Star Wars contradicts itself so much....

It makes me angry.

 

Care to share any examples?

 

The movie? The saga? The EU? The US project to shoot down ballistic missiles?

 

Well, EU isn't 100% canon, so let's just go with the movies...

...wait, I can't find anything that contradicts anything.

 

Not yet, but there's a lot of potential there. Consider all the things in the OT that they have to explain for continuity in the PT. Consider R2's jets. Consider that they don't mention Naboo at all in the OT. Consider all those quotes by the OT OB1 that we're just attributing to being dodgy and not wanting to tell the whole story. There are a lot of things that would have been changed in the OT if they had been made in order.

The way they did this is making it very difficult for them to keep things together. It's like trying to put the picture on the puzzle after the pieces have been cut and it's been disassembled.

 

"Consider all the things in the OT that they have to explain for continuity in the PT."

Vague, not really an example.


"Consider R2's jets."

So they break in the 20 years between III and ANH. A lot of thinks break after 20 years. Or amybe someone removes them, possibly the people the C3P0 mentions in ANH was their previous owner.


"Consider that they don't mention Naboo at all in the OT."

What about it needed to be mentioned? No main characters are there. Padme is long gone. We never see much about Palpatine in the OT at all, let alone his home planet. The rebels don't use it for a hidden base. Vader has rejected his identity and his past, so no reason to go there. Luke probably doesn't know it exists. The only people who have connections to it are people who are trying to hide their past.


"Consider all those quotes by the OT OB1 that we're just attributing to being dodgy and not wanting to tell the whole story."[i/]

Why shouldn't Obi be dodgy? He's dealing with an 18 year old boy that he is trying to teach about the Force. The last time he did that, the kid grew up to be the biggest badass in the universe. He has good reason to keep some things from Luke, he wants to make sure he doesn't do or say anything to him that makes the Dark Side seem tempting. And just perhaps he has a lot of guilt about Anakin's fall and he isn't too eager to spill it out to Anakin's son that he played a part in it. When you watch a close friend under your care kill off hundreds, maybe thousands, of people, let see how forthcoming you are.

 

Gay-Len Kenobi-
Two words:

Puh-

Lease.



Oh yeah, what about "...Yoda, the jedi master who instructed me." "I thought I could teach him(anikan) just as well as Yoda. I was wrong."

 

There are no contradictions whatsoever in either the movies or the EU. If you find one, it's only because you wanted to find one and you ignored any evidence to the contrary.

 

Bib, m'man... that just ain't true. If that were correct, we would know OB1 as Owen's brother and we don't.

 

Bib-
No contradictions in the EU?
Obi-Wan:
"Come to your senses!"

 

All right then, show me a contradiction. I dare you. I sure don't see any, and I've read almost everything in the EU.

One rule of thumb: Whenever you perceive a "contradiction," don't assume that one source overrides the other, but rather that both sources are true.

 

Someone will have to clean up my references here, but in one of the novelizations of the movies (I believe it was ANH), OB1 is referred to as Owen Lars brother. They are not brothers. OB1 is Obi-Wan Kenobi not Obi-Wan Lars and he's probably never even met the Lars family until Ep III.

Movie: not brothers. Book: brothers. Contradiction. Q.E.D.

 

Um, where do you get the idea that they're not brothers? Nothing in the movie says that.

They are not related by blood or marriage, but they are brothers.

 

and where do you get the idea that they arent related by marriage?

 

Oh yeah, what about "...Yoda, the jedi master who instructed me." "I thought I could teach him(anikan) just as well as Yoda. I was wrong."

There wasn't really a point in bringing up Qui-Gon, was there? I mean, imagine:
"Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me until I was about 12, at which point through a series of events I became the Padawan of this other Jedi Master named Qui-Gon Jinn, whom I was with until he was killed by a Sith about 30 years ago and I got stuck teaching the whiney sand-flea, also known as your father."

(I kind of mashed the two instances from the quotes together, but... I think you get my point.
If not, I'll try to explain better... I'm kind of tired so that explanation probably didn't make a whole lot of sense anyway. )

 

and where do you get the idea that they arent related by marriage?

From starwars.com, of course.

 

Just for bib- (I cant resist a good dare.)

Examples of contradictions between the movies and EU:

-Ki Adi Mundi with a red lightsaber.

-Mace Windu with a blue.

-Plo Koon with a yellow.

