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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Star Wars contradicts itself so much....

Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by use-the-force-luke, Dec 12, 2002.

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  1. Esplin9466

    Esplin9466 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 27, 2002
    Ah, no one disputes my points. I win. :p
     
  2. Cyber_SkyForce

    Cyber_SkyForce Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Thy logic is undisputable.
     
  3. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek

    Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling star 10

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 1999
    Truly a great work of logic.
     
  4. DarthDrew

    DarthDrew Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 26, 2002
    Bib,

    While I still believe that we all need to get a life since we're discussing these movies in such great detail, I do agree with QuiGonTim that you've done an admirable job of getting everything explained so well. For that reason, I'd like your opinion on something that struck me a while back.

    I was wandering through our local Barnes & Noble when I came across the two coffee table books on ships in Ep V and Ep II. Just out of curiosity, I turned to the diagram for Slave I. I was struck by how different they are. I'm not talking about putting up cabinets or expanding the Merchandise holding area or some such stuff. It looked like Boba Fett completely gutted his daddy's ship and re-did it from scratch. I would liken what I saw to inheriting your fathers 2000 Ford Mustang, gutting it and rebuilding the interior so that the drivers seat is facing backwards and the engine is in what used to be the trunk. Two questions come to mind.
    1. If he did truly gut it and re-do it, why didn't he just order a new ship? That would have been more cost-effective and would have worked as much more of a cohesive unit.
    2. Alternatively, if he ordered a new ship, why didn't this one become Slave II?
    It just seems to me that, if he kept the hull just to have some connection to his father, that shows a large amount of uncharacteristic sentimentality in young Boba.

    I now ask you, as the uber-geek in this thread, what is the EU's reasoning for this redesign? Would a lack of explaination of the redesign constitute a contridiction?

    Thanks for your input, Bib!
     
  5. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek

    Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling star 10

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 1999
    The best explanation is that Boba completely revamped Jango's ship and made it his own. Maybe it would have been smarter to have simply purchased a new ship, but maybe Slave I had some sentimental value for him.
     
  6. JediMasterEllic_Kier

    JediMasterEllic_Kier Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2002
    I disagree that it would have been better to buy another ship. SlaveI is like the Falcon to Han. Boba wouldn't give it up for anything. As time went on he probably just updated everything with the newest technology. His trade requires him to be on top of things. He wouldn't make very good get-aways with an outdated ship.

    Also, as his legend spread, the ship became part of the legend. If you saw some gleaming new ship headed your way, and the guy on the intercom said "hey, I'm Boba" would you believe him? Conversly, if the Slave I came in your area, you sure know who's ship it is, and you will turn the other way. All without a word being said.
     
  7. QuiGonTim

    QuiGonTim Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Since we are talking about ships :
    You know in ESB when the falcon ataches it's self to a star destroyer and the admirals loose track of it. Sombody exclaims " No ship that small has a cloaking device" , well the sith infiltraitor is an earlier and smaller ship and it has one.
     
  8. Verlon

    Verlon Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2002
    The Sith Infiltrator isn't exactly public knowledge though...
     
  9. darthgetalife

    darthgetalife Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2002
    Well Funny thing nobody has brought the whole Ki Adi Mundi thing so far .
    First let me bring to you KiAdi Mundi EU bio from the OS :

    " ?
    A contemplative Cerean, Ki-Adi-Mundi was the sole Jedi Knight serving on the Council during the start of his tenure, sitting amongst an assemblage of Jedi Masters. As a four year old, Ki's raw talents in the Force were discovered by the mysterious Jedi Master known only as the Dark Woman. Ki's family, realizing that the galaxy needed protectors to save the innocent from such threats as Cerea's own unscrupulous raider Bin-Garda-Zon, allowed Ki to be taken to Coruscant to undergo Jedi training.

    Upon entering the larger world of the Jedi, the Council assigned Ki-Ad-Mundi to Jedi Master Yoda. Decades later, Ki-Adi-Mundi returned to Cerea to help rid the world of the marauding raiders. Ki became watchman for the Cerean system, observing his peaceful world undergo the growing pains of joining an increasingly advanced and hectic Republic.

    Despite adherence to the Jedi philosophies, Ki was, in his hearts, a Cerean. He followed the Cerean custom of polygamous marriage, taking a bond wife, Shea, and four honor wives. He fathered seven daughters and became a strong community leader.

    Around the time of the Battle of Naboo, Ki was embroiled in a political struggle as proponents of progress sought to change Cerea's serene ways. Ki's own daughter, Sylvn, joined the radicals, placing her life in danger as she became kidnapped by the criminal gun-runner Ephant Mon. Ki tracked Mon to Tatooine, discovered the duplicitous involvement of the Trade Federation, and rescued his daughter.

    Following his exploits on Tatooine, Ki-Adi-Mundi was invited to permenantly join the Jedi Council, filling a space left vacant by the recently deceased Master Micah Giett.

