Discussion in 'Fan Films, Fan Audio & SciFi 3D' started by Azeem, Dec 1, 2001.

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  1. Anonymous_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2001
    star 4
    In response to Cunard:
    Information from all possible source point to that TIE-Bombers were NOT around pre-esb, and that they were being researched at the time. ISD's also were not around, we are talking about a loooong time ago, not even close to ANH. Although, VSD's would probably be around at that time, considering their old age. Mon Calamari Cruisers, as fighting vessels were not around until RotJ, they had not struck a deal with Mon Calamari shipyards yet, so they were nothing more than transports at that time, not captial warships.
    Do some research, then come back ;)
  2. DaftMaul Former TFN Fan Films Staff

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    When I showed Dark Skies at the cinema to a 'normal' audience they really enjoyed it. But there was one guy who, as soon as I saw him, I knew what he was going to say. He didn't disappoint. He siddled up to me and said:

    "Hmm I suppose it was quite interesting, there where of course about two hundred mistakes. The first one being an SSD in that timeframe, clearly these where not even being built at Kauts ship......."

    My eyes glazed over as he continue his spiel, and I looked at him, and at the other people in the room (who where looking at me and laughing having been 'caught' by this guy) and I realised that the 'main congragation' where my primary audience, the people that demand to be entertained, the same people that don't even know that Anakin will end up becoming Darth Vader!

    Although it's lordable that we know all of this technical information about what ship was designed when, we have to understand that some film-makers use massive artisitic licence to create a more entertaining story, and if we all follow the timeline to the letter half of the fun stuff we see in films just won't be there, and that would be a shame.

    I thought it was great that there where familiar ships like X-Wings, and Mon Calamari stuff. I also thought it was REALLY cool when the shuttle cloaked and panned past the rebel fleet. Excellent. Good on Icicle for taking a bit of a risk. In a genre where people cry out for originality and creativity, and not just lightsabre battles, let's try to acknowledge these things when they occur, and not get to hung up over these kind of details. Granted, there will always be a section of the people that can't cope with such outrage, but to 99% of the world they wouldn't know, or care to know whether the ship is in exactly the right time period or not.

    I personally really enjoy seeing films set in the 'New Hopish' timeframe, becuause that allows all of the good Star Wars stuff (Stormtroopers, X-wings, Darth Vader etc) to be in there. Set it '1000 years before the battle of Endor' and it just ain't the same :(

    I can easily 'forgive' the filmmaker these sins. If they want to use a cool looking ship fifteen years too early, especially if it makes for a more entertaining story and visual spectacle. It's called artisitic licence. I realise that Star Wars is a semi-religion to some people, but to others it's just really enjoyable stuff, and it's great fun to make a film with all the stuff you know and love in the Star Wars universe, even if it isn't 100% accurate. I loved seeing all of the 'Star Wars stuff' in Seeds of Darkness, and the film was much richer for it's inclusion, take it out to maintain canon accuracy and the timeline may be spot on, but there is a danger the film wouldn't have been.
  3. TheCrow Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 1
    Alright. SOD was worth the wait, it was a great movie. The CG's were great, locations were nice, yadda, yadda, yadda...I won't get into more that's probably been discussed already...However, in my personal opinion, instead of being called Seeds of should have been called Rogue Squadron...anyone care to agree or disagree? I'm looking forward to a sequel, if there is one.
  4. icicle Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2000
    star 1
    I realize that everybody scoffs at notion of "cloaking" in a Star Wars film. However I digress. The inspiration came from George Lucas himself. In ESB there is a scene where the Millenium Falcon flies straight at the Bridge of a Star Destroyer. It disapears of the radar and the commanding officer of the Star Destroyer says something like "He must have gone into ship that small has a cloaking device!"

    hhhhhhhhh.....oh my god. Reference to a cloaking device in a George Lucas Star Wars film? Say it isn't so! Yes! even George refers to it in his films. So I think we took our cue from the master himself on this one.

    Also.....lets get real here too. Many of us are much more critcal of fanfilms than the real SW movies. In the instance above for you really think the Falcon could be going that fast at the Star Destroyer and then somehow stop itself quickly and latch onto the backside and shut down its engines in one fell swoop? We forgive these seemingly "non physics based maneuvers" in the real films but hold amateurs accountable for every little detail.

  5. Jedi_Icicle Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2001
    star 1
    I think Daft nailed it! He describes exactly what we felt. I hope you don't think I am rude, but I personally don't really care about all those technicality (wether they should exist in this timeframe or wether they should have this kinda shield etc...). The fun part of making a fanfilm is the fact that you can do whatever you want and add your own ideas!

