needed to know (ROTJ).

So the fact that they had the time to sit down and chat was an evolution for Luke?


Zahn's theory that Obi-Wan would later disappear into the Force doesn't stand up to what we know from the films.

Don't know who Zahn is, but I hope you are right, it's sounds like a stupid theory.


Thing is, the Star Wars films DO support the Judeo-Christian notion that good is ultimately more powerful than evil.

Well, almost EVERYONE believes in that.

Communists say that a Communist government is GOOD, and will ultimately overthrown the Capitalist order. So is SW communist now?

Besides, Vader believes in "GOOD", he likes "GOOD". Every time something he likes happens, he says "GOOD".

Even Palpatine, when Luke defeats Vader, says "Good, good" and not "Evil, Evil".

They are on the DARK SIDE, but they might think it's the "good" or the "right" one.

SW have almost nothing to do with Judeo-Christian religions beliefs. First of all, they talk to ghosts all the time. Second, their religion is dedicated to a FORCE FIELD that is generated by SIMBIOTIC MICRO-LIFE FORMS.

And you can find A LOT of elements from Eastern religions like Buddhism, Brahmanism, etc.

Please understand that those things have NOTHING to do with what I actually believe in. I?m just saying I don?t try to reflect those beliefs in Star Wars. When I say that there?s no Christianism references on SW I?m not saying anything ?against? Christianism.


The Force lends itself to a symbiotic relationship: it guides you AND obeys your commands. The Dark Side is clearly a corruption of the Force.

Says the JEDI. The SITH thinks differently. The JEDI are able to perform as much magic tricks as the Sith. Even better ones. The Siths are way more successful. 3 our 4 Siths basically destroyed the entire Jedi Order. This movie is not about the JEDI?s point of view, but it?s not the only one.


The idea of free will remains intact, so Dark Siders don't lose their ability to harness the Force, but doing so with dark intent CLEARLY DESTROYS THEIR PHYSICAL BODIES, particularly Palpatine's.

You only see that happening on Palpatine. Perhaps he was too strong with the Force. We don't know yet. Remember that on ROTJ he is very old. We will have to wait for EP3 to that, but I agree that AotC Palpatine appears to be rotting from the Dark Side.


A devotion to the dark side is a spiritual cancer that leads to physical decay.

Depends. The Jedi that died in AotC decayed faster then the Sith lords of that movie!

It was the FORCE that made Vader survive. It was the FORCE that kept Palpatine alive for so long. ?Don?t underestimate the FORCE?.

Sure, the Rebellion won in the end, but it was not the force who made it happen. Vader killed Palpatine by throwing him down a big hole, not by a magic trick. Sure, he was strong with the force, but that is something to remember.

The Rebellion also won because Han Solo destroyed the Shield Generator and fighters destroyed the Death Star main reactor.

 

Well, I don't think that the Emperor died from the fall. He explodes before hitting the ground but that's a different debate alltogether.

 

Well, I don't think that the Emperor died from the fall. He explodes before hitting the ground but that's a different debate alltogether.

Well, whatever. It happend not due to a force attack, but the fact that Vader grabbed the old !#%&#!@ and threw him down the big hole.

EDIT: Spelling, and !#%&#!@ for the bad word.

 

not trying to be picky but I don't think he died by "natural" causes. I think he exploded because of his rage for Vader's betrayal. *shrug*

 

not trying to be picky but I don't think he died by "natural" causes. I think he exploded because of his rage for Vader's betrayal. *shrug*

Now wait a second.

Are you saying that Palpatine spontaneously EXPLODED of anger like a loonie toon?

 

Well, anger can destroy you.There's actually people who have literally died after and anger attack! So the idea is not so bad.

1.The Force lends itself to a symbiotic relationship: it guides you AND obeys your commands. The Dark Side is clearly a corruption of the Force.

2.Says the JEDI. The SITH thinks differently. The JEDI are able to perform as much magic tricks as the Sith. Even better ones. The Siths are way more successful. 3 our 4 Siths basically destroyed the entire Jedi Order. This movie is not about the JEDI?s point of view, but it?s not the only one.

No,it isn't, but we cannot forget the fact that Sith themselves know that they are choosing the path of badness, which doesn't mean it's wrong for them, but also the assassin knows he's doing bad, tought he may thing that what he's doing is wrong.

One more point:that's true that unrighteusness and the people who practise it last for a long time. That happens in our world too.
Their actions seem to bee more powerful, but they only seem to be like that,'cause the real battle is the one which develops inside yourself to remain in good when you really want to act the same hatred way others have acted to you.

Doing good to soemone who has done bad to you is the most powerful punishment.