Lit Star Wars: Dawn of the Jedi (New series by Ostrander and Duursema)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by max-attac, Oct 13, 2011.

  1. Zorrixor Chosen One

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    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Exactly.

    We're still wasting our time with rocket ships, and still need to learn how to use wooden sailing barges in space.
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Nov 26, 2012
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  2. Hero of Tukayyid Jedi Knight

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    Nov 23, 2012
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    Do their starfighters use lasers?
  3. Grey1 Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group

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    A long time ago.... Hey, if it's a long time ago, how do they have lasers.... We don't have lasers. Wait, yes we do. Point Withdrawn....
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  4. Cronal Jedi Grand Master

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    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    KotOR implies that the Vong were scouting as far back as that time even since a story from Canderous talks about how a ship resembling an asteroid opened fire on his vessel with weapons that they had never seen before before departing for parts unknown.... so perhaps even a lot further from then. And we have no idea how long the journey took crossing the void between galaxies. We do know it was a very long time but no specific number. And before that, there were the wars that they had waged that ravaged their home galaxy. So, it was a very very long time ago in my opinion.
  5. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    I didn't read Force Storm #4, so I"m wondering why Xesh killed Tul'kar.
  6. Cronal Jedi Grand Master

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    Dec 17, 2009
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    He ended up remembering he killed Tul'kar but does not remember why. To me, I suspect he was perhaps brainwashed to do so but by who? I thought it was his rival but that guy seemed shocked in the new issue as well. So, maybe that subordinate of Tul'kars?
  7. Ghost Chosen One

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    Oct 13, 2003
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    I think Xesh just wanted to get to the escape pod, to survive, and kill anyone in his way.

    But who sabotaged the ship? I don't think that was Xesh.
  8. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    We all know how the First Great Schism lead to the Sith until NEC said the Second Great Schism lead to the Sith (apparently because they wanted the Sith to form at a later date). Considering that the "First Great Schism" started out as the backstory of the Sith and the 25,000 date was established later on, why didn't they just move the First Great Schism to 7000 BBY?
  9. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    Hadn't Xendor & Arden Lyn's rebellion date already been established as much earlier?
  10. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    Sep 30, 2012
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    No, and even if it had, it hadn't been established to be the "First Great Schism", so they could have said, "Xendor in 25,000 BBY, First Great Schism in 7000 BBY".
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  11. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    I hope they eventually cover King Adas and the Hundred-Year Darkness (whether or not they are part of DOTJ).
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jun 1, 2013
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  12. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    Thank you Esg! Someone finally gets what I've been saying for so long!
  13. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Here's my thoughts on the first story arc. I've just started reading the comics.

    The Force Storm TPB Review

    I admit I wasn't initially interested in the Dawn of the Jedi series. The prospect of finding out about the origins of the Jedi Order didn't particularly tantalize me the way new stories about existing characters did. There was so much going on in the Old Republic and Legacy Eras it seemed silly to have stories set in another one.

    I am pleasantly surprised to say I was mistaken in my assumptions. Dawn of the Jedi is the best Star Wars material I've read in years. It's almost equal to Knights of the Old Republic, which is high praise for anyone who knows my opinion of Zayne Carrick.

    Dawn of the Jedi does something different with the Jedi, which is something I had long despaired of seeing. The Jedi Knights of the DOTJ period are a diverse and multi-faceted lot. They have family troubles, relationship issues, doctrinal differences, and even varying senses of fashion.

    There was a weird moment when I was looking at a couple of Jedi with one of them being a shirtless flirtatious Sith hunk and the other being a sexy blonde with a low-cut outfit. Initially, I thought this was just the comic providing fanservice before I realized these Jedi don't wear robes because the attachment issue (and, by proxy, sex) isn't a big issue.

    Which is the central crux of the setting: that the ancient Jed'aii didn't fear the Dark Side. Much like Luke Skywalker, they are beings who have grown stronger for their association with multiple types of beings and being willing to stretch their philosophical assumptions. Most notably, the Jed'aii believe in Balance rather than the Light Side.