  6. EagleIFilms Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2001
    star 5
    Sorry I wasn't able to see the film before today, Icicle!

    Very good, I think it's my favo(u)rite fan film at the moment!

    I too noticed the Wilhlem sound. My fan film is not going to be released without at least one useage of it. If anyone wants the WILHELM sound effect, I have a wma sound file of it. PM me.

    For my review:

    Plot: B+

    The plot was very good compared to other fan films out there. I would have given Knightquest an A-, so you're very close to it. I liked the space battle.

    Special Effects: A+

    By far the best special effects out there. We can see the pilots moving their heads!! The best thing was the camera shakes, which is something that everyone should have in their CGI. One problem, though, is that you didn't do it every time, but that's forgivable.

    Acting: B

    Keep in mind that a B is still a good score. The acting was beleivable, if not perfect.

    Music: A+

    The music was wonderful. If you offer the CD, I will buy it. Using the same old same old Williams music is acceptable, but when someone goes through the trouble of using new original music, that deserves an A+.

    Shot Composition: C

    Your major shortcoming. While I didn't expect wonderful things from a fan film, I would like to say one little thing: NEVER ZOOM. Read The Hollywood Eye, you should be able to find it in the library. Please do not zoom, it draws the viewer out of the film in it brodcasts clearly, 'Now the camera is zooming'. It doesn't feel the same as a camera move.

    Ending: B+

    Once again, a fan film with a nebulous ending. I know why you had one, I just don't like them. But who am I kidding? My fan film will have a nebulous ending!
  7. DarthKyp99 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2001
    star 1
    wow that was great. the special effects were terrific and the space battle and lightsaber duel really seemed like it should fit on the big screen. also liked the original soundtrack. nothing but praise here from me
  8. Laserschwert Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2001
    star 3
    OK, first of all, congratulations to your film. It's really fun to watch, and looks great. And all in all I would say all the same positive things my predecessors already mentioned. That's why I start with my criticism right away... just some details (don't worry, nothing concerning the SW-timeline):

    1. Why did you use a handheld-camera in most of the forest-scenes, though some of those shots obviously didn't ask for any camera-moves besides pans? That's a mistake which makes amateur films LOOK like amateur-films. Wasn't a tripod around? *g* Just teasing.

    2. In the X-Wing cockpit-shots... why did the CG-part of the X-Wing (the engines) bounce around, though the seat itself stayed still? I was waiting for the whole thing breaking apart...

    3. The coruscant-shots had moiree-patterns on the buildings. Did you use MAX for CG? Try turning on "summed area filtering" for the texture maps (instead of "pyramidal") and blur the map a little bit.

    4. Color correcting the X-Wing cockpit-shots to the same levels would have made it look more consistent.

    Well... that's all I wanna complain about *g*, don't be mad, you can criticize my fan-film (finished somewhere 2003) when it's coming out. IF it's ever coming out.

    Oh yes, by the by: Wasn't the maneuver the both pilots flew (the one they picked up at Nar-Shadaa) the same maneuver Ben Affleck and Josh Hartnett flew in Pearl Harbor? Well, I don't mind. Great movie... (SOD... not Pearl Harbor).
  9. icicle Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2000
    star 1
    Yes. That was a tribute to Pearl Harbor. In fact we called it the PH sequence. We figured everyone is stealing ideas from Star Wars.....let's be more original and steal some ideas from someone else!!!!!

  10. EagleIFilms Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2001
    star 5
    You think you guys are the masters of stealing from other films, obviously you haven't seen this page from the BYP site...

    TESBY 'Nuff Respect
  11. icicle Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2000
    star 1
    I don't recall saying we are the masters of stealing from other films. I was simply stating that a fanfilm in nature is essentially a ripoff of Star Wars. So why not rip-off other movies too? This was intended to poke fun at the entire fan-film genre... Not to say that we are the master of taking ideas from other films. If I misunderstood your last post forgive me. It however seems like you may have misunderstood mine.
  12. EagleIFilms Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2001
    star 5
    No, I understand what you were saying, truth be told, I'm plugging TESBY while showing that stealing from things other than Star Wars is nothing new.
  13. Jedi_Icicle Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2001
    star 1
    There a re a lot interesting comments so far. Some we expected and other we didn't.
    This is pretty cool! We will be posting something real soon about everything that was said. :)
    Also for those of you interested, we were going to post something about our experience in making SOD. You would be surprised how all the theories and knowledge you know about filming can sometimes be harder or impossible to meet due to lack of equipement, budget, time or crew.... Sometimes you have to make certain sacrifices (even though it kills you and eats you alive... :D )

