Star Wars and Where Lucas went astray

The real name of this thread should be:

Star Wars and Where the Fans went astray

really, think about it

 

Gone completely commercial and made films with lots of Jedis fighting Siths, and basically pointless action with no real story.

and making SEs with repetitive, unnessesary scenes (jabba, greedo, boba fett), start charging for advertisements (hyperspace) and made films with lots of jedi fighting siths (TPM, AOTC) with pointless action (pod race, droid factory) and no real story (love story, gungans, most of TPM and AOTC). wow you explained much of where Lucas went astray! nice!

 

and making SEs with repetitive, unnessesary scenes (jabba, greedo, boba fett), start charging for advertisements (hyperspace) and made films with lots of jedi fighting siths (TPM, AOTC) with pointless action (pod race, droid factory) and no real story (love story, gungans, most of TPM and AOTC). wow you explained much of where Lucas went astray! nice!



For one thing it is not Lucas who is charging the fans with Hyperspace that is LFL.
Secondly the PT is doing the same thing as the OT in its lightsaber fights, it's hardly lots of Jedi vs. lost of Sith now is it.
Thirdly there is a story there, you just conveniently ignore it.

 

That's funny, so does George Lucas. And why dosent he have decisons over the big things that happen in a company named after him (hyperspace)? if he is really not in it for the money why dosent he make it free? The man has enough money anyway.

 

and making SEs with repetitive, unnessesary scenes (jabba, greedo, boba fett)

You do realize those are characters, and not scenes, right? A scene is a subdivision of a movie occuring in a single setting with a single running action, while a character is a personality assumed by an actor in a movie. Jabba the Hutt, Greedo, and Boba Fett, are therefore all characters. Just figured you should know this.

start charging for advertisements (hyperspace)

Gee, stuff costs money? Duh, I thought everything in the world was free! More on this below.

and made films with lots of jedi fighting siths (TPM, AOTC)

Yeah, because no Jedi fought any Sith in the OT! (Psst. Obi-Wan's a Jedi. So is Luke. And Vader's a Sith. Maybe you didn't know that before, but now you do. No need to thank me.)

with pointless action (pod race, droid factory)

Those all were incorporated into the plot. A pointless action scene would be one in which events were axactly the same when it ended as when it started. Now, could there have been another way to incorporate the same plot changes? Sure. Could the same be said about some action sequences in the OT? Yep. Do I love them all equally. I sure do. Doesn't mean you don't have to, but just because you don't like something doesn't make it pointless.

and no real story (love story, gungans, most of TPM and AOTC).

One of the funniest parts of this clause is that right after saying there's no story, you reference the love story. I think you've made a little bit of a contradiction there.

And "story I don't like" is not the same as "no story". If you didn't see a story in those movies, you must not have been paying very much attention. Perhaps reading one of the numerous plot summaries would help you out there.

Oh, yeah, almost forgot to mention: the Gungans are characters, not stories. See above for more info on that.

if he is really not in it for the money why dosent he make it free?

Because things in life don't come free just because you don't feel like paying for them. No one's forcing people to buy Hyperspace. If they want to, they pay for it. If they don't, they don't get it.

Complaining about this is basically saying: "Make everything free! I don't want to spend money! Gimme gimme gimme!"

I just wondered something: are the people who complain about Hyperspace going to demand that they be given the OT DVDs for free in 2006? It's the same basic principle.

 

nm

i wont respond to people who have to resort to calling me "idiotic"

 

You do realize those are characters, and not scenes, right? A scene is a subdivision of a movie occuring in a single setting with a single running action, while a character is a personality assumed by an actor in a movie. Jabba the Hutt, Greedo, and Boba Fett, are therefore all characters. Just figured you should know this.

you do realize i was referring to the scenes with those characters. just figured you would know this. thanks for rudely pointing out the obvious.

Yeah, because no Jedi fought any Sith in the OT! (Psst. Obi-Wan's a Jedi. So is Luke. And Vader's a Sith. Maybe you didn't know that before, but now you do. No need to thank me.)

you will have to bring it up with your equally rude cohort, DarthTerrious. that was his point not mine.