    This has its dangers. There's a couple of parts to the Jed'aii's story which are unsettling. They perform genetic experiments like the ancient Sith to domesticate their animals, they don't think hate is something to stamp out (merely that it has a place and a time), and quite a few of them have a confidence bordering on arrogance. Still, I think I'd like to be part of these guys versus the Jedi proper. Luke should pay a visit to Tython and have a talk with these guys via holocron or surviving offshoot. It would be an interesting book or comic series, to say the least.

    The Force Storm arc has the tough job of not only introducing the new time period but telling a coherent and interesting plot. Thankfully, it manages to pull this off. The first story arc deals with the introduction of Xesh into the Jed'aii's world. Xesh is a force-user raised and trained by the Rakata to be one of their 'Hounds', a figure who seeks force-sensitives for the Infinite Empire to enslave.

    Xesh is an intriguing character because not only is he a Darksider, he's a figure who has grown up in a hellish environment where the Light Side was practically nonexistent. As a result he's unfamilar with mercy, pity, remorse, or other concepts central to a Jedi. Watching him get 'seduced by the Light Side of the Force' and his reaction to these strange concepts is interesting. Likewise, as a Force User totally given to the Dark Side, he represents an ideological challenge for the Balance-seeking Jed'aii.

    The choice of the Rakata as the first major villains of the setting, if not the entire comic series, is inspired. First introduced in Knights of the Old Republic, they represented a fascinating look into the early life of Star Wars' history. While the hammerhead shark-looking aliens are somewhat silly looking, I am amazed at how expressive the artists have been able to make the creatures. They're simultaneously completely given to the Dark Side but somehow more pathetic than the Sith--given to pettiness which undermines their sense of authority. The future Dark Lords have inherited a dignity from their Jed'aii forebearers it seems. I also like their "kill, prey, scavenge" mentality as it fits with a race descended from sharks.

    The lead trio of the comic is also a plus as each of them brings something into the table. We have a member of the original Sith series, who is a cocksure ladies man. We have a beast-riding human female who has issues with her parents' Jed'aii past. We also have the daughter of what passes for the local nobility. They're all fascinating characters and, combined with Xesh, I want to see where they all go storyline-wise.

    I applaud Dark Horse, this was a great idea for a series.

    10/10
    Last edited by Charlemagne19, Sep 12, 2013
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  14. Ulicus Lit'ari

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    Well, the problem with their take on "balance" -- I think -- is enshrined in their very code:

    "In balance with chaos and harmony".

    No, guys. Harmony is balance. And they're gonna have to learn that the hard way.
  15. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

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    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    I think there's room to argue that's a simplified way of saying, "in line between reality and ideals."
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  16. Ulicus Lit'ari

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    Hm. Hadn't considered that. Not bad.
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  17. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    Well, it worked for 10,000 years until the Rakata showed up. It was a good run!
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Sep 12, 2013
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  18. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/2013/09/dawn-of-jedi-into-void-review.html

    I posted this in the review thread and this was my take on the novel. I'm working on my thoughts for "Prisoner of Boggan" now.

    The big thing I liked about "Into the Void" is I think it's the only book to really show the problem of the Jedi Dynasty Vergere complained about and the backstory says became a big issue between "KOTOR" and "TOR" as well as during the Brotherhood of Darkness period. People who are born to Jedi families feel immense pressure to become Jedi Knights themselves and this can result in a lot of people being pushed into roles which they are manifestly unsuited. People think because you have the Force you should use it.

    Cade Skywalker, is a point in question of a man who is forced by destiny to be a Jedi even if he's made it abundantly clear he shouldn't be and doesn't want to be.

    It's kind of sad he gets railroaded into it anyway. The Force shouldn't have to depend on guys who don't want to be their champion.
  19. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Prisoner of Bogan review

    I admit, I was underwhelmed with Into The Void but Force Storm has proven the Dawn of the Jedi setting has great potential. I was eager to plow into the Prisoner of Bogan arc as soon as I finished its predecessor.