  14. Cunard Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2001
    star 1
    Again, in defense of SOD and pretty much every SW fan film out there (including some expanded universe), there is not a "set" anything when anything happened, as in when ships were made and deals were struck. Seriously, I do not mean to start any type of argument or have anyone ruffle thier feathers, don't just accuse a film or story to be way off when in all reality, it is fiction. Just because the calamari cruisers are not in the films until ROTJ, does not mean they did not exsist. Anonymous_Jedi said they were not used as fighting vessels until ROTJ, and in a way he is right. The Mon Calamari controlled most of the shipping/travel and they had very large ships. Of course, this is all fictional and not exactly SW cannon, considering this has never been explained.

    Again, I am far from trying to start anything here, and really I am the first one to get annoyed when people start up this type of back-and-forth nonsense when we should be talking about the film. Just thought I would chime in my opinion. Daft, as always, said it correctly in his abouve post, and I agree 100%.
  15. GarenLiLorian Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2001
    star 1
    Hey, first of all, congratulations to everyone who worked on this film. There were a lot of really excellent points in the film, and in many ways it once again raised the bar for the rest of us. But, since I'm tired and crabby from my allnighter last night, I'm going to go ahead and nitpick. Again, wonderful job overall.

    Plot; B. About as good as I've seen in a fanfilm, and excellent for having the idea come out of a FX test, but small things bothered me. Like the most wise JediTAC commented, we never learn exactly why master Rotal would be particularly useful to the rebellion, instead of, say, Mace Windu or Yoda, and sending an entire fleet out to get him, then only sending down one pilot to pick him up seems strangely out of sync. Also, how was Rotal supposed to get up to the fleet? Mira showed up in her X-wing, and they aren't really known for their carrying capacity. Just little details.

    CGI; A+. Fantastic. no complaints, except that at some parts the pilots jiggling was out of sync with the engines bouncing.

    Music; A. Great, amazing work. Mr. Graves is to be shown the highest respect. My only complaint is that a little smidge of the good 'ole J.W. during the saber duels might have added a little to the dramatic effect. But that's a personal choice, and I fully respect yours.

    Direction; B. The cinematography was excellent, the use of special effects in the lightsaber duels was tactful and understated, all in all, the technical directing was excellent. So why the points off? because the acting direction was poor. I realize fully that SW dialogue is hard to do, and also that finding real actors can be a pain in the but, but the people you had were talented, but it only showed sporadically. Rotal, for instance, had several moments where I actually believed him, but just as many where he totally lost credibility with a misdelivered line. He couldn't seem to make up his mind between being a wise and slightly bitter Jedi, and courting with the Dark Side. Either way, it would have been alright, together, I stopped being able to believe him. (No offence to Mr. Mawlawi, I think he was one of the most talented actors) As the director, it's your duty to make sure the actors, as well as the camera angles, are working properly.

    Acting; B-/C+. It's always tough to do amateur dialogue convincingly, and I tried to factor that in. This ties in with what I was just saying, though. Several of the actors just weren't believable. Like any fan film. That is unavoidable. My major beef with this is that most of the actors seem quite talented, but undirected. Overall, the acting came off a bit under emoted.

    Fighting; Space;A. Rotal/Maul lookalike duel; B+. Mira/other Sith; B-/C+. All that needs to be said about the space battle has already been said by the other worthy posters on this board. Absolutely fantastic (minor quibble; uh, did they really try that manuever on Nar Shadda with freighters? Seems like an expensive prank- "haha! we did it!" "Uh, red leader, should we maybe get out of here before we get brought up on murder charges?") Really, though, a wonderful, epic space battle. Rotal's fight sequences were also well choreographed and excecuted. Also, you avoided the tired cliche of dicing up the double saber, so good for you on that count. Mira and the other Sith seemed pretty timid with their sabers, though, and they anticipated where the other person's saber would be far too often.

    Final grade; B+. Overall, a great work and you should be very proud of it. Congratulations again.
  16. Ptx Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2000
    star 4
    OK, i hope you will forgive me when I repeat other points, but I have been making notes as I read though this thread

    Firstly a huge massive congratulations to the makers of this film. It is 1st class all the way. it has some of the best everything and anything I have seen since I don't rememeber when.

    This is just something I have to add before I go any further.