One of the funniest parts of this clause is that right after saying there's no story, you reference the love story. I think you've made a little bit of a contradiction there.

youre right, i should have said love "story" since there really isnt any story there. if you find one, please feel free to point it out to the rest of us.

fans like you are the perfect target for the Lucas marketing machine when you think you are getting anything other than pure advertising and publicity for your hyperspace bucks. every time a fan says things like "Do I love them all equally. I sure do" Lucas has a $20 orgasm.

oh, and of course i dont expect to get a DVD for free, anymore than i expect to have to pay to watch commercials, which is what hyperspace members are doing.

 

I'm not saying everything should be free. But Georgie already has more than enough merchandice and what not to make money off of.

 

Gone completely commercial and made films with lots of Jedis fighting Siths

right, because Star Wars is really supposed to be about robots fighting clones. who wants to see any of that Sith v Jedi nonsense?

 

The real name of this thread should be:

Star Wars and Where the Fans went astray

really, think about it

Wow! Someone here really hit the nail on the head.

And why dosent he have decisons over the big things that happen in a company named after him (hyperspace)? if he is really not in it for the money why dosent he make it free? The man has enough money anyway.

Bill Gates has enough money anyway. Why aren't all Microsoft products free? And why, when he decides to "upgrade" Windows, do I have to pay to upgrade all of my other Microsoft products? It just doesn't seem fair!

What? It's HIS product? And in this society we charge people who want the products we create/distribute? Our society is built upon such capitalism? And what's that? He has employees that need to be paid too? Thousands of people who depend on income from the company, in all it's various forms, to provide their weekly paycheck so they can survive? Well...so what? It's still not fair that I have to pay!

I'm not saying everything should be free. But Georgie already has more than enough merchandice and what not to make money off of.

That does not matter in the least. I can't believe how many people try to use the "he has enough money already" argument. First of all, there's no such thing. And second, as I already stated, our society is based on capitalism. We need things to be sold and bought in order to survive. And if he can make a profit, (which is something EVERY company is trying to do,) then SO WHAT? Mobil posted near-record profits two years ago, and promptly raised the price of gas an average of $.20 per gallon. Why? Two reasons; because they could and because they wanted MORE profits. That's what they're in business for, after all. Same with Lucasfilm.

right, because Star Wars is really supposed to be about robots fighting clones. who wants to see any of that Sith v Jedi nonsense?

Ah - another person who knows Star Wars better than the people creating it. I just cannot get enough of these people who know their way of looking at things is the only correct way.

 

I think people should bear in mind that these forums are here to allow us to discuss our opinions, not pass judgement on each other.
I realise George is just going to make the films as he wants them. This may differ greatly from what I think would be best, but it is just my opinion. DarthTerminus, I agree with most of what you have to say.

Lucas went astray when he stopped being a filmaker and became a businessman. Allowing commercial considerations to affect the production is certainly not going to result in the best possible movie.

Also, while I can understand why he may be reluctant to relinquish any control, he should not be writing. He has admitted himself that he's no good at it.

 

Agent_Buckwald

George is a filmaker, technophile AND a buisnessman.

There are certian expenses that have to be met- and according to numerous biographys, he inherited his fathers furgal buisness practices. The toys, games, books and the like are part of the "money" part of film making. Unlike many, Lucas does try to maintain quality in in liscenced products.

He fired on of his financial employees- after he suggested to get rid of ILM, because it wasn't as "profitable" as other buisness ventures that the company could be in.

He's built an entire corporation with the idea of helping filmakers achieve their dreams. He's also a visionary who is trying to bring the film industry up to new technology.

And Lucas has never said he was a bad writer. What he said was that writing for him was very difficult. He knows he is more of a visual storyteller than a verbal one.

Over all, Lucas isn't Bill Gates. He's not trying to stomp out the competition. He enjoyes other movies, like Lord Of The Rings, and the Matrix. He just wants to see his story told- and he is willing to share his "secrets" with eveyone else.

 

"Lucas went astray when he stopped being a filmaker and became a businessman. Allowing commercial considerations to affect the production is certainly not going to result in the best possible movie. "

You should know that Lucas had always planned for there to be a huge line of toys from the original Star Wars. That was part of the thought process from the beginning. So, your theory should apply to all five films, not just some of them.

"Also, while I can understand why he may be reluctant to relinquish any control, he should not be writing."

