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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Star Wars Battlefront 3 Speculation, hopes, discussion

Discussion in 'Archive: Games' started by NightHunter319, Dec 10, 2005.

  1. Lo0kout_4_m3_I_tk

    Lo0kout_4_m3_I_tk Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2009
    It be true.
    The LA forums aren't HORRIBLE. BUT, as you would agree, most kids would just ASSUME that the only place to discuss SWBF3 is at the publisher's website. Therefore, you have the general, decent community, and the community of kids who are just waiting for the game and expect that the more of them who join without making good, feasible arguments as to why the game should be made (Which Ducky DOES), the more chance LA will make the game.

    Whereas as JC gets almost ONLY the die-hard SW fans, without the (presumptively from Ducky's point of view)annoying kids who just join LA forums without any following of the progress of the game's development, making already known/disproved statements.

    So the LA Forums ARE good. Just take out that annoying fluctuating group of one week/month members that come with ALL game publishing companies.
     
  2. Commander_Ducky

    Commander_Ducky Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Whilst I would agree that the LA forums aren't the most sophistocated, and they realy irk me very much at times, they arn't completely bad. But that's not realy what about it that bothers me.
    It's the grand assumption by everybody that LA are acting poorly in the creation of this [and their other] games. For example, Sarlaccsaurs comment about how they should stop listening to the 'noobs' on the LA forums. o_O
    They're most likely not.
    And even if they were, we'd have no way of knowing, because they're keeping us in the dark. Who knows what they have made right now?
    If it's good?
    If it's bad?
    I sure as heck don't know, and I know you don't either! So stop automatically assuming the worst and hating on LA!
    All I know is that LA has recently put out a good game: TFU [TFUII looks good to]. Now don't everyone go hating on me for saying this; it actually was quite fun [I know it wasn't the game everyone wants, i.e. SWBFIII, but that doesn't mean it was bad :rolleyes:]. Aswell, they have a history of some good games [less so recently, but as I said, they aren't, by any means, all bad]. And that gives me reason to believe, or at least hope, that they still know what they're doing. So seriously: stop talking smack.

    Edit: See? There I went. I couldn't help myself, I just had to say it. Again.[face_tired]

    Edit 2: Indents aren't working. Now my post looks ugly :(
     
  3. Lo0kout_4_m3_I_tk

    Lo0kout_4_m3_I_tk Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2009
    Hmmm. I've never played TFU, but #2 looks good. But I've heard people who don't like. I guess it's just opinion.
    The only thing they've done wrong with swbf3 is the timing and change in effort.
    They've left it for a bit and now we need a game 5-6 years after its predecessor. They originally attacked it with full force with FR, but when the GFC took away momentum, they backed down, effectively killing FR. Then they got caught up in TFU2 because of the success of the first, and you can't blame them for that.
    Now they've got a bunch of Star Wats/BF fans wanting MOOARR SWBF3 but even more video game consumer wanting mOAR other stuff.
    So they're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.
    All the peeps who could have done it are either: bankrupt, dissolved, busy or owned by enemy publishers. Now they need to think of someone new to develop it before they get bought by a big publisher as they are beginning to ween away a little, or else SWBF3 may never be realized.
     
  4. sarlaccsaurs-rex

    sarlaccsaurs-rex Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2007
    The last post one page ago I said I was sorry.[face_plain]

    P.S. Today was my B-day new xbox slim for me![face_dancing]
     
  5. Lo0kout_4_m3_I_tk

    Lo0kout_4_m3_I_tk Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2009
    Oh, well, Happy Birthday![face_dancing]
    Best Wishes.
    OOOOoooOOooo new Xbox slim, nice haul.
     
  6. Commander_Ducky

    Commander_Ducky Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Ok, cool, thanks. Apology accepted :)

    Oh, realy? Happy Borthday dude! [though don't you have an xbox 360 already... why do you need a slim? o_O ]

    Lookout, we don't know why the backed away from FR, it cold have been because of the GFC, but it could also have been because it actually sucked, or it could have been for another billion different reasons. So don't assume things like that.
     
  7. Lo0kout_4_m3_I_tk

    Lo0kout_4_m3_I_tk Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2009
    Well I don't know about it being a crap game, but certainly, MANY games companies were hit hard by the GFC, despite video games market being perhaps one of the best surviving ones.

    So there is strong reason to believe, judging by FR's already poor economic state due to low human resource from firing and leaving, poor success from Haze(which chewed up a lot of time and money without good return), trying to pull off two major games at once (Time-splitters 4 and SWBF3), the rumor that they were constantly needing funds from LA and the complexity of the game, made it too expensive and more risky/not as worthwhile for LA as TFU1/2 with the GFC looming.