    Do you all rememebr when you were a kid going to the cinema? Do you rememebr that sense of wonder and magic you felt? That tingle in your spine at films you loved, whatever they were? (For me it was Neverending Story, Starchaser:The Legend of Orin, Ghostbusters, Indy movies etc) Wehn was the last time you can honestly saw you felt that at the cinema. The fist big disappointment of my adult world was Jurassic Park, it was good, but it wasn't magical to me. hardly anything has been in the lst 10 years or so, with the Exception of Pixar, and a few others.

    But here I am, 2001, 24 years old feeling that magic again! But this time I get it for free. This year the internet has produced some of the best entertainment I have seen in my life! Killer Bean 2, 405, Duality, Dark Skies etc, and now this. I have to ask, in all seriousness, does it get any better?

    Of all the films I have seen in the last 12 months the only thing that has come close to the wonder of some of these fanfilms has been Unbreakable (Yes, I'm the 50% that loved it). I go to the cinema now expecting disappointment, because I have been let down so many times. Hollywood can make great trailers, but it has forgotton how to make magic.

    But people on this board have not forgotton. And films like this keep it alive. no film can be perfect, whether it is lapses in dialogue, or effects, or casting or whatever, but this film is just another triumph in the fan-film world.

    Why don't you people charge me for this? I don't understand! ;) You make me want to buy toy spaceships again. you make me want to swing a stick and 'Whumm'. You make me want to crash toy cars again.

    Wonderful work, guys. You make me feel like a kid again.

    *wipes tear from eye*
    Now to the details, and other peoples comments...

    1) Cloaking - Who says this isn't Canon? it's mentioned in the original trilogy! (No ship that small has a cloaking device etc from ESB) So they DO exist, they just never seem to be mentioned again.

    2) Once again my ideas have been brougth to the screen before I have been able to do anything :p

    The Wilhelm - I've canned mine now

    3) The manouvre that will 'get the girls' I had the exact thing planned for something else! oh well, i'm used to being pre-empted by now. it all started with rumble in the Bronx... ;)

    4) Jason Graves - who the heck is this guy? I've never heard of him before today! Fantastic work though, his music just raised the film another several notches on the scale of excellence, and it was pretty high to start with.

    To some other comments -

    Time frame? How many shots it takes to blow away an X_Wing? No atmosphere with the wings open??? Are you people insane ???? :p Who cares? It's all fiction anyway! And rememeber, DaftMaul broke ALL the fanfilm rules and he is a global star now! :D

    'Has anyone ever tried to fly an x-wing in a planet's atmosphere with the s-foils open? Just kidding' - DarthAdun

    Precisely! :D :p

    Thank you Icicle Studios!

    I have to go an have a lie down now, but I will be grinning like an idiot for days!

  17. MrBNtrl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 1999
    TheCrow: They should've called it Red Squadron. Rogue Squadron didn't exist until after the First Death Star died. Luke was leader for a little bit then Wedge became leader. But Luke formed Rogue Squadron.
  18. Calibern Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2001
    Well I have to say that this is one of the best Fan Film efforts I have everseen. Overall a very nice piece of film making. It moved well and was very engaging.
    Constructive critisism: The X-Wing pilots and the space battle? Fantastic!! Great banter and dialog. The jedi? I hate to say it but Very boring. There wasa real lack of beleavable emotion. No sense of conflict or drama.

    Again just my Two cred's worth. Thanks much!
  19. poorturtle Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2001
    star 2
    great flick, loved the cg.

    the only thing that bothered me was the pilots in their cockpits: the graphics were great but some of the pilots were bouncing around too much, kinda hokey.

    again, good show, bravo.

  20. PadawanNick Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    I still think this is a great movie!!!!

    Anyway, on the cloaking, here is a quote from the official site on Darth Maul's ship:
    "The Sith Infiltrator is equipped with a terrifying technological wonder -- a full-effect cloaking device that gives invisibility upon command."

    This ship existed and was used by the Sith a full generation before SOD. Also, Maul's ship was made by the same corporation that builds the shuttle we see in SOD. I would say it's totally valid for a Suttle SE (Sith Edition) to exist with a cloak device.

    I still can't get over these space battles and musical score. SOD Rocks!

    Great job guys!!!!

    Have fun.
  21. DaftMaul Former TFN Fan Films Staff

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    Hey superb find Padawan Nick!

    I bagsey Nick as my' Canon PR rep' for my next film, although you may well have your work cut out :p
  22. JediTAC Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2000
    star 5
    For the record, it was requested that I post my review in this,
    the Official Seeds of Darkness thread. So here it is:

    JediTAC's Review: Seeds of Darkness

    Fantastic visual effects and an interesting storyline spell FanFilm success for SEEDS OF DARKNESS.