(The lightsaber inconsistencies go on and on, so I'll stop there. That is sufficient for you to see contradictions in the lightsaber dept. I'll not waste more time on it. On to the slew of others!)

-The emperor is a clone.

-Stormtroopers are not clones.

-The origin of the droids. (I have "Droids" comics chonicling the adventures of c3p0 and r2-d2 50 years before ANH. c3p0 was born only 30 years before ANH. Furthermore, C3p0 was already fully "covered" with gold coverings at that time.)

-Anything involving Boba Fett. (He is in some different "Droids" comics, already in full armor. Those comics take place 20 before ANH. Also, the Dark Empire series says Boba Fett is not human.)

-The very "existence" of Mara Jade. Need I say more? Well, I will anyway. Violates the sith rule of 2. Wasnt at Jabba's palace.

-I have numerous comics where jedi and/or sith die and return as ghosts. Movie jedi cannot do that. (At least during prequel times.)

-Dark Empire 2 highlights a team of Siths. About 8 in total, if I recall correctly. Not to mention that it also involves a team of 4 or 5 jedi that are already fully trained joining luke. What, they just survived the purge? For no reason? Also dont forget that luke, a jedi forbidden attachment, falls in love in that book.

-Which reminds me, he gets married to Mara Jade in another series, doesnt he?

-Numerous novels have Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker facing off before ESB. (While not exactly a contradiction, it clearly did not happen.)



Movie to movie contradictions include, as I mentioned above,

-"...Yoda, the jedi master who instructed me." And "I thought I could train Anikan as well as Yoda. I was wrong."

-Blood coming out of the lightsaber chopped arm in the cantina in ANH.

-Lukes lightsaber on Jabba's sail barge amounting to no more than a green glowing baseball bat.




The difference, Bib, is that most Star Wars fans are detached enough from the MOVIES to realize that they are MOVIES (even the really obsessed ones). Since most are able to admit to themselves that it is fantasy, they have no problems with inconsistencies. Thats what happens when you make movies.

You said that if someone sees any contradictions between the SW movies and the SW EU, its because they want to.

To that I say, if anyone sees any contradictions between SW movies and SW EU, its because they have eyes.

If you DO NOT see ANY contradictions, it is because YOU do NOT want to see any. And therefore, you will create rationalizations to account for all the inconsistencies, that are perhaps POSSIBLE, but nowhere near reasonable.

Much like someone who realizes their religion is not true to itself, but will look for things to support their incorrect belief. Why would someone do that? Because their religion may be their life, or simply the way they were raised, and they do not want to admit that they have been wrong all this time, or merely do not desire to effect the changes in their life, or do not wish to pay any of the consequences that changing their beleif may entail.

They subconsciously know that it is false, but cannot admit to themselves that that is the case, or it would mean changing their routine.

Theyre happy with their comfortable lie, because they cannot allow their world to be rocked.

So, (and this is not meant to be directed towards ANYONE in particular) if you do not see any contradictions in Star Wars, that can only mean that you have allowed Star Wars to become so much a part of your life that you CANNOT ADMIT that there are contradictions - for doing so would reduce your whole existence to no more than living someone else's Cinematic Space Opera. And you do not wish to beleive that your existence is that.

Love Star Wars. Obsess over it. But realize it HAS contradictions, as any fantasy does.

 

This has nothing to do with EU, just the movies. The continuity sucks too. I still love Star Wars though. When finished, I expect the Star Wars Saga to be my favorite movie ever, despite all it's problems.

 

use-the-force-luke, you still haven't given any examples of these so-obvious problems with the movies. Which gives your statement no strength at all.

 

Examples of contradictions between the movies and EU:

-Ki Adi Mundi with a red lightsaber.
He never had a red lightsaber. He did have a purple one once, though.

-Mace Windu with a blue.
What's wrong with that? Nothing says he had a blue saber at the time of AOTC, but they did say he had one during TPM. They don't conflict.

-Plo Koon with a yellow.
See above

-The emperor is a clone.
So? How is that a contradiction?

-Stormtroopers are not clones.
Some of them aren't, most of them are.

-The origin of the droids. (I have "Droids" comics chonicling the adventures of c3p0 and r2-d2 50 years before ANH. c3p0 was born only 30 years before ANH. Furthermore, C3p0 was already fully "covered" with gold coverings at that time.)
"Droids" took place between Episode 3 and ANH. Do a little research before declaring something to be a contradiction, please.