    So they cut the deal to cover there eggs, and ran, leaving FR to dissolve slowly too the core team who were snapped up by Crytek. It's a pitty really, TS 2 was one of the best games for PS2 ever made.

    I heard a very sketchy rumor that they were diverting funds from SWBF 3 to Time-Splitters 4.
    But meh.
     
  8. sarlaccsaurs-rex

    sarlaccsaurs-rex Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2007
    [face_peace] Thanks, I also got Halo 3 ODST.

    I got the new slim to replace my broken x-box 360 duh!:p Remember on the last page on that list of things I wanted, I wanted to replace my broken x-box.

     
  9. Commander_Ducky

    Commander_Ducky Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2008
    [face_plain] L00kout, the only problem with that explenation is: it makes no sense. [face_tired]
    SWBFII was LA's best selling game [at least at the time. I think TFUI is now, corect?], and I wouldn't be surprised if SWBFIII became a new bestseller; and even if not, I can guarentee you it would sell,alot. Regardless of wether it was good or not. Now, if it was as awsome as everyone assumes [not to everyone: assuming is stupid] it was, they would sell alot more, and they would most likly make a good profit.
    Also, it was apparently near completion [if not completed], and leaving/abandoning a game after they've funded it's intire creation, without releasing it [and making any money from it, or at least attempting to break even], is a waste of money. Seriously, they gain nothing from leaving a nearly completed game. From any point of view. They wasted money, without even a hope of regaining it. They would now have to go to another company and refund the entire creation of another version of the same game.
    ... so... how does that help LA financially exactly? :confused: Paying for two versions of something, when the first was awsome anyways? :confused: Well, I'll tell you how: it doesn't.

    The only reason for them dropping it that I think realy makes sense is if it wasn't very good, and they didn't want to release it due to lack of quality. Or that it was so bad that it would barely sell at all. So, I think quality is the bigger factor here.



    Oh realy Sarlaccsaurs? It broke? Ok, that makes sense then:p
    Oh yeah? How is it? I heard it was ok but, tbh, I'm not the hugest fan of Halo. I think it's overrated.
     
  10. Lo0kout_4_m3_I_tk

    Lo0kout_4_m3_I_tk Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2009
    Well. You can see the reports disclosed by FR employees that the game was actually in the alpha stages of development. (Not too far in development, but enough to have taken some funding and time)

    And even that short bit of footage seen, it was widely accepted that there was not much that FR could have fudged that would have brought down the quality. In fact, even after they were dispatched, and had nothing to gain from saying it, FR employees stated that it was there best game.

    There are even official statements regarding FR becoming, in LA's eyes, overly needy in its funding.

    And TFU came out and LA was like "WHOASIEZ!" "We haven't done a sequel to this already, it's a fresh idea, AND it's guaranteed to sell, oh and even non-SW fans liked it!" And with the GFC they just thought that maybe more money in one good game would be better than less in two, particularly with the slowly drifting away LA fan base.

    On top of that. FR had concepts for a fourth game, probably condoned by LA. And if the quality WAS an issue, they would have noticed it progressively IF it was a the later stage of development you'd thought it was, it would have even been noticeable at the stage that it did finish at.
     
  11. Commander_Ducky

    Commander_Ducky Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Well, everything I've read seems to say it was far in production. Also, from the videos we've seen, it looks pretty far in production [with finished looking cut scenes, polished-ish lookng graphics/maps, etc...]

    And if it was just in the alpha stage, then they could have seen the quality of the game wasn't good and shut it down pre-maturely before they put too much money into it. Or they could have, as you mentioned, decided to wait untill they could fund it with as much as they can, instead of trying to fund 2 big tittles. Also, if it was in such an early stage it couldn't have been that good yet anyways o_O, oso people don't realy have much to complain about no matter what way you look at the situation.
     
  12. sarlaccsaurs-rex

    sarlaccsaurs-rex Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2007
    I'm starting to think that LA dosen't even want us to have battlefront 3.[face_plain]
     
  13. Lo0kout_4_m3_I_tk

    Lo0kout_4_m3_I_tk Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2009
    S-Rex: It SUCKS, doesn't it?


    Ducky: Oh, yeah. They do those well rendered cut scenes sort of like a "team effort video".