    With the newest wave of Star Wars FanFilms constantly striving to "raise the bar" in amateur filmmaking and visual effects creation, it?s no surprise that Icicle Studios? SEEDS OF DARKNESS falls right in line with this new standard. As one of the most eagerly anticipated Star Wars FanFilms over the past year, SOD tells the tale of a newly-formed Rebel Alliance?s attempt to retrieve a recluse Jedi Master in hopes of combating (self-proclaimed) Emperor Palpatine?s imperial forces and Sith Lords.

    From the get-go, it is apparent that Icicle Studios wanted this project to look as ?mainstream filmlike? as possible. To this effect, I enjoyed the opening promos depicting Jason Graves? music composition, as well as the Icicle Studio?s promo. I thought that it nicely added to the ?film/theater feel? effect.

    The opening sequence/crawl was very well executed and timed. This is a bit of a pet peeve with me when watching FanFilms utilizing the opening crawl sequence. More often than not . . . the paragraphs are too long, the font is not correct, the scroll is too fast/slow, and/or the overall structure is not correct. SOD?s opening crawl is both well times and executed ? with a message structure that works well.

    The crème-de-la-crème of SOD is the visual effects. Truly, SOD?s visual effects artists took great care in the utilization, texturing/lighting, animation, and overall execution of the CGI effects in this film. The spacecraft movements and motion paths and are smooth and precise. I especially enjoyed the added ?octane speed? in which the animators gave the X-Wing Fighters as they engaged the Imperial Tie Fighters. And while we?re on the subject, the animation of the Imperial Tie Fighters was, in this reviewer?s opinion, fantastic. The various Tie sequences succeed in depicting the menacing force of the Empire ? with it?s new fleet of Star Destroyers and Imperial fighter craft. Further, the animatics of the X-wing?s exterior (with the pilots in the cockpits) were nicely accomplished. I would have liked to have seen a few more shots with the X-Wings communicating to each other from an ?outside? viewpoint (i.e. exterior cockpit shots). Nevertheless, the exterior shots that were included were a nice (and necessary) added touch.

    For the most part, I enjoyed the premise of SEEDS OF DARNKESS. I like the idea that there is a whole lot more going on in the Star Wars Universe than what Mr. Lucas chooses to show us in his films. (After all, the universe is a big place ? and not all of the heroic deeds are performed by a Skywalker or a Kenobi).

    One problem I had with the execution of the story was the part surrounding Jedi Master Rotal. Within the opening crawl text, we are told that Rotal is a Jedi Master who can ?unwind the mystery of the Sith.? However, there does not seem to be any actual ?build up? to the introduction and importance of his character. When Mira is breaking away from the group to go down to the planet surface, there does not seem to be sense of urgency in her dialogue about the importance of her mission. And then, when she finally meets Rotal, there is no exposition into his character and exactly ?why? he can ?unwind the mysteries of the Sith.?

    Other than this . . . I felt that the story worked and flowed fairly well. I liked the way the film introduced the Imperial Star Destroyers and Fighters ? with the Rebel pilots gazing in awe and terror at the power of the New Empire. And whose to say that Tie Bombers and Imperial Shuttles hadn?t been ?created/introduced? yet. Just because Mr. Lucas hadn?t introduced them until ESB and ROTJ, doesn?t necessarily mean that the Emire hadn?t deployed them yet (Remember ? BIG universe).

    Lastly, some of the classic Star Wars cliché taglines were
  23. EagleIFilms Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2001
    star 5
    Wow TAC, that post is so long, it deserves it's own thread...
  24. Janz_Walker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2000
    star 4
    ...says West End Games, TAC. ;)
  25. averagejoe Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2001
    I REALY liked it! It was well worth the wait. And by the way those of you who are getting your Galaxy Guides and pickiing appart the time line.... ITS A MOVIE! Damn you guys sound like a bunch of Knit-picking TREKIES. YES THERE ARE CLOAKING SHIELDS IN SW. If I remember right Darth Maul's Sith Infiltrator has a cloaking shield of sometype too. ESB mentions them. WHO CARES! Can't we all enjoy one FANFILM without the BUZZ-kills posting there knowledge of an NON-EXISTANT fictional REALM! GET A LIFE! Sorry about that momentary loss of forum politeness. I finally got tired of reading complaints about mistakes in timelines and technologies that do not juxtapose with them. IT IS NOT REAL. It's okay. LEAVE MOM's BASEMENT AND GET OUT A LITTLE! George Lucas invented this whole thing to entertain and to inspire. Not to have debates on the timeline of Starwars Technology. SHEESH....
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