He was just as much a control-freak during the making of ANH as in any of the others, and he wrote that one, too (although it was touched-up later, just as AOTC was).

 

It makes me laugh when I read people slagging off George Lucas, afterall if it wasn't for him we wouldn't have any Star Wars and we wouldn't be talking in these forums.

 

I always thought that Anakin had to be that young in Episode One so that the trilogy could take place over fifteen yeras or so, instead of three. You know, that way we see that Anakin has been with Obi-Wan most of his life. Thus making it more tragic when they fall out.

 

I disagree about the Ewoks. (All those who are surprised please raise your hand ) It was impossible to leave them as Wookies, because Wookies were no longer primitive. The theme of these simple people defeating the technologically superior enemy is too important to drop. Ewoks defeated the Empire through sheer numbers, but more importantly through determination. How can anyone want that gone.

Plus, if there's ugly in the universe, there has to be cute too. And cute as they are, they're also viscious little fighters.

YubYub and TG- Protecting fangirls from hormonally gifted fanboys since 2002

 

That is a great point Daughter of YubYub...


On Lucas....he made these movies(PT and Special Edition) the way he wanted them made. Whether it was for money or because it was his vision is really beside the point. The fact is there are many people who loved the prequels whether they were examples of Lucas just trying to cash in or not. Whether it was vision or not there are still people who will hate it.

I enjoy all the movies but they are not all equal. I think there is a much better movie burried beneath all TPM's "mistakes"(or at least what I saw as mistakes). The early drafts, I believe, show this. Lucas had a great concept -it just slipped away somehow and became a good summer movie rather than a film on par with the original films. And I think the same thing can be said of AOTC(I haven't read any old drafts yet). Return of the Jedi could be another example and while Wookies shouldn't have fought at Endor I think it would have been more believeble if it wasn't Ewoks(I don't know what the original concept was).

BTW.. I do understand that these movies are for kids and so aspects like Jar Jar don't really bother me. Ewoks do, however, as it makes the story seem rediculous.

Thats all for now....

 

Ah, but see, it has to look ridiculous in order to make the point. The more believable that fight could become, the less it would make its point. It's a very important theme in Star Wars (and going back to THX 1138), the idea of the dystopia, mankind being enslaved by technology rather than being served by it. The Empire, and Vader, represent the machine, and we need to have the small and meek - the Ewoks - defeat the machine with merely resolve, spirit, and determination. If you replace Ewoks with a fierce badass army, it would look much cooler, but you totally lose that vital point.

 

"By pursuing his own interest he frequently promotes that of the society." - Adam Smith

Even if Lucas is doing all this for money, which I seriously doubt, we still reap the reward.

And there's nothing wrong with Hyperspace. It's the same thing as buying an "Episode III Production" catalog subscription, except it's cheaper and you get a hell of a lot more.

Cometgreen

 

- See above....10 year old Anakin.....marketing ploy to appeal to kids and draw them in. Pointless and foolish.
Imagine the Parity if Anakin were found by Obi Wan (as mentioned above) when he was about 17. That is the same age as Luke and the audience could see the simliar threat to their falling to the Dark Side.

Talk about being a backseat driver...

You have a lot to learn about psycology, my friend. It is important that Anakin be shown as a kid simply because a lot of problems start there. There would have been no pain if he was forced to leave his mother at 17. Do you ever watch the History Channel? Hitler, Saddam Hussein, etc. all had troubling childhoods. It's important to see this.

I don't think I have to comment on the rest. I'll just say that I'm glad Lucas is in charge instead of you.

 

Darth Terminus, I agree with many of your points.

 

Personally I really liked TPM until I came on the sight and was shown what was 'wrong' with it. After that I didn't much like AOTC either. Now I think the PT should be done again or left to rest really it dosent bother me. I can still make up starwars differently in my own mind and really enjoy it.

Vader Fett

 

Lucky someone was there to tell you what to think eh?

I still really like TPM. I wish someone would explain what's wrong with it to me so I don't keep enjoying it when I watch it.

 

As a film it is good, yet ist id not of the OT calibre.

Its' all subject to opinion of course, all are as wrong as the make you out to be

 

"Originally, when there was going to be 7, 8, and 9, they were going to be about Luke's search for his twin sister. "


lol that would have been so retarded.