    The heart of this story is a trope I'm surprised we haven't seen more of in Star Wars. Basically, someone sees a vision of something bad in the Force and starts taking actions which may or may not make it come about.

    It's a classic plot from Greek mythology, most notably the story of Oedipus, but it isn't limited there. Troy Denning attempted to retcon Jacen Solo's fall into having elements of this but I'm not sure he succeed. I like to think Kreia's fall in Knights of the Old Republic 2 had to do with her farseeing skill revealing the devastation her apprentice would wreck.

    The unlucky seer in Prisoner of Bogan is Daegen Lok. He saw a vision of the Rakata destroying Tython and its people. Daegen Lok found no receptive ears in the Jed'aii Council and ended up getting banished to the moon of Bogan for it.

    Banishment for darksiders was a punishment first introduced in The Courtship of Princess Leia but we haven't seen much of it in the EU. It's cool to see it revisited with a guy who may or may not have actually been corrupt before his banishment. Unfortunately, for our heroes, years of focusing on his vision have driven him crazy. Well, perhaps not crazy, ruthless and obsessed may be a better description. After all, he's lost a lot of time to prepare for the Rakata's now-imminent invasion.

    We get a bit more backstory on the Jed'aii and what they've been doing for the past few decades too. Much like the Mandalorian Wars broadened our understanding of the Jedi in Knights of the Old Republic, so does the Despot Wars do the same for the Jed'aii here. The Barons of one of the settled worlds in the Tython System rose up to destroy the Jed'aii only to get themselves annihilated as a result.

    The losers, having been massacred in the battle, justifiably hold a grudge against those who crushed them. It's a surprisingly realistic source of Anti-Jediism. After all, people usually don't think of themselves as bad guys when they're defeated in a war and these Jedi are pretty ruthless. I admit, I also liked Daegen Lok's causal description of how he defeated the rebels. The Jed'aii are efficient and don't mind getting their hands dirty. I'm fairly sure this method brought a swift end to the war, which might have otherwise devastated the system, but it caused me to put my comic down for a second. I have no doubt the other Jed'aii would have done the same as Lok and that makes them dangerous.

    Xesh's journey continues in Prisoner of Bogan and I'm intrigued by where its headed. The dark-sider is less than thrilled at the Jed'aii's treatment of him as a walking bomb, even if that's close to what he is. The Jed'aii's awe over his lightsaber is also cool, highlighting the monumental moment it is for them to find it.

    There's something fascinating about the fact it was originally not only a Darksiders-only weapon but something used to oppress slaves. The Jed'aii fact the took it, made it their own, and used it to defend the galaxy for 20,000 years is awesome in its symbolism.

    Much of the comic is set-up for later events in the saga but the escape of Daegen and Xesh from Bogan provides an excellent story to keep us occupied until the payoff. Daegen has no hesitation in harming his fellow Jed'aii and that brutality makes us fear for our heroes. The action and emotional conflict is Star Wars at its best.

    If I had one complaint, it's a small one. I'm not fond of the character design of newcomer Trill. She looks like a rock album cover and it kind of undermines her role as the harbinger for the Infinite Empire. This is a small complaint, however, and I enjoy her story. It's a nice deconstruction of the "Morality Pet" trope as you can't pin all of your hopes and dreams on a single person. Because, no matter how good they are, you're bound to be disappointed.

    [IMG]

    Clearly, the Rakata are fond of Image comics. Speaking of visual design, is it just me or is Daegen Lok an evil Jimmy Smitts?

    We get some more information on the Rakata, Jed'aii, and Blue Desert People. I'm kind of disappointed the Blue Desert People's past as "godlike precursors" is being linked to Tython as I was never particularly fond of the retcon they were sentient beings. It seemed to undercut Luke Skywalker's lesson to Isoldor that animals think--even if they don't think like regular beings.