    Ki-Adi-Mundi returned to Tatooine, searching for the missing Jedi Master Sharad Hett. After adventuring in the deadly desert sands, Ki-Adi-Mundi found Hett and his son A'Sharad, who had been living with the native Tusken Raiders. Hett was killed by the Jedi hunter Aurra Sing, and Ki-Adi-Mundi took A'sharad as his Padawan, continuing the young Jedi's training. ?"

    First the fact that Ki has 5 wives clearly contradict the whole non attachment thing .
    Why Anakin/Padmé love should be forbidden ? why should they marry in secrecy ?

    Some can say that later LFL said that because Ki was a cerean , and the rate birth of male in Cerea was so low ( one at each 1000 births ) the council granted permission to have a lot of women.
    But hey , Lucasfilm said that i believe after AOTC was released. Second they never updated that in in the OS ? wich to me makes this " explantaion" nor EU or canon , just a hearsay .

    Plus the fact that he goes back to try to save his daughter clearly shows he has some sort of attachment towards her ? shouldn't the jedi know that they must let go people of their lives as Lucas himself said .

    Plus Sharad Hett had a SON ? so again the attachmet rule seems to be forgatten ?

    From that imputs of the EU there's no single reason to believe that Anakin could not have a relationship with Padmé .
     
  10. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek

    Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling star 10

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 1999
    A couple Jedi go against the Code regarding spouses and children, which isn't that big a deal.

    Ki-Adi-Mundi was granted special dispensation, since his species has a severe lack of males, and he is invaluable to their gene pool.
     
  11. darthgetalife

    darthgetalife Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Jul 21, 2002
    " A couple Jedi go against the Code regarding spouses and children, which isn't that big a deal.

    But then again , if it's not a big deal, why couldn't Anakin be one of those " couples " ?
    Plus where ( or what) is the reliable source that says KiAdiMundi was granted permission to marry ?
    And how could that cerean people not have learned anything about cloning ?
     
  12. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek

    Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling star 10

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 1999
    Read Ki-Adi's entry in the New Essential Guide to Characters.
     
  13. Esplin9466

    Esplin9466 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 27, 2002
    I guess this is the appropriate place to ask this. All right, I've got the whole "when you perceive a contradiction assume both sources are true" thing down, but I now ask you how you can do this when it comes to the movies and their novelizations. Does Jabba have hair? Are Vader's eyes red? Did Palpatine bounce off the sides of the pit as he fell? Did Darth Maul scream when he died? Not to mention the minor and pointless alterations made to the dialogue. Did they have the same conversation twice? Or how about when what they say remains the same, but with an extra sentence or two stuck in the middle? How does one rationalize these kinds of contradictions? Do the movies simply take precedence in this case?
     
  14. Esplin9466

    Esplin9466 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 27, 2002
    Allow me to take this opportunity to correct myself. Instead of "pointless alterations," it should read "irrelevant alterations." By this I mean such things as Veers saying "You may commence your landing" instead of "You may start your landing." The same thing, just different words. :D
     
  15. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek

    Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling star 10

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    Jul 9, 1999
    The novelizations are a different way of telling the same story. Most of the details are different, but the overall plot is still the same.
     
  16. Esplin9466

    Esplin9466 Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 27, 2002
    How long are Super-class Star Destroyers?

    Actually, let me clarify this:
    How long were the Super-class Star Destroyers Aggressor, Executor, Guardian, Iron Fist, Knight Hammer, Lusankya, Pride of Yevetha, Razor's Kiss, Reaper, Terror, Vengeance, and any others I've forgotten? I'm not trying to point out a contradiction, I'm just wondering if any of the officially given lengths are more official than the others.
     
  17. MikeSolo

    MikeSolo Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2002
    "This has nothing to do with EU, just the movies. The continuity sucks too. I still love Star Wars though. When finished, I expect the Star Wars Saga to be my favorite movie ever, despite all it's problems."

    You contradict yourself :p You say it sucks but still watch it.
     
  18. GrandAdmiralZahn

    GrandAdmiralZahn Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2001
    I hate when you try to tell someone a contradiction they always say "well....thsi could have happened or maybe this." And if frogs had wings they wouldnt bump their a$$. They explain away inconsistencies with a maybe. This is frustrating. Good storytellers do not leave it up to the listeners to surmise the inconsistencies of their stories. So heres a few for you to explain. Basically with the functions of the droids.

    R2-d2 is solely a small crafts astromech and diagnostics droid. Why would a large ship comparable to a nova class frigate have a small fighter droid to repair battle damage. This is NEVER repeated in the OT or EU where there were driods crawling along a large ships hull to repair battle damage. It doesnt fit what the droid was designed to do.

    Also, picture Anakin, a destitute slave. With hardly any money and a knack for building things. So to help him and his mother with daily life he builds a.........Protocol Droid? A protocol droid was made for the senate to help smooth over diplomacies and translate for the many races of the galaxy. The droid is incapable of heavy manual labor due to limited articulation. Building a droid as useless as a protocol droid on a harsh desert planet is insane. A normal, sane human being would build something to either free them of their oppression or to at least help out with the grueling labor.