    It was at a halfway point. Far enough to continue, or drop.
    TFU was:
    1) more successful
    2) had a relatively modern engine-didn't need a TOTAL redesign for a sequel
    3) was easier
    4) safer
    5) fresher

    At an alpha stage you can easily gague the quality of the finished product. What we saw in the video WAS good. Certainly WELL, WELL, WELL over the bare minimum level for a good quality title.
    But from a financial perspective, TFU2 was and is better. But it probably needed sole development. And un-doubtingly SWBF3 would have been expensive. And the greater part of the sum was yet to be paid.TFU 2 needed A LOT LESS of an overhaul to make the sequel. Having a small company like FR do your game NEEDS money.

    As for waiting. That's not a good idea. They needed something for after the GFC. That's when there is an influx in spending. They can't have two slow games that have the negs of the GFC without reaping the positives.

    Fans of VG's want the concept of "The most powerful force wielder in the SW universe" Although MOST SW fans want the classic infantryman experience.

     
  14. Commander_Ducky

    Commander_Ducky Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2008
    o_O Dude, all we realy saw in the video was a couple sweet cut-scenes [which don't show quality of gameplay], a few clips of some guys running, one or two flight scenes. Each clip was, like, what? 5 Seconds at the most?
    This tells us pretty much nothing about the actual quality of the actual game :p

    Yes, it may have been more expensive, but what I'm saying is that if it was realy so awsome, believe me, they would make back their money with much profit.
    There are many, many, many, people waiting for a SWBFIII. And if it was realy so awsome, they could greatly expand their fan base/subject group from SW fans to FPS fans. Seriously, I wouldn't doubt if a SWBFIII, regardless of quality, would make more than TFU/TFUII. So, even going from a financial angle, I can't fathom that dropping an amazing SWBFIII game to work on a TFUII game is a good/wise choice. We may be in a GFC, but LA is not poor, I'm I'm pretty sure they could aford w/e they would have to pay to complete the game. o_O
     
  15. Legend_of_Leroy

    Legend_of_Leroy Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    May 16, 2008
    Perhaps there is limited opportunity to sell TFU II. Battlefront games can be made at any time and still sell well, but if they did one now they would only be somehow splitting sales with tfuII.
     
  16. Commander_Ducky

    Commander_Ducky Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Hmm, TBH Leroy, don't think that why. I can't imagine how waiting another year or so would realy hurt sales for TFUII. And if that was the reason, they wouldn't have to release TFUII right after finishing it anyways [no one realy fully expected a sequel anyways], and same with SWBFIII [is was secret, afterall; No one would be the wiser]. To cancel a good game and waste the money for those reasons doesn't entirly make sense.
     
  17. Lo0kout_4_m3_I_tk

    Lo0kout_4_m3_I_tk Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2009
    Well, A LOT of the developers that came out said the quality potential of the game was huge. A lot of the concepts alone were awesome (Multi-height levels, in depth story, from other videos - we saw unique interaction for classes being hit in different body parts with different force, better vehicle "deaths", more realism and Very good graphics).

    Remember, the stage it was at was at a stage where LA could foresee money troubles, it would have been much too expensive, they couldn't stall it as FR couldn't handle that without collapse. TFU was more in-house, MORE succesful, easier and cheaper. But not so much so that it could be developed in conjunction with SWBF3

    Leeroy's point fits in here nicely. When TFU hype is gone, LA can release SWBF3 without the money pressing and without the distractions of a more successful business venture.
    TFU follows a story more strictly, the questions need to be answered and the plot needs to continue. You can't release it ages later with people not having played the first in ages.

    Back on the discussion, SWBF3 sure would have great return. But the production costs would have been too high from a small company like FR. Besides as the ex-FR say. They had a lot of the game done in concepts, but the bit they got paid for, the designing had only begun on a test level with some levels, characters and cut-scenes done.

    I have a sinking suspicion that LA got FR to do all the concepts, ideas, some coding and testing - paying them minimal, then strategically pulling out so the game could be done by another larger company for less, without having to worry about copyright and licensing issues, as there is no company left to be called up by.
     
  18. Commander_Ducky

    Commander_Ducky Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2008
    o_O Which developers say that? FR ones? well of course they would. :rolleyes: As for the graphics, we can't judge them to much: we say a blurry video, and a few character models.

    Ugh, but, dude, the money is not realy that much of a problem. Sure it would be super expensive, but they would make it back, especially if it was truly so awsome. Also, I'm pretty much absoloutly certain that it would be more succesful than any TFU games. No doubt about it. SWBFII was their most succesfull [in sales, and, also, on of the most popular/liked], before TFU. That's for a couple reasons: it's set inbetween ep. 4 and ep. 5 [big deal], and it was their first big star wars game in a while [I'm discounting the Lego ones here, even though they were great]. But the wait, and hype, and popularity around the SWBF series would make SWBFIII a much better seller.