    Still, watching the Jedi learn the history of the Rakata was worth the issue price alone. I will say, in a storyline filled with varying motivations of intricate complexity, it's interesting to learn the Blue Desert People's explanation for why the Rakata went bad boils down to, "they were a bunch of murderous bullies." You have to wonder why they gave the Blue Desert People gave them super-technology and Force powers. You'd think they'd have noticed this quality.

    Oh well, great trade. Buy it.

    10/10
    Last edited by Charlemagne19, Sep 12, 2013
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  20. Solent Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2001
    star 2
    It shouldn´t. But it´s the way nature works. There are Dark Siders, there must be people who deal with them. With Palpatine there wasn´t, so the Force created one. Then the Jedi screwed up royally readying him for his duty (even if he had not fallen, RotS Anakin vs Palpatine could not have been called a fight without insulting Palpy).

    People being pressed into being Jedi is not a congenital issue though, just a cultural mistake (as was kicking out non-sensitives from the planet). There´s no difference between that and Vergere´s time, when children were given away by their parents, severed any contact with them, and were all educated along the same lines of thought. That´s a dinasty, just not a bloodline one. And see how they ended up.

    Malak was right, if 3 people are in a room and 2 are together, the other one will make up something so that they aren´t.
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  21. purplerain Force Ghost

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    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    So psyched for Force Wars!
    Last edited by purplerain, Oct 2, 2013
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  22. Grey1 Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group

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    I suppose EU seldom liked to do mythological and metaphysical stuff. Seeing how visions and the idea of destiny trumping free will are pretty prominent in the prequels, I've seen a lot of complaints about that kind of stuff. Maybe that's because SW usually gets tucked in with SF rather than with fantasy, and people want to take it at face value. The Force and all that Jedi stuff gets a free pass because "it's already been there". But other than that, I suppose fantastical stuff like visions never seemed as important as the basic "star destroyers attack, planetary governments quarrel, heroes go to places" story. Revisiting the Jedi Academy trilogy, the 181st recently pointed out that for all his concentration on Jedi training, the actual Jedi Academy trilogy doesn't really think about Jedi and Force topics beyond quotable movie lines.

    What instances are there of famous visions in plots? Jacen running off saving slaves because of a vision, which was somewhat based on Luke's Dagobah vision. Maybe the "Stand firm" line, or what's been read into Jaina's "sword" title. LOTF as portrayed in Betrayal, of course. But truth be told, looking at the movies, the real irony of causing the vision to come true by trying to avoid it is an invention of ROTS. TPM hints at it with Anakin's offscreen dream/could-have-been-a-vision of becoming a Jedi, but there's no immediate payoff in the story itself. And the Dagobah vision works differently - there's no irony in that one. So maybe the inclusion of the ironic vision is no different than the dependence on attention-grabbing Sith that's risen after ROTS, something that only entered EU stories because the movies offer a clear template?
  23. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    I like the idea which was very briefly broached in Betrayal, Shadows of Mindor, and talked about by Filoni and sort of alluded to in TCW episode "Assasin" in which a Sith can make the future by doing farseeing and then ensuring that happens by working backward to allow the vision to come to pass. Whereas Jedi are reactive, and need to be careful that they don't commit Oedipus' mistake.

    I don't think the prequels are about destiny trumping free will: I think Darth Vader exists specifically because free will trumps destiny. It wasn't Anakin's destiny to become Vader, but his own attempts to subvert his destiny led to him becoming Vader. He knew he had to kill the Sith Lord as the Chosen One, but did not want to do so in order to save Padme, and consequently became Darth Vader.
  24. blackmyron Force Ghost

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    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    I think that's it more that the EU tends to have a number of different characters - and more importantly, authors - with different views on the Force. Truce At Bakura has an odd view of a 'balanced' universe, for instance, as does Rogue Planet. And while the JAT doesn't go into it much, I, Jedi has a lot of interesting things to say about the Force (including having a sect of "good" Sith, or something like that)
    As far as visions, go, I've always found the vision of Qui-Gon at Dagobah with Anakin from the CW micro-series to be rather intriguing.
  25. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5

    Lets make that evilish Jedi ;)
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