Bubba, those are some good points! Your posts are very well thought out. It was Anakin's love for his son, not the "light side". The light side of the force had 20 years to act on Vader and did nothing at all. Obi-Wan could not help Luke, even if he was "more powerful than Vader could possibly imagine". Anakin made his own destiny, it wasn't the "force" controlling him. THE FORCE DOES NOT CONTROLL PEOPLE, IT GUIDES THEM. There is such a thing as a FREE WILL, are you familiar with it? Anakin saved Luke because he went back to the light side. The Sith, who are on the Dark Side, don't let themselves love anyone. Hack, they probably even cease to love at all. Look at Palpatine. So the lightside had 20 years to go to work on Vader huh? Well Vader wasn't exactly going to decide, "well, I'm a Sith, I'm totally on the darkside, and the dark lord is my master, so I'm going to go on the lightside now." Vader wouldn't have gone on the light side. He was devoted to the power of the darkside. Obi-Wan could have helped Luke if he had wished to, but he chose not to because Luke had the right to choose his own path. Luke can't have his mentor babying him all the time. Luke defeats Vader using THE DARK SIDE, Palptine zaps Luke, and Vader destroys Palpatine. Sure, then he was Anakin, but he was light side but a few seconds before he destroyed the Emperor. And Vader did it by physically throwing Palpatine on a big hole, not by using some light side trick he learned from Yoda. But he was on the lightside. If he hadn't been, he would not have thrown Palpy down the hatch at all. Those seconds counted. He may have destroyed Palpy physically, but does that matter? He did it while on the lightside. A major point of this thread was that Obi-Wan's smile on ANH was a big statement about how the force controls everyone's destinies. Aaaugh, I thought we'd cleared that up!!!! Obi-Wan did NOT smile because the force controls people's destinies. He smiled because he knew there was a force, though Han insisted there wasn't. You are the only person I've ever seen who's insisted otherwise.