    Dude, what questions? The first TFU realy didn't leave anything to be answered/continued... They could easily have not made a sequel and it would be fine. So, waiting a year or two wouldn't be a problem for it at all :p In fact it might actually be better for it's sales, as you could hype it up more; and it would have a stronger impact on the perception of the story [people would have been thinking that Starkiller actually was dead]; also, after a longer wait players of the original TFU who didn't realy like it to much might be more willing to pick up and play the second one, if the first was less fresh in their minds; etc...

    Dude, you can't judge a game on what it plans to do, but what it does do. So, who cares about the concepts? It's realy the execution that counts.
    lol, as I've said, I just have a sinking suspicion that we've all blown the 'awsomness' of FR's game way out of proportion, and they dropped it because realy it wasn't super good. And 'ok' doesn't cut it, especially when it's costly.
     
  19. sarlaccsaurs-rex

    sarlaccsaurs-rex Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Guys, this may sound crazy. But i'm honestly actually starting to think that LA is trying to avoid a shooter game that is aimed at an audience of ages 12-45 years old, and instead focusing on the kiddie new CGI Clone Wars series ages 6-11. (Yea, I know that sucks.) Yea, I know that TFU is still ultra-violent, but at the same time it seems that whennever the player is given a gun in a game, (laser blasters and bullets alike.) that it is always branded "Evil because you shoot things.":rolleyes: Whereas if you have a melee weapon "It is slightly less bad."
     
  20. Lo0kout_4_m3_I_tk

    Lo0kout_4_m3_I_tk Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2009
    It is depressing, isn't it Rex?

    Back to discussion:
    The graphics. The video was blurred, but remember all the screenshots we got. The graphics, especially for the planned forth one were incredible.

    Yes, it would have good return. But in any event the ratio at which TFU would return would be much better than the HUGE cost it would be for a third battlefront, especially getting it to the high quality you, I and the most part of the SW community would want it to be - all from scrap. The diversity in the number of characters for a third battlefront would be extreme. The number of maps, multi-player set up and such would lead to a cost far greater than One playable character in far less levels, with no multi-player. If LA were to make the game now, they would want to incorporate all of the physics from TFU to SWBF3. Imagine the epic task and cost. And for what? to suit a fan base that is smaller than TFU?

    Without a shadow of a doubt SWBF3 would be better than TFU 2, BUT, the cost to make, WITH a small company like FR would be unbearable.
    Perhaps even more people would buy swbf 3.
    But if LA could spend $10 making a game and make back $50, they would do it over spending $50 on a game, and making back $80.
    Those estimates ARE way out, even as an example to explain a point.
    But you get what I'm trying to say, even if you disagree, right?

    They've got plans for another sequel to TFU 2 already. They're going to use this franchise to try and breathe back some life into LA. I would hold out for a SWBF 3, if it meant TFU would resurrect LA.
     
  21. Legend_of_Leroy

    Legend_of_Leroy Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    May 16, 2008
    That doesn't explain why they made two handheld games and initially gave the go ahead for FR battlefront. And although 'kiddie', The Clone Wars does involve troopers with all sorts of firearms (not many kids shows even allow firearms).

    Its the same reason that they won't make much money from a Shadows of the Empire game right now. With The Clone Wars, The Old Republic and a Live action tv series coming round the corner, people will soon forget about The Force Unleashed. They can make money of TFUII, and this is their best oppurtunity, in a few years or so they'd be doing something else.

    I don't know exactly why FR BFII was cancelled, but the fact they haven't revealed any sort of battlefront 3 would probably be because it could put it at some sort of competetion against other star wars games.
     
  22. Commander_Ducky

    Commander_Ducky Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2008
    You can't judge the graphics by a couple of screens. The y could have put effort into making those screens look beautifull, whilst the ingame graphics, while playing/running around/etc... arn't actually that good. And, anyways, which screens are you talking about?:confused:

    You know, TBH, I've been thinking about it, and it wouldn't realy cost anymore than TFU[II]. For TFU they had to make an entirly new engine, an entirly new story, an entirly new set of characters, the list goes on. That costs alot. With SBFIII they would actually have to put alot less effort into the levels, characters, storys, etc... as most of them are already created/pre-established. And now they also have the new engine to build it around [no cost for creating a completely new one to suit a new game; the Euphoria would be awsome to use in it].
    Sorry l00kout, but the fan base is not smaller than the fan base for TFU. Believe-you-me, the SWBF fan base is larger than the TFU. Not to mention the fan base for the ganre of games which SWBF belongs to is much bigger than the fan base for the genre of games which TFU belongs to! :p


    Well, I know what you're trying to say, I'm just saying you're completely wrong.