-Anything involving Boba Fett. (He is in some different "Droids" comics, already in full armor. Those comics take place 20 before ANH. Also, the Dark Empire series says Boba Fett is not human.)
Again, "Droids" takes place between Episode 3 and ANH. Dark Empire does not say he's not human.

-The very "existence" of Mara Jade. Need I say more? Well, I will anyway. Violates the sith rule of 2. Wasnt at Jabba's palace.
Mara wasn't a Sith. She does not violate the Rule of 2.

-I have numerous comics where jedi and/or sith die and return as ghosts. Movie jedi cannot do that. (At least during prequel times.)
What's wrong with that? The technique was lost over the years, then either Obi-Wan or Yoda rediscovered it.

-Dark Empire 2 highlights a team of Siths.

Um, no.

About 8 in total, if I recall correctly.

You do not recall correctly.

Not to mention that it also involves a team of 4 or 5 jedi that are already fully trained joining luke.

So?

What, they just survived the purge? For no reason?

Many Jedi escaped the Purge, but many more pledged their service to Palpatine.

Also dont forget that luke, a jedi forbidden attachment, falls in love in that book.

Luke's Jedi Order does not have the same rules as the old.

-Which reminds me, he gets married to Mara Jade in another series, doesnt he?

What's wrong with that?

-Numerous novels have Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker facing off before ESB. (While not exactly a contradiction, it clearly did not happen.)

Why? Because you say so? Nothing in ESB says they never fought before.

-"...Yoda, the jedi master who instructed me." And "I thought I could train Anikan as well as Yoda. I was wrong."

What's wrong with that?

-Blood coming out of the lightsaber chopped arm in the cantina in ANH.

The wound wasn't cauterized completely.

-Lukes lightsaber on Jabba's sail barge amounting to no more than a green glowing baseball bat.

He didn't hit them full-on. He merely brushed them, and they panicked and fell away from the blade.

If you DO NOT see ANY contradictions, it is because YOU do NOT want to see any.

No, I have already proven that there are no contradictions. Please feel free to find more so I can correct you so you won't be spreading that myth around anymore.

And therefore, you will create rationalizations to account for all the inconsistencies, that are perhaps POSSIBLE, but nowhere near reasonable.

I am not creating rationalizations at all. Every single thing I said above is 100% true and is backed up in the EU, so they're not just fabrications of my imagination.

I have proven that there are no contradictions. Anyone who believes otherwise is deluding themselves. Like I said above, if you find a "contradiction," you haven't read all of the EU. Only when you have read it all can you see that there are no contradictions whatsoever.

 

I'm impressed - Bib's done a good job of taking apart your argument rather completly there Next!

 

Bib has got you there guy... I would like to expand on some things Bib has said:

Mara is kept sort of as an experiment, she is on the borderline between Light and dark.

All Padawans are taken under the training of Yoda before they are given a Jedi Master/Knight to train with. Also, would you like talking about someone who was like a father figure to you, who died right in front of you?

All you need is love!

 

the reason for R2 not having the jets or flying things (in the "OT" that is.....) was explained pretty well in the New Essential Guide to the characters.

 

OK, after this, I?m gonna quit. This is really getting into the ?You need a life!? area on both sides. If this doesn?t convince you, then you?re beyond hope. Just like Han Solo in AHN when he said, ?I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful force controlling everything.? You?ve just got to experience it to believe it.

The one biggest example is the EU book ?Splinter of the Mind?s Eye? by Alan Dean Foster. It was a good book. I read it when I was in elementary school way back when it first came out. It happens in the SW timeline right after ANH. Just consider all the things that happen in the book, though.

Some of the inconsitencies:

Luke an Leia kiss. If this had happened in the timeline, the kiss in ESB would have meant nothing because it would have already happened once (or more).

Luke tosses around rocks ? if this had happened, Luke would have been a tested pro when it came to Dagobah

Luke and Vader fight ? The fights in ESB and ROTJ were important because they were the first times that Luke and Vader had been directly combating each other. If they had fought earlier, those fights would have been negligible.

and Vader loses (falls down a well) ? Now here?s a really big one. If Luke had actually won a fight, even if it was a minor skirmish the outcome had been questionable, Luke wouldn?t have been so apprehensive because he had already bested him once!

There are so many other examples just in this one book that it?s silly to even debate it more.

 

I havent read the book, but about the kiss, in ESB, it didnt really mean anything. Leia was only trying to put Han down.

All you need is love!