    Explain that
     
  19. Esplin9466

    Esplin9466 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 27, 2002
    Well, Anakin didn't actually build 3PO so much as he rebuilt him out of the parts of three or so protocol droids he found in Watto's junkyard.
     
  20. Tukafo

    Tukafo Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 18, 2002
    E.T.s in the senate does not make the film E.T. Star Wars canon. They just happen to look the same. By the same logic you would have to classify Schindler's List and Moulin Rouge as Star Wars canon as the main characters in those movies look EXACTLY like some Jedi knights
     
  21. ballz-on-chinion

    ballz-on-chinion Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 2002
    I think the most contridictions people see in the movies is because they want to see them, they can't see for what it's worth "The forest for the tree's" however the only one I really know of between the movies and the EU is Yoda being blue in ESB and green in ROTJ Novels and he's green in both movies.

    Besides lets not forget one important fact here, several people write the novels and the comics and the movies are writtin by one man, Mr. Lucas himself so imperfections will crop up from one and the other.

    If you want contridictions watch Star Trek it's the mother of such problems. I know this is getting lengthly but what I'm tring to say is when something is done by several people it gets hard to check it all for accuracy, and sometimes they can't be helped. I personally don't care I love Star Wars for Star Wars.
     
  22. KenKenobi

    KenKenobi Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 11, 2002
    DarthDrew: If he did truly gut it and re-do it, why didn't he just order a new ship?

    Slave I was one of a kind, and a very sleek and powerful ship at that. It is like, "I just recieved this one of kind Cadillac from my father, and it is one of the best cars in the world. I didn't like the interior so I replaced it, and the engine wasn't as effective as I would have hoped, so I decided to change that around as well."

    Would you just order a new car? Would you take a stationwagon over this one of a kind Cadillac you got from your father? I doubt it. ;)


    That would have been more cost-effective and would have worked as much more of a cohesive unit.

    No, it wouldn't have. The craft was originally manufactured as a patrol ship, sweeping the space near Oovo IV to prevent prison breaks. Jango stole the ship from Oovo IV and began refitting the ship for his own uses.

    Many of the modifications, performed at Kuat Drive Yards, were designed and supervised by Kuat of Kuat himself. This was partly because of Kuat's innate technical skill, but also so that the leader of KDY could keep an eye on what went into the ship's new form. Slave I's outer hull was reinforced with plating and ray shielding, to compensate for reduced particle shielding. The hull is formed from a magnetically-polarized metal, making it the perfect electromagnetic receptor. This allows the ship to collect magnetic energies from the surrouding space - including the signals and pulses of pursuing ships - and reflect them as so much static. This jams the pursuer's sensors, making Slave I nearly invisible.

    Boba Fett has also dampened the ship's particle vapor trail to further eliminate proof of its passage. The ship appears to bear only a pair of twin-mounted blaster cannons on the tip of the command/cargo section, although rumors abound about hidden ion cannons, concussion missile launchers, and a powerful tractor beam. The ship's engines have been modified for speed. The Kuat Systems Engineering F-31 sublight engines provide an intense burst of power when first activated. This reduces maneuverability but increases the likelihood of Fett's capturing his quarry before it can escape. These are paried with four KSE X-F-16 power generators to provide that burst of speed. The ship's hyperdrive has also been updated, allowing for quick jumps to outrace a victim to their destination. The ship's interior has never been seen, but it is rumored to have a large enough hold to contain a force cage. Various hull reinforcements are also rumored to be present, to keep the cage from being jostled by larger races. There isn't a great deal of cargo space, for much of it has been given over to housing the ship's engines and power generators.



    So, as you can see, Slave I was not your run of the mill ship. It was not only one of a kind and a tribute to his father (and, in turn, Jaster Mereel, which is a key reason in Jango's request of a "son" ;) ), but also one heck of a bounty hunter vessel.

    It is mentioned several times to be a feareed ship, recognizable to Boba Fett himself. The ship is one of the only things he stands for- I doubt he would ever give it up. ;)

    Alternatively, if he ordered a new ship, why didn't this one become Slave II?


    Boba did have a Slave II. ;)

    Here is a description:

    Slave II: Boba Fett's backup ship, this modified MandalMotors Pursuer patrol vehicle was weaker than Slave I, but it served its purpose well after the Alliance confiscated Fett's primary ship. However, what it lacked in punch it made up for in speed and maneuverability. The original engines had been replaced with twin Mil-StarIV engines mated with three x41 maneuvering thrusters mounted in the port-side strut. It had a forward-firing ion and twin blaser cannons, as well as a rear-firing proton torpedo launcher. Slave II also had enhanced sensors, but lacked Slave I's stealth capabilities. Slave
     
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