    Where did you hear they have plans for a sequel to TFUII already?o_O

    Sarlaccsaurs, I would have to disagree with that comment. The Clone Wars still has violence, wether or not it's as 'violent', it's still guns and violence. Also, TFU is very violent, and melee doesn't make it any less bad. Also, why on earth would they want to make non-violent games? From an intelectual/creative standpoint, and a buisness standpoint, it's just a bad idea.

    Leroy, people won't forget about TFU, not for a long time. Have people forgotten the past SWBF games? Have they forgotten KOTOR? How 'bout Republic Commando? Or even older, the X-Wing games? No... no, I don't think they have :p

    But it wouldn't have to be put in competition. They could make it, and then hold onto it. Just cancelling it wouldn't make sense financially if that was their only reason.
     
  23. sarlaccsaurs-rex

    sarlaccsaurs-rex Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2007
    I dunno guys, a more acurate explanation to what i'm saying is that battlefront wouldn't compliment the cartoony world of TCW in general. Yea I know the whole series is supposedly focused on the war, but still. I guess "casual fans" would rather run around with an iconic lightsaber and dice up stormtroopers, than play as generic rebel trooper # 87-tk429 and run around with an m16 that shoots lasers. (Not my idea of a good game, but a lot of peoples preference.)
     
  24. Lo0kout_4_m3_I_tk

    Lo0kout_4_m3_I_tk Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2009
    Well, there's the well known this one
    There's this, (for SWBF IV)
    These videos of various animations
    There's this artwork page
    There are more art ones, but I can't find them.

    They are good graphics, and animations.

    With the engines, they can't use the TFU engine because SWBF3 is a shooter. They can't use the old swbf2 engine because that's just silly. They would need to incorporate Euphoria, havock and that other one into A new SHOOTER engine. That would be a Momentous and expensive task, especially for a company like FR.

    With the levels and scenery, although it would seem they need to put less effort into levels, They still were planning and making Very Detailed ones.

    More units? Think of all the different classes (regular and special) for ALL the different factions and all the different AI needed for each of these units when they are the enemy.

    I guess you're right on the size factor for the fan base for the genre thing, but remember, in terms of quality, the two best ever games on the PS2 were God of War 1 & 2, The genre TFU most resembles. Also, I could be ignorant and pull the TFU has more buys than SWBF2, but I guess SWBF3 would have quite a few buys.

    Yeah, they are definitely thinking of it. See here 6 mins to 6:30
     
  25. Commander_Ducky

    Commander_Ducky Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2008
    You know, discounting the concept art [which, for 'proffessional' concept art, wasn't even very good], those graphics arn't superb. Infact, I dislike much of it [Han Solo looks awfull, those map/background scrrens are terrible, I would hate to have to play on a map that looks like that x(]. Also, the animation wasn't that great, laughably bad at some points [especially during the TimeSplitters scenes]. So... I would much disagree about the super good graphics.
    And, at any rate, screens like that don't represent the actual game play graphics at all.

    Actually, it realy wouldn't be that hard to transfer the TU engine to SWBF. Not that hard at all.

    So, how do you know that their maps are super detailed? And even if they were, they arn't ever that big. In TFU maps are super detailed, as well as huge. So, less efort
    For a good class based shooter, you don't want more than around 6-9 different classes. And for every team they are pretty much the same, except with different skins. So, pretty much you make one class set, a different pair of specials [if they even hve those] for a few different teams, and make different skins. But as far as what they'd look like, act like, use, etc... it's pretty much all pre-established, so alot less effort would have to go into that than making an en tirly new cast from scratch.

    GOW is very popular, yes, possibly even one of the most popular games around, but that genre as a whole isn't as popular as the shooter genre. And it only has the most buys because it's the newest big SW game. A SWBFIII would surpass it in sales for multiple reasons.

    You know, something I was thinking about is that, I think it's actually a fairly large possibility that they'll be makng SWBFIII in house. Especially with the success of TFU [also in house].

    p.s. thanks for the link, L00kout, I missed that vid. So, there's a possibility, though he said that's all it is, just a possibility. Also, continuing the franchise doesn't neccesarily mean making new games.